Trying to add things to the wiki, keep being undone?

[SweetDaggerfall]

Hi, i've tried to edit a few things over the last week (once before i was a member and once after) to improve the info that i found incomplete, and each time they seem to get undone. I'm a morrowind player/modder(lite) of 10 years or so with quite alot of experience in the game (still playing my massively modded morrowind game currently).

Ok first up i see the whole 'TES3Mods' section has been changed. There were dead links (like to the mod site ElricM's and to Wrye Mash etc) which i fixed, and i added one link as a replacement for the now dead ElricM's, 'Morrowind Modding History'. PES is on it's way out too by all accounts, so i thought having at least one working link for Morrowind players to get mods from might be a 'good' thing. Apparently not.

Anyway i also yesterday added the 'Fix' to the 'red-ring sticking to screen' effect that was mentioned in the 'Tes3Mod:Engine Bugs' section under 'Vampire/Red Damage Ring' (it is a simple edit in the Morrowind ini file (showhitfaders=0)), and would fit in the 'Glitches' section under 'See Red', this edit had also been removed.

So what is the deal here? do people want the Morrowind section to be updated and dead links fixed, do they want it to be a place where current Morrowind gamers can come and get handy information?

I realise it might be possible my edits (while not negative or incorrect) involved stepping on someones territory, and so they decided to remove my contributions out of that principle. If not then please inform me of my transgression and maybe we can resolve this? If so then good luck, the morrowind section is lacking and YOU could do with updating it.

All the best.

SweetDaggerfall

[Musicman247]

Went ahead and moved this to the Wiki sub-forum since it's about the wiki.

Have you checked the "History" tab on the pages you have edited? It will show you all of he changes made to the page, including if someone reverted your changes.

Have you registered for an account or are you just editing anonymously? You should register if you haven't already. Being a regular user will make your edits carry a little more weight, plus it will allow the wiki admins to contact you about your edits and let you know if you're doing something they would prefer you didn't and why.

[AKB]

You may want to check to see if your edits were actually undone first. Neither edit under the account name "SweetDaggerfall" have been reverted. In fact, you are still the top edit on Tes3Mod:Engine Bugs. You may want to ensure you were logged in when you checked to see your addition, as caching is slower for logged out users (you'll sometimes see older versions of pages). Regardless, I've purged the pages cache and you should be able to see your addition logged in or out.

As for your anonymous edits, I can find no evidence of them ever occurring. Take a look at the history of editions to Tes3Mod over the last month, I can't find your editions anywhere in this list. The only explanation I can provide is that they weren't saved to the wiki. I'm going to guess it had to do with you adding external links while editing anonymously. When you try to add an external link without at least being an autoconfirmed user (a user with an account who has been around for at least four days and made ten edits), you'll be forced to enter a captcha before your edit is saved. That's just one possible explanation, though. The point is that the edit was not saved on our end, so we never reverted it. Sorry about you losing your work, as someone who habitually user multiple tabs, and constantly closes them when I want a different tab, I've lost my own work a number of times due to my own mistakes.

I hope that answered your question, SweetDaggerfall. No one has reverted your work, and improvements to the Tes3Mod section are entirely welcome. We try to avoid users treating pages as their "territory" here, though it happens occasionally (often earning them a sharp reprisal). But that's simply not the case here, for any of your editions, as far as I can see.

Also, Musicman, we are entirely capable of contacting anonymous users if necessary. And as a rule, we're not supposed to treat anonymous users differently than users with accounts. This is one of the things people slip up on a lot, but we're supposed to treat them as a regular user, just without an account. Please consider giving me or any of the other wiki editors a bit of time to answer questions first before offering your own advice, so we can be sure they receive accurate information if we can provide it, without contradictory information.

[legoless]

Also, Musicman, we are entirely capable of contacting anonymous users if necessary. And as a rule, we're not supposed to treat anonymous users differently than users with accounts. This is one of the things people slip up on a lot, but we're supposed to treat them as a regular user, just without an account.

That may be policy, but, in practice, IP edits are usually put under more scrutiny (although that's probably coincidental, since an anonymous user would likely be less familiar with the wiki's style). Registering is always a better alternative, especially since some people have dynamic/shared IPs, making contacting them via talk page impractical.

[AKB]

It is almost always better to register for an account, if you want to edit on a regular basis. However, anonymous and registered users are still treated roughly the same way. That was my point. While there is some degree of more cordial treatment to long-time users over anonymous users, unless the IP address happens to have a long enough history that the user behind it starts to get known (and they'll likely receive a formal invitation to create an account by that point). My point holds up either way, in this case. We can still contact you, even if you are anonymous (though it is harder as your IP can change as you pointed out, making it basically impossible to guarantee contact with them), and this user would of been treated the same way regardless of their actions as they wouldn't of even made enough edits to become autoconfirmed (by which I mean by the wiki's automatic systems, which I guessed blocked his edit with a captcha). A new user and an anonymous user are watched just as closely as the other. They are under more scrutiny simply because most long-time users simply don't require in-depth investigation into their actions on a regular basis.

By the time you become a regular user, you probably already know most of the workings and practices of the wiki by heart, so there isn't much reason for extreme oversight. But even then, a regular user who is slipping up on something will receive just the same treatment as a new user (a message pointing out the error, and usually instructions on how to fix or avoid it). It's just that the user giving the message will know them a little better.

Yes, it is true people can be a bit quicker to jump on new or anonymous users for mistakes (especially if they are rude, and they refuse to cease the behavior after being asked to stop), but I find that it has been happening much less recently then before, so treatment of new and anonymous users isn't that different from the regulars once you think about it. The reason I told Music about the policy is because he may simply not know it, as he doesn't really edit that much (I believe he has made one or two edits, and was blocked indefinitely for a little while due to them). Registering is great if you want to (and this user has), but it's in no way required, especially for better treatment.

And this isn't really the point of this topic either way, I was really just trying to make it clear as to why we should get the chance to respond first to posts in this sub-forum. Sorry for the derail.

[SweetDaggerfall]

@AKB and other Admins,

First thanks for moving this to the correct place, i AM still a newbie here so need that kind of guidance. And sorry if i sounded a bit terse in my original post. It was just frustrating to see my correct (if not tell me why) edits removed, while i can also understand those that just screw things up having their edits removed.

Anyway i was very happy with Musicman247's reply and quick response, so no need for any trouble over all that from my point of view.

However there is still an issue here it seems. The link you gave in your first reply to the section about 'Engine bugs' and the red-ring effect from vampirism does indeed show my (two!) edits to that part. So what about this:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Engine_Bugs

It seems my edit is not on the actual section at all. So i'm a bit confused by this, as i clean out my cache after every internet session, so i don't think it is a case of that. Anyone else also see that my edit is not in that link? And i get to this site by typing 'Morrowind wiki' in my search engine and clicking the main UESP wiki link, then navigate to the relevant section. So....seems odd?

As for the edit i did when i had no account (so it logged my IP, and i did check the history and saw that it had done so etc) well i can find no reference of that either.

All i can say, and i may be a little hazy on the exact detail, is that 4 or 5 days ago, when you were in the Morrowind section, and looking through the info on either Mods or Modding, it had a lot of info that contained outdated links to sites like ElricM's and a Wrye Mash link that was dead (so i fixed it and i think the current working link to Wrye Mash is that same one i used?).

I do remember needing to enter the captcha phrase when not an account holder, and i do remember checking the history revisions to see that it had logged my IP (which i wasn't happy about, thus the account sign up, but i know why it is needed).

Anyway ALL that info that was in those Morrowind Modding sections seems to have changed, so much so those pages now look very different, and currently there are NO links to anywhere other than a PES one to get morrowind mods from, lots of individual links for certain mods, but not to a generic mod collection site (such as ElricM's used to be), which was why a i added the one for Morrowind Modding History.

Anyway if you can see evidence of these kind of edits in the logs and maybe find out if someone is in the middle of a large scale reorganization of the Morrowind Mods sections maybe, and work out why i'm not seeing the edits i made as SweetDaggerfall, then i can work out if it is worth my time trying to help here at a later date? It may just need a little time to see what this is all about etc.

thanks for the replies and guidance guys, much appreciated

[Musicman247]

I see the edit you made: http://puu.sh/1tsLE

The cache they are referring to is not your internet browser cache, but the Wiki page cache (if I'm not mistaken). Either way, your edit it showing up for me.

[SweetDaggerfall]

Aha! yes i can now see it also. Ok so there might be some small delay to see it come through into the wiki? I can live with that, and thanks all for the help. I'll wait and see what reorganization is currently going on in the Morrowind Mods/Modding sections before adding any useful links to all that.

Now i got to get back to my quest to find a cure for corprus in a silt strider at Khuul (yes, i have no idea which mod added that one)

[Bauglir100]

I'm dealing with the same problem: Every time I try to contribute something to the Wiki, someone feels the need to completely undo what I did. Even if it's legit information from a canon source or it doesn't necessarily contradict something that happened in-universe, people feel the need to declare it "speculation" or "not noteworthy" and 100% undo it. Even my messages on discussion pages are being deleted.

So what's everyone else's beef with me? I'm just trying to contribute to the Wiki like everyone else, but it seems like nobody wants me to do so. Sure, I may have done some dumb stuff on this Wiki in the past, but there's no need to hold a grudge against me because of it. I bet if anyone else contributed the stuff I did, those people would welcome it with open arms.

[Deandra]

Did you read the thread, Bauglir? Nobody is reverting SweetDaggerfall's changes; rather, it can take pages a while to update (longer if you're not logged in).

[Bauglir100]

Uh...did you read my post? I was talking about my own problems! This is what I'm talking about. Every other user on the Wiki seems to be treating me like some crazy idiot, and treat my edits accordingly. And I want to know why I'm being treated like that.

[Rook]

Check your talk page on the wiki, WoahBro explained what you're doing wrong.