Disappearing quest people?

[Mishell]

So I'm determined to get through this game, I really am. I finally struggled all the way through Arena (which became much easier though still tedious once I got invisibility/spell absorption), but Daggerfall is just making me insane. I'm playing the DaggerfallSetup version by the way.

As a mage I'm pretty much insta-death at level 3 in any kind of combat (though I did manage to get out of the starter dungeon), so what I've been trying to do is save and reload until I get non-combat or combat-light quests from temple or mages' guild. I finally got a promising quest, an exorcism of a little boy, but when I went back to the town where the little boy was supposed to be, I made the mistake (I guess) of saving while inside his home. When I returned, his home was renamed "residence" and he was no longer there. Yes, I am 100% sure it was the same place, because they didn't erase the original name, just wrote "residence" right over it on the map.

I tried reloading an earlier save right before I got the temple quest (I had reloaded this save a billion times with no issues) and now the lady at the temple who was formerly giving quests is also gone. In a save game where she appeared multiple times before.

WHAT IS HAPPENING? Is there any point in my even continuing this game? I know the dungeons are hell but once I was high enough level not to insta-die in combat I was going to try to chip away at them for the sake of completion. But if the game is so buggy that even when I do things cautiously I can't make any progress, I don't know what to do. Any advice?

[MrFlibble]

Well, Daggerfall is indeed known to have serious, near game breaking bugs, some of which might still occur even with all official and unofficial fixes installed. The only way around is to know that they exist, and avoid the conditions which cause them (if possible).

Playing as a mage, you need to get the maximum out of your magic school skills. Play around a bit with the Spell Maker and get some custom attack and healing spells that will work without instantly draining your magicka. There are some good hints regarding the custom spells here in the wiki. Complement that with using a blunt weapon, because it seems like blunt weapons are a bit more effective than blades when the skill in either is low. Especially since mages have no skill in long blades, and you can acquire a quite powerful blunt weapon (flail or war hammer) relatively early on.

Also don't worry if you fail a side-quest. Of course it does ruin the role-playing experience somewhat when a quest is failed because of some unexpected bug, but if you lower your expectations a bit you'll find that Daggerfall is highly enjoyable and has enough depth even with all the shortcomings.

One more thing about combat: be sure to dodge the enemies by running in and out of their range while fighting. Daggerfall is simply not a game where you can just stand near the enemy and hit at it. This strategy is quite manageable even with the not very convenient weapon control system, although it certainly requires a bit of practice.

[Mishell]

Thanks for the good advice! Since I didn't get very far I may start over with a blunt weapon (I had actually skilled up quite a bit in short blade just by default). I already have been using the low-cost practice spells (that's the only way I managed to get to level 3, since I can't kill anything).

Nobody else knows any workaround for the disappearing NPC thing, though? Or what I did to cause it? That's honestly the main thing that's discouraging me, because it has happened more than once, and always on the only quests that I was strong enough to finish.

Should I just not even bother taking quests until I am higher level? I'm worried about running out of money when I do the spell-practice grind thing, because I have to rest at inns for weeks at a time to make that work.

Also, any other bugs I should know about and avoid? I tried to find a master list, but didn't really see a comprehensive one.

[MrFlibble]

Nobody else knows any workaround for the disappearing NPC thing, though? Or what I did to cause it?

In this particular quest, are you sure it is a bug and not the intended behaviour? I vaguely remember this quest, and the disappearing character might be an unexpected "plot twist" that is part of the story. You can try asking NPCs about the quest-related people and locations, and if still not sure, just head to the quest description section here at the wiki and check what is supposed to happen in the quest.

Also, any other bugs I should know about and avoid? I tried to find a master list, but didn't really see a comprehensive one.

Apart from the Wiki here, this is a nice list of bugs. Another Daggerfall related place to visit is The Daggerfall Embassy, which also lists some bugs and secrets, and has a nice selection of links to other notable websites about the game.

[Mishell]

Thanks for the links! And yes, definitely a bug or glitch. The NPCs name also disappears out of the conversation options, and the word "Residence" is literally written right on top of "Hartman Residence" or whatever the quest house was before the bug. Irritating. I have a sneaking suspicion it's because I saved while in the quest house - I sometimes have weird issues with items or people disappearing if I save right before I need them, and I have vague memories of a similar issue with lockpicking years ago when I tried to play as a thief; I seem to recall that something odd happened if I tried saving right before the attempt. It's almost as if the game is trying to stop me from continually resaving until I get the right result...

[MrFlibble]

Have you tried running FIXSAVE on your saved game? (JIC, get the latest version here).

It's almost as if the game is trying to stop me from continually resaving until I get the right result...

BTW, you mentioned in your first post that you were re-loading a saved game to get a good quest. I think I read somewhere that you don't actually lose any rep with quest givers if you decline a quest offer, but I can't be sure ATM.

[Mishell]

Ooh, I'll try that fixsave thing before I give up. Thanks!

[Mishell]

So I've started over with Daggerfall and was doing better this time around after reading more various advice and so on (just switching to View mode under mouse settings was tremendously helpful), but now I've run into a new problem that wasn't happening on my first playthrough.

For some reason, now whenever I get a quest that sends me to a place that sounds like a dungeon (person doing research at a remote location, person who needs to be brought back from certain ruins because he's gone crazy, item that needs to be found, etc.) - when I travel to the place named, it dumps me in the middle of randomly generated wilderness with no buildings in sight.

What is happening?!? This has happened with three completely different locations on three completely different quests now; in fact on this playthrough I have yet to successfully find a single dungeon while on a quest. This did not happen on the first playthrough - when they gave me those sorts of locations I'd always show up and find a big fortress or something standing right there.

[Norva]

Not all dungeons are giant castle ruins and the like. Some dungeons have entrances that are just little green hills with a door, like this:





So if you get one of those, sometimes it isn't readily apparent and you have to walk forwards a bit to see it.

[Mishell]

Oooooooooh! Thank you! Super helpful!!

[Mishell]

Hey, remember me?

All new problem. I have the "disappearing quest item" bug in the main quest, and a Daggerfall guide thingie tells me to use "fixsave" and try the dungeon again, but I actually have no idea how to get to the proper dos prompt to enter the command since I used DaggerfallSetup and I just go straight to the game from Windows when I double-click the icon.

I'm doing the "find Mynisera's letters" quest, and I followed the guide through all the possible quest object locations and it was not at any of them. And yes, I searched thoroughly at each location. There were treasure piles but they just contained various useless loot.

Having actually never once found a quest object in a dungeon, I suppose it's possible I'm doing something terribly wrong and have no idea what a quest object should look like. But I strongly suspect I'm bugged, and would like to try fixsave. Can anyone help?

EDIT TO ADD: Also - I keep hearing about a "cheat mode" that lets you use the ] key to cycle through all possible quest object locations. I would give my left arm for this feature - anyone know how to make it work?

[MrFlibble]

All new problem. I have the "disappearing quest item" bug in the main quest, and a Daggerfall guide thingie tells me to use "fixsave" and try the dungeon again, but I actually have no idea how to get to the proper dos prompt to enter the command since I used DaggerfallSetup and I just go straight to the game from Windows when I double-click the icon.

Well, using FIXSAVE might actually be the only option to fix your problem.

I have never used DaggerfallSetup so I don't know how DOSBox is configured there. There are actually at least two different ways of making DOSBox start the game as soon as you load it: one is to have the necessary commands in the properties of the Windows shortcut, and another is to store commands inside the DOSBox configuration file (dosbox.conf).

To check which method is used, open dosbox.conf (it should be in the same folder as the DOSBox executable, although it is not necessarily so) and scroll all the way down to the [autoexec] section. If it says something there like

Code: Select all

cd DAGGER
DAGGER.EXE

or

Code: Select all

cd DAGGER
FALL.EXE Z.CFG

then the game is launched via the second method (autoexec commands inside dosbox.conf).

As for the cheatmode, it is explained here.

[Gilarius]

In addition to Mr Flibble's excellent advice, one of the reasons for NPCs (quest givers etc) within guilds/shops disappearing is simply the time of day.

If you sleep inside eg the fighters' guild, all of the NPCs stay present, regardless of the time of day. If you leave, or reload a save, however, they will disappear if the time is one where the guild/shop is normally shut. This makes it very easy to rob stores, if you are that way inclined. And once you are high enough rant for the mages' guild to always be open for you, the NPCs don't disappear.

FIXSAVE is indeed excellent, but to run it you'll need to learn a bit about how DOSbox works (which is based on DOS, of course, which in turn was rubbish. Try making Ultima 7 pt 2 work on an old 486 running dos6.22 if you really want to become an expert...)

[Adda]

Another reason for disappearing quest people is too fast processors, the game is much less buggy on a PC with a CPU of less then 450MHz running Win98.
Also, ALWAYS save before accepting a quest, always do this, during the quest it's best only to save while outside, as saving and sometimes also reloading inside a house, dungeon or similar, may cause certain NPC's to disappear.
If a quest related object or person disappears, or wasn't there to begin with, reload before you got the quest and try again.

[ZeroMagicka]

The randomly disappearing quest objects is annoying, partly because the dungeons are just so big that you can waste a lot of time before being sure you didn't do something wrong! However, wandering around a dungeon is in of itself enough to get me gear, money and skill increases. The main reason it irks me is ranking delays, otherwise it's just sort of an anticlimactic dungeon.