Picking a favorite offensive skill

[logansrun]

So which one of three "primary" offensive skills do you prefer and why? Or do you depend on some other strategy (i.e. Conjuration and Summoning of "pets" to do the dirty work of fighting or maybe Archery, Stealth, etc.)?

Personally, I think I prefer Destruction simply due to the sheer versatility.
1 It can be wielded either one-hand, two-hand or dual-cast (perk).
One-handed can be used for the lighter opponents leaving the off-hand free for whatever. Two-handed can be brought to bear on tougher opponents while either still raises the same skill.
2 Bypasses armor
3 Shock affects almost everything
4 Works at range
5 No "adjustments" or guesswork needed to aim (such as archery)

The obvious drawbacks are that it's Magicka dependant, while you can swing a weapon all day, and some of the spells travel slower than others, etc.

[Raynil dralas]

In terms of what I find most destructive and easiest? Two-handed, my old battlemage would only use spells because damnit I was a battlemage! but realistically I was two-handed that brought the pain.

[logansrun]

but realistically I was two-handed that brought the pain.

Ok, I hope you don’t mind if I challenge or question that assertion. Max damage for any given Expert Destruction spell with appropriate perks (Augmented and Dual Cast) gives base damage of both spells (120) overcharged (+10%) and Augmented (+50%) does almost 200 damage by my calculations. I use Expert because you can’t “dual-cast” Master level spells (they already require the use of both hands), and I have no idea if they benefit from the Augmented perks.

Now, a Legendary tempered Dragonbone Warhammer has the highest base damage and at max two-handed skill (100) and all appropriate perks maxes out at pretty much exactly the same damage. The obvious benefit to Destruction is I only need to achieve level 75 Destruction magic and a few perks to do that damage where you have to have 100 Two-Handed AND Smithing and all the attendant perks. The only way to do more would be to enchant the weapon, which would then require Enchanting.

[Snail's Pace]

Archery + Alchemy + Sneak. My characters are always good at killing things with poisoned arrows. And they're always sneaking about.

I've never even played a straight-ahead Warrior type character in a TES game. Fallout, either.

Edit: Voted for Archery since the other two I mentioned aren't pure offensive skills.

[Raynil dralas]

but realistically I was two-handed that brought the pain.

Ok, I hope you don’t mind if I challenge or question that assertion. Max damage for any given Expert Destruction spell with appropriate perks (Augmented and Dual Cast) gives base damage of both spells (120) overcharged (+10%) and Augmented (+50%) does almost 200 damage by my calculations. I use Expert because you can’t “dual-cast” Master level spells (they already require the use of both hands), and I have no idea if they benefit from the Augmented perks.

Now, a Legendary tempered Dragonbone Warhammer has the highest base damage and at max two-handed skill (100) and all appropriate perks maxes out at pretty much exactly the same damage. The obvious benefit to Destruction is I only need to achieve level 75 Destruction magic and a few perks to do that damage where you have to have 100 Two-Handed AND Smithing and all the attendant perks. The only way to do more would be to enchant the weapon, which would then require Enchanting.

Yeah but if your duel casting expert spells without cost reduction enchantments you run out of magika real quick.... I can swing that stick around all day.

[logansrun]

Archery + Alchemy + Sneak. My characters are always good at killing things with poisoned arrows. And they're always sneaking about.

I've never even played a straight-ahead Warrior type character in a TES game. Fallout, either.

Yeah, that gets ugly. Max damage for Legendary tempered Dragonbone Bow and Arrows is 145 (120+25). Add in the Sneak x3 multiplier for 435 damage and I have no idea how much you can add with custom crafted poisons and perks, nor do I have the inclination to try to figure that out. Start adding in the faction specific and specialty gear that boosts archery and it just gets uglier.

The only thing worse is dual-wield dagger sneak attacks. The damage for Legendary tempered Dragonbone Daggers is 72 each. Dual wielding bumps it up to 144 and the x15 Sneak multiplier from level 50 sneaking perk bumps the damage up to 2160 total, sans enchantments, applied poisons or any specialty gear like the Shrouded Gloves that double it again.

Yep, that would be 4,320 from one successful dual-wield dagger sneak attack. Sorry, that’s just sick.

Yeah but if your duel casting expert spells without cost reduction enchantments you run out of magika real quick.... I can swing that stick around all day.

tru dat, but the fact is we do have the option to eliminate casting cost with 0 magicka cost gear enchants meaning I could easily be running around with 0 casting cost Destruction equipment lobbing those high level destructions spells indefinitely as well.

[Raynil dralas]

Archery + Alchemy + Sneak. My characters are always good at killing things with poisoned arrows. And they're always sneaking about.

I've never even played a straight-ahead Warrior type character in a TES game. Fallout, either.

Yeah, that gets ugly. Max damage for Legendary tempered Dragonbone Bow and Arrows is 145 (120+25). Add in the Sneak x3 multiplier for 435 damage and I have no idea how much you can add with custom crafted poisons and perks, nor do I have the inclination to try to figure that out. Start adding in the faction specific and specialty gear that boosts archery and it just gets uglier.

The only thing worse is dual-wield dagger sneak attacks. The damage for Legendary tempered Dragonbone Daggers is 72 each. Dual wielding bumps it up to 144 and the x15 Sneak multiplier from level 50 sneaking perk bumps the damage up to 2160 totpal, sans enchantments, applied poisons or any specialty gear like the Shrouded Gloves that double it again.

Yep, that would be 4,320 from one successful dual-wield dagger sneak attack. Sorry, that’s just sick.

Yeah but if your duel casting expert spells without cost reduction enchantments you run out of magika real quick.... I can swing that stick around all day.

tru dat, but the fact is we do have the option to eliminate casting cost with 0 magicka cost gear enchants meaning I could easily be running around with 0 casting cost Destruction equipment lobbing those high level destructions spells indefinitely as well.

But you have to put more points into more things and level up more stuff to make it viable, two handed is easier to make powerful. My battlemage is a great example, its a hybrid build yet for the most part even though i didn't put as much effort into it two handed easily outclassed destruction.

[logansrun]

Sorry, I’m just not seeing it. Two-Handed can only match Destruction in terms of damage if you max out and perk up both Smithing and Two-handed weapon skills. The only way it beats Destruction is with the addition of enchantments or poisons. Destruction magic has the same option for enchanting for duration that weapons do for extra bonus damage, plus Destruction weighs nothing and works at range so to me it’s a bit of a wash. You get the same unlimited damage effect (minus armor) from Smithing and Two-Handed that Destruction plus Enchanting yields, minus the range and weight advantage so either way Destruction still gets and has the advantage. Oh, and Destruction “power attacks” (dual-casting) and stagger (Impact perk) don’t rely on Stamina.

[Raynil dralas]

You can add a reasonable amount of damage with only a few perks and an average enchantment skill, you need a really high skill to be able to get decent cost reduction and i never level characters high enough to get to that stage so for me personally two-handed>destruction. Other players will have a different experience, the thread is favorite not best.

[noobishlord]

Punching things with Khajiit claws is a particular favorite of mine. And some of the more interesting humanoid kill-cams come from unarmed beat-downs.

Though if I have to choose a skill, Archery. There's something oh-so-satisfying about sniping something in the groinkneeface from long range after carefully positioning yourself and aiming for just the right location. Plus, unlike all other forms of attack, there is no way to make it unlimited (though in practice, you can have a LOT of arrows and have effectively unlimited ammo for a given quest.) So if you miss and keep wasting your shots, you're going to be outta luck.

[logansrun]

Other players will have a different experience, the thread is favorite not best.

Yeah, I know, but there are definite reasons why I favor Destruction. Standing alone on their own merits (perks) Two-handed doesn’t match Destruction damage without other skills being brought to bear. Destruction has the advantage of more damage, no weight, ranged attacks and versatility with Magicka being the only limiting factor. Two-handed power attack perks might make up the difference, but that’s equally limited by Stamina.

[Raynil dralas]

Other players will have a different experience, the thread is favorite not best.

Yeah, I know, but there are definite reasons why I favor Destruction. Standing alone on their own merits (perks) Two-handed doesn’t match Destruction damage without other skills being brought to bear. Destruction has the advantage of more damage, no weight, ranged attacks and versatility with Magicka being the only limiting factor. Two-handed power attack perks might make up the difference, but that’s equally limited by Stamina.

If your talking about the skills on their own without any additions from other skill trees I still gotta say 2 handed, without 0% cost enchantments your gonna run out of magicka really quickly, with 2 handed even if you run out of stamina the base attacks are still pretty strong. If your out of magicka you cant do a damn thing, it might provide higher base damage but you can't keep it up for long and most high level monsters will easily survive a round of destruction spells.

[logansrun]

Oh, crap. After seeing some of the responses, I decided to add Archery to the poll. I didn’t realize it would reset the poll. I was just going to allow the option to change your vote again if you preferred Archery. Sorry ‘bout that so please recast your votes.

[Raynil dralas]

I love destruction magic btw I just found it takes a lot more effort to be good than other TES games and than other offensive options in skyrim.

[logansrun]

I gotta admit, I recently played an Orc and found it extremely satisfying. I only really had three skills to manage and they were all Combat skills so the Warrior Stone made leveling a snap. They were Two-Handed, Heavy Armor and Smithing. Aside from a couple applications of Resto, I completely ignored Magic. I actually kept every spell tome I came across in a “junk” drawer in my home at Lakeview Manor. I got wrecked by a couple bosses on the first pass at a couple quests, namely, the giant during Cursed Tribe and the Steam Centurion recovering Grimsever for Mjoll (basically, a metal giant). Berserk quickly remedied that situation. Damn that was fun!

[Raynil dralas]

I gotta admit, I recently played an Orc and found it extremely satisfying. I only really had three skills to manage and they were all Combat skills so the Warrior Stone made leveling a snap. They were Two-Handed, Heavy Armor and Smithing. Aside from a couple applications of Resto, I completely ignored Magic. I actually kept every spell tome I came across in a “junk” drawer in my home at Lakeview Manor. I got wrecked by a couple bosses on the first pass at a couple quests, namely, the giant during Cursed Tribe and the Steam Centurion recovering Grimsever for Mjoll (basically, a metal giant). Berserk quickly remedied that situation. Damn that was fun!

I rarely use 2 handed because it often doesn't suit my builds but I always find it great fun when I do, there's something immensely satisfying about hitting something with a sword the size of a lamppost. I find it too hard to make a build that doesn't use magic these days though, its my favorite type of skill.

[Dark Spark]

Archery. Less of Sneak/Alchemy and more of "Stand on the tallest ledge you can find and send down your pain like a deity of the rain."

[Evil-i]

Archery all day, every day.

I don't wish to offend, but I've always found the whole "magic" thing silly as hell. The game just feels a ton more enjoyable for me when I play with "real" abilities and skills.

[all_freed]

Sword and shield is my fav. I don't enchant my weapon so that I can use Elemental Fury. Just run in there, knock em all down then chop chop chop. :p

[Snail's Pace]

Archery. Less of Sneak/Alchemy and more of "Stand on the tallest ledge you can find and send down your pain like a deity of the rain."

That's where I really miss another skill that complemented archers: Acrobatics.

[Varyag]

I love the archery in Skyrim. There's is something in just sneaking and taking them out before they even know you're there. Of course, whacking someone with very big axe is satisfying too (That would be my favourite infor Oblivion skills). For some reason, I never really mastered the archery back in Oblivion-game.

[logansrun]

Wow, so many Archery fans. I'd have never guessed, but I suppose it makes sense in a way considering it's human nature to avoid direct confrontation if and whenever possible as part of our survival instinct. Maybe I should have just broken down the poll between melee and ranged combat styles. Melee consisting of one and two handed weapons and ranged consisting or archery and destruction magic. Either way, I still suspect that it would have ended up weighted in favor of ranged combat as it’s generally “safer”. That's why we evolved from the weaponry from the flint knife and stone club to the spear to the bow and arrow, etc. Oh, and yeah, I agree. Archery in Oblivion was "clunky" at best. Skyrim's rendition is much more integrated, seamless and smoother.

[noobishlord]

Wow, so many Archery fans. I'd have never guessed, but I suppose it makes sense in a way considering it's human nature to avoid direct confrontation if and whenever possible as part of our survival instinct. Maybe I should have just broken down the poll between melee and ranged combat styles. Melee consisting of one and two handed weapons and ranged consisting or archery and destruction magic. Either way, I still suspect that it would have ended up weighted in favor of ranged combat as it’s generally “safer”. That's why we evolved from the weaponry from the flint knife and stone club to the spear to the bow and arrow, etc. Oh, and yeah, I agree. Archery in Oblivion was "clunky" at best. Skyrim's rendition is much more integrated, seamless and smoother.

I also think it has something to do with how powerful Archery is in Skyrim. In Oblivion, say, despite the mobility Acrobatics and Athletics provided, Archery was somewhat weak. Very short-ranged compared to what you can do in Skyrim. On the flip side, Destruction Magic is MUCH more powerful in Oblivion thanks to spell creation than it is in Skyrim, so that causes points to decrease Skyrim side since we came from such a powerful skill to such a relatively weak one. The only way to really get a lot of power out of Destruction in Skyrim is to cheese it with the Impact perk and enchanting for unlimited spell-casting.

As for the basic melee combat styles, well, they have been tried and true throughout the series. The only thing really special that Skyrim brought was the power of dual-wielding. After a while melee combat gets a little old. Always effective, yes, but old. Plus all those blasted dragons that refuse to land and fight us tooth and claw. We have to adapt, we have to use range power.

This is, of course, assuming a clean game, no mods messing with the numbers and the like.

[logansrun]

The only way to really get a lot of power out of Destruction in Skyrim is to cheese it with the Impact perk and enchanting for unlimited spell-casting.

but ... I like cheese!



lol, anyway, I agree with most of what you posted except possibly the power levels involved being a deciding factor considering the most powerful attack in the game is dual-wield dagger sneak attack with the right gear, skills and perks can range into thousands of points of damage versus hundreds of points of damage for pretty much all others, again sans custom enchantments and poisons, so why wouldn't that be the most preferred method considering it's reliability?

(Mastered Sneak is pretty bloody reliable. I went with the Imperials in Helgen once and used the Torturer for sneak attack practice only to discover he constantly regens health and never turns hostile as long as I remained undetected. I Legendaried Sneak 5 times or so and escaped Helgen with 100 Sneak, max perks, level 51 and a couple iron daggers. That's how you break Skyrim.)

Oh, and beside the Shrouded gloves that give dual wield dagger sneak attacks double damage, the Orc's Berserk racial ability doubles that again, so Sneak Assassin's Blade perk gives x15, Shrouded Gloves make it x30 and the Orc racial ability makes it x60.



That's OP as it gets!

[Mattbott]

Archery + Alchemy + Sneak. My characters are always good at killing things with poisoned arrows. And they're always sneaking about.

I've never even played a straight-ahead Warrior type character in a TES game. Fallout, either.

Edit: Voted for Archery since the other two I mentioned aren't pure offensive skills.

same here, i enjoy sneaking around because you get to see more of the world. for some reason my 2 handed charging-in and hitting stye heroes seem to spend a lot larger slice of their time looking at the inventory screens as they go looting dead bodies