What makes you mad in Skyrim?

[Sirocco]

Cant kill Delphine.
Cant kill Esbern.
Cant torture Delphine to death in the assassins lair.
Cant torture Esbern to death.
Cant slaughter Delphine's family, or anyone she cares for.
Cant slaughter Esbern's family, or anyone he cares for.
Cant [&@%!] on the corps of... eh you know the drill.

Also the Black-briars, every Thieve's guild memeber, Serana, and Jarl Balgruuf the greater.

[Spark]

Cant kill Delphine.
Cant kill Esbern.
Cant torture Delphine to death in the assassins lair.
Cant torture Esbern to death.
Cant slaughter Delphine's family, or anyone she cares for.
Cant slaughter Esbern's family, or anyone he cares for.
Cant [&@%!] on the corps of... eh you know the drill.

Edgy.

[Sirocco]

Nah I just hate with passion.
And maybe played too much postal.

[Raynil dralas]

Cant kill Delphine.
Cant kill Esbern.
Cant torture Delphine to death in the assassins lair.
Cant torture Esbern to death.
Cant slaughter Delphine's family, or anyone she cares for.
Cant slaughter Esbern's family, or anyone he cares for.
Cant [&@%!] on the corps of... eh you know the drill.

Also the Black-briars, every Thieve's guild memeber, Serana, and Jarl Balgruuf the greater.

I never understood why everyone has such a hissy fit about delphine and esbern? is it because they want you to kill parthanax? is that literally the only issue?

[spin]

Cant kill Delphine.
Cant kill Esbern.
Cant torture Delphine to death in the assassins lair.
Cant torture Esbern to death.
Cant slaughter Delphine's family, or anyone she cares for.
Cant slaughter Esbern's family, or anyone he cares for.
Cant [&@%!] on the corps of... eh you know the drill.

Also the Black-briars, every Thieve's guild memeber, Serana, and Jarl Balgruuf the greater.

I never understood why everyone has such a hissy fit about delphine and esbern? is it because they want you to kill parthanax? is that literally the only issue?

no there are several issues with them. they are supposed to serve the dragonborn, but they want to boss you around and never listen to anything you say. then there's the whole stupid go after the Thalmor at every chance instead of worrying about Alduin. It's even dumber that Delphine convinces herself that the Thalmor are behind Alduin. He's going to kill them too, he is the World Eater, not the everyone but the Thalmor eater. Plus she has no reason to suspect they had any way of bringing dragons back. They keep going on about how they were dragon slayers and they need to start killing dragons, but they never say they also used to protect the emperor and need to do that again. they just seem way too one dimensional. other people also probably have other reasons for disliking them, these were the ones I could think of right off hand.

[Raynil dralas]

Cant kill Delphine.
Cant kill Esbern.
Cant torture Delphine to death in the assassins lair.
Cant torture Esbern to death.
Cant slaughter Delphine's family, or anyone she cares for.
Cant slaughter Esbern's family, or anyone he cares for.
Cant [&@%!] on the corps of... eh you know the drill.

Also the Black-briars, every Thieve's guild memeber, Serana, and Jarl Balgruuf the greater.

I never understood why everyone has such a hissy fit about delphine and esbern? is it because they want you to kill parthanax? is that literally the only issue?

no there are several issues with them. they are supposed to serve the dragonborn, but they want to boss you around and never listen to anything you say. then there's the whole stupid go after the Thalmor at every chance instead of worrying about Alduin. It's even dumber that Delphine convinces herself that the Thalmor are behind Alduin. He's going to kill them too, he is the World Eater, not the everyone but the Thalmor eater. Plus she has no reason to suspect they had any way of bringing dragons back. They keep going on about how they were dragon slayers and they need to start killing dragons, but they never say they also used to protect the emperor and need to do that again. they just seem way too one dimensional. other people also probably have other reasons for disliking them, these were the ones I could think of right off hand.

Everyone bosses the dragonborn about he's a total yes man, he'll do literally anything for a handful of Septims and a pat on the back, i never felt the blades were particularly bossy. Delphine only sends you after the Thalmor on one occasion and its pretty reasonable to assume they may have something to do with or at least have some clue about the return of the dragons, besides can you blame her for having a grudge? they wiped out all or comrades and have being hunting her down for years. Also the blades didn't used to protect the emperor so much as the dragonborn and descendants of the dragon blood. now the septim line is dead the blades don't have that purpose anymore.

I don't think the blades in skyrim are particularly great but pretty much every faction on questline is a let down in skyrim. I just don't get why they are so despised, they never really bothered me.

[Sirocco]

I never understood why everyone has such a hissy fit about delphine and esbern? is it because they want you to kill parthanax? is that literally the only issue?

This is why I hate them.
She screws me over while I do some quest for the beards. Than despite the fact that the beards acknowledge me as the dragonborn (you know the guys who supposed to be experts in the subject), and the fact that I've already killed a dragon near whiterun, delphine forces me to prove her Im a dragonborn.
Than she tricks me into believing that blades are dragonborns helpers or something (in the end it clearly turns out to be a lie they are inperial agents nothing more), and sends me to spy on the thalmor who are totally irrelevant dragonwise. Seriously 0 connection. Also I think its kind of speciesist to assume elves have connection to dragons.
Than she makes me help to find and save the other usekess [&@%!] in the sewers.

The next quest was the only one where they were semi-usefull, because of finding the word wall. Clearly if they had scripted a question to Paarthy about how they managed to defeat alduin, there would have been no need for that dragon wall in the temple storywise.
And than, nothing. Absolutly no help at all. I have to convince the jarl to set the trap.
But than they dare to show their faces on the Peace Council and tell me they wont help me untill I kill the leader of the only people who actually helped me.
WHAT!? How are they serving the dragonborn? They literally tell you: "Sorry but I'd rather see the world be destroyed than help you against Alduin unless you kill the only person who gave you some power". 'Im supposed to be the only chance of the world for Gods sake. Because its not bad enough that the empire lets fascist elves murder people for their faith, let's destroy the root of thier culture, the greybeards who most nords, (even that spineless Balgruuf) respects.
This is why the blades are just a group of lying imperial agent [&@%!], who should be slaughtered to the last.

[Dark Spark]

...despite the fact that the beards acknowledge me as the dragonborn (you know the guys who supposed to be experts in the subject), and the fact that I've already killed a dragon near whiterun, delphine forces me to prove her Im a dragonborn. ...

I had some feelings about this a little while back.

Delphine claims she took the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller to prove that you weren't a Thalmor plant trying to seek her out. Well, there was another way she could have stayed off the Thalmor radar screen: Stick to innkeeping!

She let the threat of the Thalmor color her interpretation of duty to serve the Dragonborn. She wanted to find you, but the Thalmor made her doubt you. In this case, sacred duty bent to the winds of the changing times...

...Which is all well and good, until she declares that it is the solemn and immutable duty of the Blades to see every dragon slain, no matter what. So much for "change".

And you know, she never did let you make use of the room even after you paid 10 gold to rent it.

... They keep going on about how they were dragon slayers and they need to start killing dragons, but they never say they also used to protect the emperor and need to do that again. ...

Given that the last Dragonborn Emperor died under the Blades' watch, I think everybody considers them "damaged goods" in the bodyguard business. Which is why the Penitus Oculatus has taken over that job.

[Raynil dralas]

This is why the blades are just a group of lying imperial agent [&@%!], who should be slaughtered to the last.

Your player character has pretty much always been affiliated with the blades to some extent since daggerfall.

[LordAshton]

I never understood why everyone has such a hissy fit about delphine and esbern? is it because they want you to kill parthanax? is that literally the only issue?

This is why I hate them.
She screws me over while I do some quest for the beards. Than despite the fact that the beards acknowledge me as the dragonborn (you know the guys who supposed to be experts in the subject), and the fact that I've already killed a dragon near whiterun, delphine forces me to prove her Im a dragonborn.
Than she tricks me into believing that blades are dragonborns helpers or something (in the end it clearly turns out to be a lie they are inperial agents nothing more), and sends me to spy on the thalmor who are totally irrelevant dragonwise. Seriously 0 connection. Also I think its kind of speciesist to assume elves have connection to dragons.
Than she makes me help to find and save the other usekess [&@%!] in the sewers.

The next quest was the only one where they were semi-usefull, because of finding the word wall. Clearly if they had scripted a question to Paarthy about how they managed to defeat alduin, there would have been no need for that dragon wall in the temple storywise.
And than, nothing. Absolutly no help at all. I have to convince the jarl to set the trap.
But than they dare to show their faces on the Peace Council and tell me they wont help me untill I kill the leader of the only people who actually helped me.
WHAT!? How are they serving the dragonborn? They literally tell you: "Sorry but I'd rather see the world be destroyed than help you against Alduin unless you kill the only person who gave you some power". 'Im supposed to be the only chance of the world for Gods sake. Because its not bad enough that the empire lets fascist elves murder people for their faith, let's destroy the root of thier culture, the greybeards who most nords, (even that spineless Balgruuf) respects.
This is why the blades are just a group of lying imperial agent [&@%!], who should be slaughtered to the last.

Not sure about the rest for the first two, I can understand both sides. For the dragonborn thing, she never knew you were dragonborn, or was there when you killed the first dragon. For all she knew, you were just some nobody playing as the Dragonborn to get attention.

For the Thalmor thing, It would be logical to assume that they may have something to do with the dragons, especially since they do not say anything on the issue at all. What do want from her, to magically know everything and everyone, not explaining how she knows everything?

[Dark Spark]

... What do want from her, to magically know everything and everyone, not explaining how she knows everything?

She's a Blade. The best spies in all Tamriel. If she couldn't figure out I'm the Dragonborn, I would have no faith in her abilities.

Delphine seemed crafty enough to snag the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller before we could.

[LordAshton]

... What do want from her, to magically know everything and everyone, not explaining how she knows everything?

She's a Blade. The best spies in all Tamriel. If she couldn't figure out I'm the Dragonborn, I would have no faith in her abilities.

Delphine seemed crafty enough to snag the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller before we could.

She cannot be everywhere at once. even the best spies do not know everything or figure everything out from just looking or listening.

[Dark Spark]

The best spies may not know everything. But a halfway decent spy should have some idea about a subject that is near and dear to their heart.

Upon consideration, just what indications do we have that Delphine even did a half-decent job? Her line of investigation was flawed, producing no new information on dragons and only proved that the Thalmor were doing a better job looking for the answers than she could have done (they were the ones looking for Esbern, a man Delphine didn't even know was alive). In the end analysis, her final contribution was determining that the answers lay with the Greybeards instead!

[LordAshton]

The best spies may not know everything. But a halfway decent spy should have some idea about a subject that is near and dear to their heart.

Just hearing a loud "DOVAHKIIN" does not mean she automatically knows or even has a clue that the Player is dragonborn. She was not at the scene of the first player dragon kill, so her not knowing that the PC is dragonborn does not mean she is a bad spy.

[Dark Spark]

She tasked Farengar with locating the Dragonstone. She was present when you came back with that very Dragonstone. She was walking out of the room when Irileth came rushing in to announce a dragon sighting.

Which means she was in Whiterun when you engaged the dragon in battle. Either that, or she was traveling on the way back to Riverwood— which would have then placed her even closer to the fight.

To miss all that? She's a bad spy.

[LordAshton]

She tasked Farengar with locating the Dragonstone. She was present when you came back with that very Dragonstone. She was walking out of the room when Irileth came rushing in to announce a dragon sighting.

Which means she was in Whiterun when you engaged the dragon in battle. Either that, or she was traveling on the way back to Riverwood— which would have then placed her even closer to the fight.

To miss all that? She's a bad spy.

Not exactly true. If she was in whiterun, she would not have really seen the battle, only see the PC come back, which means nothing. If she was walking away, she could have seen the fight, but again, not see the Player absorb dragon soul because of distance.

And to miss that=/=bad spy. Being a bad spy is her letting on that she is a spy, or the thalmor finding out she is a spy.

[Mattbott]

i thought Delphine was either at Whiterun or had agents (even if its just a network of news gatherers listening out for certain things - "tell me anything you hear about dragon attacks" for example) reporting back to her from Whiterun after the first dragon is killed

I don't like Esbern and Delphine because they represent a brick wall across where i wanted to go, and this is very un TES like. Their motives and justifications can be argued (and have been) until the netches migrate, but a couple of light touches could have allowed more satisfactory resolutions to a story which i for one thought was moving pretty well until a certain point

[Leckan]

Cant kill Delphine.
Cant kill Esbern.
Cant torture Delphine to death in the assassins lair.
Cant torture Esbern to death.
Cant slaughter Delphine's family, or anyone she cares for.
Cant slaughter Esbern's family, or anyone he cares for.
Cant [&@%!] on the corps of... eh you know the drill.

Also the Black-briars, every Thieve's guild memeber, Serana, and Jarl Balgruuf the greater.

I never understood why everyone has such a hissy fit about delphine and esbern? is it because they want you to kill parthanax? is that literally the only issue?

For me, yes. I am the dragonborn whom they are supposed to swear total allegience to... yet they kick me out of their club for not doing what I'm told.

[Sirocco]

She tasked Farengar with locating the Dragonstone. She was present when you came back with that very Dragonstone. She was walking out of the room when Irileth came rushing in to announce a dragon sighting.

Which means she was in Whiterun when you engaged the dragon in battle. Either that, or she was traveling on the way back to Riverwood— which would have then placed her even closer to the fight.

To miss all that? She's a bad spy.

Not exactly true. If she was in whiterun, she would not have really seen the battle, only see the PC come back, which means nothing. If she was walking away, she could have seen the fight, but again, not see the Player absorb dragon soul because of distance.

And to miss that=/=bad spy. Being a bad spy is her letting on that she is a spy, or the thalmor finding out she is a spy.

I would really like to know why you are protecting a worthless, stupidly designed character, by disregarding the majority of the plot she has a part in.
Facts: She is in whiterun when you are sent for the dragontablet. Why would she leave before you return. Obviously she is there druing the dragon attack, and if she is a half decent spy, she will question the guards about what happened at the tower.
Now if that was all that happened, I would understand she wants to test me. But!!!
The Greybeards invite you from a holy mountain top by SHOUTING! The single best sources of information on the dragonborn, shout it out and she still needs tests?
Also the Greybeards know what is happening and that the thalmor has nothing to do with the return of the dragons, yet she sends me on a deadly fools erand to the embassy?
Seriously, you should think it through logicly, because this is just plain stupid.
The fact is that blades have never served the dragonborn, because than they would at least have a hint about what has happened in the past, and what is happening in skyrim.
Also the blades (especially delphin) are the worst spies ever, considering that they just cant see what is happening right infront of their own eyes in whiterun, even though it has been proven that the jarl of whiterun actually supports the empire from the very start of the game, so they have complete insight in the events there.

[Mattbott]

you have to remember in Esbern and Delphine's defense, that the blades haven't had much experience in their Dragonborn protecting role for several decades, certainly in living memory. Both have been hunted by the Thalmor for many years after seeing evrything they hold dear systematically and brutally destroyed. This would be extremely traumatic - enough to drive any normal person over the edge, becoming paranoid, obsessive, and completely focused on day to day living, and suddenly being handed a dragonborn would be not make them instantly become the Blades of Yore.

this isnt really explored in the game but imo explains the 'interesting' attitudes and decisions you can see in E and D - particularly in Esberns demands that P is killed. As loremaster, his link with reality is what he remembers from thousand year old tomes - so of course Paarthunaax is a very convenient target for all his hatred and pain, and here's the dragonborn as an instrument to start healing his suffering. Of course he's quite wrong if you look at it form the point of view of current events and what P has done for the Greybeards, and what he can do as an ally, but this is not how Esbern sees the world

[MidbossVyers]

So he (Esbern) really is an old fossil?

[LordAshton]

I would really like to know why you are protecting a worthless, stupidly designed character, by disregarding the majority of the plot she has a part in.
Facts: She is in whiterun when you are sent for the dragontablet. Why would she leave before you return. Obviously she is there druing the dragon attack, and if she is a half decent spy, she will question the guards about what happened at the tower.

Which guards would she question? The ones that are in the fight, and the ones that stay at the tower when you return? or the ones who just heard the shouting? not even Irelith (probably not her name) is back at the palace, and neither is Delphine. How can she be there if she is not there when you return? She was likely leaving when the fight was going on. She might have left when Balgruff was talking and handing out the orders.

how does everyone know she stays in whiterun the wholt fight until everyone at the tower returns. the only logical way for her to know what is going on and believe it is to see it herself. You cannot trust words all that easily just bcause "THEY SAW IT!"

[Dark Spark]

After a round of sniffing some Ded Jimmeh Glue tonight, I've come to the realization that I despise the Companions.

Let's start with first contact: After watching a few of the Companions slay a Giant at the Pelagius Farm, Aela comes running up to say "Well, glad that's taken care of. No thanks to you..." A few responses later, you can reply with "Sounds like a waste of time."

Aela's reply? "Well, no one asked you..."

Wait— but you did ask me. You're the one who came running across the cabbage patch to tell me all about your merry little club. You so totally asked me, you [&@%!].

Then comes the trial at Dustman's Cairn. With Farkas. My experience with Farkas invariably brings up the words spoken by a Fighter's Guild lieutenant I remember from days on passed: "I swear— I've scraped things off the bottom of my boot that had more brains than you..."

And then there's the Circle thing. You want a promotion? You've got to join the Whiterun Kennel Club. No questions, no choice about it. And once you're in, they do their best to indoctrinate you into their ways. Proving for all that they're not really people anymore: just a bunch of dogs in human suits.

I kind of wish I could join the Silver Hand, if the Silver Hand weren't simply a named Bandit gang who'll murder anyone they stumble across ("Well, that guy could've been a werewolf. And, if not, he could've become one if I didn't kill him! Where's his coin purse, by the way...")

[Mattbott]

So he (Esbern) really is an old fossil?

a mad old fossil, yes

What if he has turned into a Victor Meldrew in his years of flight and terror, and not the great heroic leader you might need him to be when Alduin returns lol

[Nord85]

And then there's the Circle thing. You want a promotion? You've got to join the Whiterun Kennel Club. No questions, no choice about it. And once you're in, they do their best to indoctrinate you into their ways. Proving for all that they're not really people anymore: just a bunch of dogs in human suits.

Well, at least some of them do have second thoughts about the whole werewolf thing (Kodlak, Vilkas). But yeah, it's annoying you don't have a say if you want to become a werewolf or not. Fortunately that can be cured after the questline.

I kind of wish I could join the Silver Hand, if the Silver Hand weren't simply a named Bandit gang who'll murder anyone they stumble across ("Well, that guy could've been a werewolf. And, if not, he could've become one if I didn't kill him! Where's his coin purse, by the way...")

The Silver Hand annoys me, too. Mostly because nothing about them is explained. Who are they, exactly? Some kind of Dawnguard-copy with criminal inclinations? An excuse for a bunch of bandits to go and kill people? And how do they even know that the members of the Circle are lycanthropes? And if they know, how on earth do they have the balls to attack the society of supposedly the best warriors in Skyrim? Nothing of this is explained, which gets me mad. I wonder if even the Bethesda writers know or even care about the answers to these questions.