Enchanting for a priest character?

[Spark]

So, my current character is a priest or something; very strict moral code and such. I talked about this on IRC a bit, but didn't really get a solution, so I'm hoping maybe someone here can help; how can I make this character an efficient enchanter without ever trapping a single black soul - I don't want him to be responsible for the eternal misery of anyone, but there's really no other practical way to get Grand souls.

[Witchery]

I too play a character with a rigid moral code (she's a paladin), and this is just one of those things where I turn a blind eye to roleplay. If it is a priest who believes in justice, perhaps only trap the souls of the wicked? Necromancers, witches, daedra worshipers, etc. That's what I tend to do. Justify it in some way, haha. Or just use soul gems that you find by traveling or purchase. (difficult, I know, but there aren't many options)

[Br3admax]

Unless he's a priest to Mannimarco or the Ideal Masters, which I doubt, he can't Soul Trap people, unfortunately. It's going against the will of Arkay.

[Witchery]

Unless he's a priest to Mannimarco or the Ideal Masters, which I doubt, he can't Soul Trap people, unfortunately. It's going against the will of Arkay.

This is probably the best answer. Sometimes it doesn't work best in game, though, haha.

[p-sto]

Well I guess it depends on how rigid you want to be. Vampires can be a great source for black souls. Though if that's still a line you don't want your character to cross I suppose to can hold out for upper level falmer and don't forget that Dwemer automatons are a great source for filled gems. And there's always mining Soul Cairn for souls, though that might be considered equally immoral.

You can level enchanting pretty far simply by learning enchantments. From experience with characters who didn't want to be bogged down by carry a massive amount of empty soul gems I can tell you that you're probably not going to max out enchanting on found gems but all the same you can still make some fairly decent enchantments if you're motivated to. And remember not every character you make needs to excel at everything.

[spin]

just use animal/creature souls. yeah you don't get a grand soul, but it's a sacrifice the priest makes for his faith. this way you really have to live with the consequence of giving your character a moral code that is in opposition to getting the best out of enchantment.

or get lots of fortify enchantment potions to increase the effectiveness of the non grand souls to grand level.

[Spark]

hmm. that doesnt sound like too bad an idea, actually. its better than just not enchanting at all, i guess

[Pilaf The Defiler]

You don't need a Black Soulgem to get the strongest enchantments. Grand Souls are equal in strength, and Mammoths are a relatively common creature containing them if your Priest or follower is up to the challenge.

[Spark]

Well, that's true, but they're considerably less common that humans and they can one-hit kill you, so..

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Such difficulties are relative. My Argonian character is an unarmored Priest and he can handle Mammoths. Of course, he's a master of Alteration and Restoration as well as the one-handed Mace, and a prolific Shouter, so that makes a big difference. Depending on how you define "priest" and the limitations of abilities you wish to impose on yourself a Mammoth is a tough beast to take down. You could always try to raise large funds of money through crafting or adventuring and simply buy filled Grand Soul Gems from wizards. This is considerably more expensive than simply filling them yourself but it's feasible.

[Spark]

Yeah, my character is pretty weak ATM; very low level.

But I finished the Azura quest and chose the white soul gem so I guess I'm stuck fighting mammoths is there anywhere a list on the wiki of other Grand soul creatures?

[Br3admax]

Sure, but a lot of them, i.e. Falmer, Draugr, etc, technically have black souls in the setting, just not in gameplay. If you're willing to do that, crypts are full of grand souls at higher levels.

[Belthazor]

Yeah, my character is pretty weak ATM; very low level.

But I finished the Azura quest and chose the white soul gem so I guess I'm stuck fighting mammoths is there anywhere a list on the wiki of other Grand soul creatures?

Souls

[Dark Spark]

I've seen plenty enough Grand soul gems available for purchase to serve my enchanting needs. But that raises the question of who filled those soul gems in the first place: perhaps some mammoth hunter selling his wares to court wizards and the like.

[logansrun]

Like someone said, why wouldn't a good priest be willing to soul trap vampires and dremora and the like that count as NPCs with black souls?

[Br3admax]

Unless he's a priest to Mannimarco or the Ideal Masters, which I doubt, he can't Soul Trap people, unfortunately. It's going against the will of Arkay.

It's pretty much definite at this point.

[logansrun]

That doesn't really address or answer my question considering that is only applicable to priests of Arkay, and even then it only applies to mortals. Vampires and Dremora aren't mortal.

[Br3admax]

It kind of does because the Imperial Cult is one encompassing religion, not nine individual ones.

[p-sto]

For the purpose of roleplay though, I think there is room for separation between what's the will of Arkay as far lore goes and the individual views of the character you're playing which is why I called this a sliding scale. I mean saying that Falmer have black souls makes perfect sense but I could imagine that many people view them as subhuman making them fair game for soul harvesting in the opinion of some priests but not in fact. The same could be said of vampires. Heck if you end up aiming for an exceptionally close minded character I think you could easily produce a man that harvests mer souls or vice versa and this character could feel perfectly comfortable that they're doing nothing to defy Arkay's will based on their prejudices.

Automatons are still fair game though. Don't think I've ever seen a filled black gem inside one them. Seems the Dwemer did know some bounds.

[logansrun]

It kind of does because the Imperial Cult is one encompassing religion, not nine individual ones.

throughout Skyrim, you find individual priests to the different gods in dedicated temples, Arkay in Falkreath (among others), Mara in Riften, etc. the only place I know you find a temple to the "Eight" (or Nine if you complete Civil War and take it for the Stormcloaks) is Solitude.

edit: excellent point, p-sto. a Thalmor-aligned High Elf might think nothing of harvesting the souls of men, while harvesting mer souls would be abhorrent.

[p-sto]

I think the reason that Arkay is pertinent to this discussion is because he's the only one of the nine that seems to have an express opinion on the matter that was brought up. And Spark's character doesn't necessarily need to be a devout of Arkay to appreciate the wisdom he brings. While I'm sure there may be some tension between temples I imagine that a priestess of Mara that spits on the teachings of Kynareth is an exception more than she is a rule.

[Br3admax]

It kind of does because the Imperial Cult is one encompassing religion, not nine individual ones.

throughout Skyrim, you find individual priests to the different gods in dedicated temples, Arkay in Falkreath (among others), Mara in Riften, etc. the only place I know you find a temple to the "Eight" (or Nine if you complete Civil War and take it for the Stormcloaks) is Solitude.

edit: excellent point, p-sto

That really doesn't change my point. A Priest of Arkay still know that Akatosh is the chief Divine.No one just worships one god when they join the Imperial Cult.

Regardless,Spark himself is adamant to not do it because of the Soul Cairn.

[Dark Spark]

If the idea of store-bought Grands is unappealing because you're unsure what particular 'creature' filled the gem, I would institute a rule that you can only enchant an item with a store-bought Grand soul gem if you use the nearest Arcane Enchanter in the presence of the seller: the idea being you hired that particular mage to gather enough magical energy to enchant the item. The mage has to be present because they are the ones doing the real enchanting, sort of.

Then I realized that the temple priests don't sell things, and the court mages in the major cities aren't quite squeaky-clean from a moral perspective. The one in Whiterun is a jerk; the one in Markarth is self-centered; the one in Windhelm pretends to be unliving (it's in his name) and the one in Solitude actually is.

Of all court mages, the one in Riften seems to be the least likely to go against a priestly character's moral code.

[Spark]

If the idea of store-bought Grands is unappealing because you're unsure what particular 'creature' filled the gem, I would institute a rule that you can only enchant an item with a store-bought Grand soul gem if you use the nearest Arcane Enchanter in the presence of the seller: the idea being you hired that particular mage to gather enough magical energy to enchant the item. The mage has to be present because they are the ones doing the real enchanting, sort of.

Then I realized that the temple priests don't sell things, and the court mages in the major cities aren't quite squeaky-clean from a moral perspective. The one in Whiterun is a jerk; the one in Markarth is self-centered; the one in Windhelm pretends to be unliving (it's in his name) and the one in Solitude actually is.

Of all court mages, the one in Riften seems to be the least likely to go against a priestly character's moral code.

Actually, as long as they're white souls, they're fine.

I actually made an exception for this character - filling a black soul - for a certain vampire lumberjack.
And using pre-filled black soul gems that were found is fine, since they're already in soul cairn, but buying them isn't, since he doesn't want to support that kind of practice.

I would agree that Wylandriah is probably trustworthy, although I think Wuunferth is too - he's actually

Spoiler:

completely innocent in blood on the ice

as you probably know, though his defense ("I'm a member of the College of Winterhold, in good standing!") is a bit meaningless since the College apparently doesn't enforce it's anti-necromancy policies very well, as Phinis Gestor openly admits to selling necromancy tomes. Of course, that dark elf, i forget his name... he keeps his selling of black soul gems secret, and Malyn Veryn and his buddies got kicked out or experimenting with black souls (I forget if that was before or after he killed someone, though). And the only other merchant that sells black soul gems is a former teacher at the college. so the college is probably anti-soul cairn, and Wuunferth seems trustworthy to me.

The one in markarth, I forget his name, is a good person; he's just a bit of a jerk. There's a trope for that, isn't there? anyways. He seems harmless enough, besides his initial rudeness, and once youve done a few favors for him he warms up to you a lot and it becomes clear that his only real faults are a bit of a temper and a lack of social skills.

[Dark Spark]

...
And using pre-filled black soul gems that were found is fine, since they're already in soul cairn, but buying them isn't, since he doesn't want to support that kind of practice. ...

Every time I come across a filled Black Soul Gem, I can see Casandra grimacing in disappointment. Ask her what's wrong, and she'd reply with a slightly whiny voice: "...filling them is the part I like most!"