Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

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Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by AngryNord »

Could the Hollow City in ESO be the "lost" Cyrodiil city of Sutch? It is obviously an Imperial city, going by its style, and it did exist previously in the 2nd era (Jorunn the Skald-King lived there in his younger years) which could fit with a "disappearance" during the Planemeld...
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by legoless »

Except it wasn't a part of the Planemeld. The Hollow City's disappearance dates back to the early First Era, some time after the Battle of Glenumbra Moors. Since Jorunn is a short-lived Nord, this rules out Sutch. We also see the ruins of Sutch in Oblivion, which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense if the city had been sucked up into Coldharbour millennia previous.

The Planemeld seemingly added very little to Molag Bal's domain. Apart from the Village of the Lost public dungeon, we don't see any kind of integration outside the Planar Vortex. However, the Prince is in the habit of stealing/imitating parts of Tamriel, and the Hollow City was once such example that happened to turn against him.
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by AngryNord »

It is a pretty severe lore break (rape) if it really is intended to have been an Ayleid city though, when there's not a single Ayleid structure, but lots and lots of Imperial ones...
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by legoless »

It's described in-game as an Imperial city. The Battle of Glenumbra Moors happened in 1E 482, which is like 200 years after the Alessian Slave Rebellion. Plenty of time for the ex-slaves to build their own city.
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by Pilaf The Defiler »

It really seems to me that the Hollow City is meant to be what's left of Delodiil. Its rival city of Abagarlas is accounted for in the form of a dungeon full of undead Ayleids. Hollow City completely fits the MO for Delodiil. It's an Imperial city that had a strong Ayleid presence and Meridia worship was common. This may seem all jumbled and out of place until you consider this was the Late Ayleid Period. Imperials and their masonry was a thing, and Ayleid princedoms still were tolerated in Nibenay then. The Alessians were in the process of wiping them out but not all the way. King Dynar had been present at Glenumbra Moors, and then was called to Delodiil to help stop the Bal worshipers, and was pulled in along with it, which explains his disappearance from history. It all ties together nicely, and I can't think of a better candidate than Delodiil.
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by legoless »

I was under the impression that Abagarlas and Delodiil existed during the Merethic. King Dynar had already fled from Nenalata by the time of the Battle of Glenumbra Moors, and Nenalata was supposedly the last Ayleid kingdom. Two Daedra-worshipping Ayleid city-states existing in Cyrodiil past this point doesn't make much sense.

To add the the confusion, Meridia's dialogue at the conclusion of the Coldharbour questline could imply that the Hollow City was never real. When you awaken in Meridia's cathedral, she calls it a "pocket realm" that she molded to seem familiar and comforting. The line seemed totally out of place though.
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by AngryNord »

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:It really seems to me that the Hollow City is meant to be what's left of Delodiil. Its rival city of Abagarlas is accounted for in the form of a dungeon full of undead Ayleids. Hollow City completely fits the MO for Delodiil. It's an Imperial city that had a strong Ayleid presence and Meridia worship was common. This may seem all jumbled and out of place until you consider this was the Late Ayleid Period. Imperials and their masonry was a thing, and Ayleid princedoms still were tolerated in Nibenay then. The Alessians were in the process of wiping them out but not all the way. King Dynar had been present at Glenumbra Moors, and then was called to Delodiil to help stop the Bal worshipers, and was pulled in along with it, which explains his disappearance from history. It all ties together nicely, and I can't think of a better candidate than Delodiil.
The Hollow City is pretty obviously Imperial, not Ayleid.
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by Pilaf The Defiler »

Maybe the distinction between the two is not as strong as we've been led to believe. Isn't it said that Imperial society is built strongly off Elven principles, and that the Ayleid ruins we see in the games represent temples and underground burial chambers mostly? What if other parts of their settlements resembled Imperial towns more strongly? That seems to be the case with other Elven races - notably Dunmer and Altmer. While they certainly do build unique and non-Imperial looking houses, some of their stuff is clearly very basic. The houses in Cheydinhal for instance are all said to be built in the Dunmer style called "half-timbering". Perhaps the Ayleid buildings that were made of wood instead of stone - or even many of their stone buildings - were stylistically nearly identical to modern Imperial buildings. I don't see any reason why that thought should be offensive or lore-breaking.
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by legoless »

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:[...] and that the Ayleid ruins we see in the games represent temples and underground burial chambers mostly?
Where does it say that? Varsa Baalim and Abagarlas are two definitive Ayleid cities that we see, and they're built in the usual limestone style.
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Re: Hollow City in ESO = Sutch?

Post by AngryNord »

It is also said by one of the merchants in the city that it used to be an Imperial City.
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