Staying out of the Civil War

[rcbecker123]

Does anyone else feel that unless your a citizen of the Empire or a Nord you should not be involved with the civil war? I meen your caught coming across the border you are from some were else and then everyone want you to get involved. I myself at least with the current character feel as the dark elves in Winhelm, its not my war.
How does this affect your game? I trade with both but turn my head when they start with you should join up. I also tend to stay away from big cities except to trade and such. My character also did not want to get involved with the whole dragon thing but figured I at least owed Riverwood a visit to the jarl to pass on a message then all of a sudden this jarl wants me to save the day for his city. Thats what I get for trying to be helpful. But now that the dragon is slaine Im off to my hideout in Falkreaf hold were I can live in peace when the Gaints, bandits and wolves are not attaking.

What does your character do under these circumstances. Lets hear what you did when this happened to you?

[Varyag]

Most of my characters stay neutral unless their RP demands joining one side or the other. So, my evil Nord lady in staunch supporter of Stormcloaks and imperial scout naturally joined Imperial legion.
Most just don't give a squat of the civil war, like my bosmer assassin.

[likelolwhat]

My character tries so very hard to be neutral, but often ends up at least marginally supporting the Empire (e.g. for Season Unending) because of her creator's (i.e. me) bias against the Stormcloaks. (Yes, I hate the Stormcloaks - or, to be fair, Ulfric. Ralof's cool.)

I'm not much of a roleplayer anyhow.

[Snail's Pace]

If the character has a good reason to take a side, then they probably should, and if they don't, then they probably shouldn't. Unless you're playing a completionist character and need to take a side just to do the quests (and there's nothing wrong with that - not everybody has the time or desire to play multiple characters).

I haven't had a character take a side yet, but it seems increasingly likely that will change soon. My main character has remained officially neutral for exactly two in-game years to date. She isn't a newcomer to Skyrim anymore, and various events (mostly of the random encounter type) have pushed the character to favor one side over the other (not the side I would have expected). So she'll probably take a side when the time is right, unless something else happens that swings the character back to neutrality.

[Ursula R. M.]

My first Char. is doing MOST things, but subsequent character's are not joining for the most part. (Nord fe) Stormcloak
Argonian, Khajiit, Vampire, Bosmer: all neutral.
The games are completely different.

[Finn Wolfshorn]

My first character (Dunmer spellsword) joined the Stormcloaks to defend religious freedom and because he hoped that the situation of his compatriots in Windhelm would turn to the better if he proved to Ulfric that "an elf can be born with the soul of a Nord"; was hugely disillusioned after the war and would probably have drowned his veteran blues in skooma if not for Mjoll's loving care and the need to defeat Alduin which gave new meaning to his life.

After that I played the Civil War on the Imperial side with my third character (Breton mage) more for completionism's sake than for any real roleplaying reasons, and that was about it. None of my other chars has felt motivated to join either side, which is largely because I tend to make anarchist individualists who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a uniform, if not downright criminals who feel that as long as the jarls have the war to worry about they can't spare too much men for combatting crime, which is just as well.

My last character (Breton/Forsworn witch) certainly hated the Bear of Markarth enough to want him dead and killed Stormcloak soldiers (or even farmers aspiring to become Stormcloak soldiers) wherever she found them but didn't feel that it would be in the best interest of the Reachmen to get too closely involved with the Empire either. She almost blew up the negotiations during Season Unending because she let Elenwen stay just to spite Ulfric and was beside herself with rage when she was forced to cede Markarth to him. I originally meant to have her retake Markarth and raid Windhelm with a task-force of Briarhearts (using console commands), but her save got increasingly wonky before I got that far, so I finished that playthrough with her defeat of Alduin.

As for my current (restarted) Bosmer thief/archer/assassin, I briefly considered having her join the Imperial Legion as a scout for the money but discarded the idea because although she despises racist Nords she has biographical reasons not to be too fond of the Empire either; she'd actually be more likely to join the Thalmor because she's been raised to believe that they're the best thing since the invention of sweetrolls, except it doesn't really fit her personality to take orders from anybody (I'm not doing the main quest with her, so she'll never learn of the ties between the Thalmor and Ulfric). Concerning potential political changes resulting from the Civil War, she hates the Silver-Bloods, likes Jarl Sinding, is indifferent to the Grey-Manes and would gladly put Brunwulf Free-Winter on the Windhelm throne, but on the other hand she likes Jarl Laila and feels that it wouldn't do to let Maven Black-Briar gain even more power over the Thieves' Guild than she already has, so all in all she has no reason to take any side in the war.

[rcbecker123]

and would gladly put Brunwulf Free-Winter on the Windhelm throne, but on the other hand she likes Jarl Laila and feels that it wouldn't do to let Maven Black-Briar gain even more power over the Thieves' Guild than she already has, so all in all she has no reason to take any side in the war.

I agree with this, which is one reason I have to stay out of the war. One of the few people I wish I could kill and deserves it is Maven.

[Dohva.]

If the character has a good reason to take a side, then they probably should, and if they don't, then they probably shouldn't.

My sentiments exactly.

My Imperial joined because she figured that it would be easier to assassinate the Emperor by joining his ranks. She's the only one of my characters that has completed the Civil War.

[Mattbott]

one of the best things about the civil war storyline is it gives my higher level characters a chance to go up against lots of low level soldiers. Not the greatest role playing thinking, but its gameplay dynamite. It's like a showcase for area effect spells, shouts and weapons perks lol


i generally dont get involved without a reason though, not all my characters fit in with either side that well

[Gengar]

For my (so far only) character, a Nord, I had all intention of staying neutral forever and so put off the Civil War quest for a very long time. I at first leaned ever-so-slightly to the Stormcloak side, until I was convinced that the Empire was the best choice.

I still thought long and hard about it, as my character was more of a free-spirited type who didn't really feel motivated to join an army, but eventually joined the Legion. Partly for roleplaying, and partly for completion's sake (I was curious to see how the quest played out).

Today my character is a proud Legate and I'm glad I joined the Legion. As far as roleplay goes, I feel it was a great turn for her story to take, and showed how she grew from a young-punk adventurer with no ideals into a mature and seasoned veteran.

Though I'm thinking for my next playthrough (if I ever do one), I might try the neutral way and see how that works out.

[dancam1]

I haven't chosen a side yet. They both are not great choices. On one hand, I agree with the Stormcloaks b/c I would hate being told whom I can worship and whom I can't. However, I blame the Thalmor more for that then the empire, they are true jerks.

But, I can't ignore how racist the stormcloaks are and how lousy the city is for non-nords. To force all outsides to live in a slum is wrong. So, I tend to find myself more pro empire. However, one thing I always do is whenever I see the Thalmor, I always get them to fight me so I can kill them. I really hate them.

[WillieMakeit]

My first attempt at the civil war didn't really turn out so well because I joined the Stormcloak side and was forced to make a rather unpleasant decision involving betraying my in-game hometown. Not to mention, I can't stand racist pigs, so I ended up starting a new game after that. Now I usually stay neutral or side with the Legion depending on my character.

[Nord85]

I've only completed the Civil War with two characters and started it with one, all in the ranks of the Legion. I've thought about making a Nord character who joins the Stormcloaks, but that would me to require to roleplay a serious dullard, which feels rather hard. Granted, I sympathize with the Stormcloaks' desire for national freedom and the right to one's own religion. But I still am unable to join them. This is because independent Skyrim would be folly at that time.

Especially after one reads the documents snatched from the Thalmor Embassy, it becomes clear that tearing Skyrim from the Empire would be playing straight into the Thalmor hands. A weakened Empire could not hope to resist them, and after the Empire's fall it would be Skyrim's turn. So, anyone with any sense would support the Empire.

This is why I roleplayed my Nord Legionnaire so that he was reluctantly following a call of duty. He realized how tragic it was a brother to fight brother, but still considered the speedy victory of the Empire as the only viable outcome. With him I fought effectively at the major battles, but usually didn't attack Stormcloak patrols in the wilderness and helped Stromcloak-aligned NPCs if they needed me to do a quest. On the other hand, any roaming Thalmor were fair game.

With my Breton, on the other hand, I played rather fanatic Imperial supporter. Every Stormcloak patrol I encountered was dead meat, as were the inhabitants of their camps (minus the wounded, as I couldn't bring myself to massacre them). The only exception to that line was not to help the Thalmor in any way (no ratting out the Talos-worshipper in Markarth, for instance).

My Altmer mage joined the Legion, as I roleplayed her as a veteran of the Great War. So she naturally was inclined to uphold the Empire. With her I didn't get far into the campaign, though, before I let the character be and started a new one.

With my other characters I've stayed neutral. One was the Harbinger of the Companions and wanted to uphold the tradition of neutrality. the others were either mercenary in outlook and didn't want to commit to a low-profit-high-risk fight, or were more interested in magic or plain saving the world first and foremost. Basically, there are reasons aplenty not to take sides as well as joining the war (at least on the Empire's side).

[Mattbott]

I've thought about making a Nord character who joins the Stormcloaks, but that would me to require to roleplay a serious dullard, which feels rather hard. Granted, I sympathize with the Stormcloaks' desire for national freedom and the right to one's own religion. But I still am unable to join them. This is because independent Skyrim would be folly at that time.

Especially after one reads the documents snatched from the Thalmor Embassy, it becomes clear that tearing Skyrim from the Empire would be playing straight into the Thalmor hands. A weakened Empire could not hope to resist them, and after the Empire's fall it would be Skyrim's turn. So, anyone with any sense would support the Empire.

You could roleplay a Josey Wales type character, who fights the empire cos they killed his family and maybe learns later both sides betray him (finish the civil war quest before doing Diplomatic Immunity though lol)

The Thalmor want the civil war because it destabilises the region, so resolving it either way weakens their position especially with the dragon crisis kicking off.. Alduin is there to eat the world after all, not just Skyrim. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that an independent Skyrim would provoke Thalmor retaliation at all, quite the opposite in fact especially when you take into account Tullius' remarks after Ulfric's demise.. a united Nord held Skyrim, rejeuvenated by Talos worship with the last Dovahkiin (who has just literally saved the world from the world eater) leading it's armies could ignite rebellions all over the place starting in Cyrodiil

[matt314hew]

I have only one playthrough so far. I joined the imperials with this playthrough but I might try to stay neutral after

[OmiChron]

As a Bosmer, I don't much like what the Thalmor are doing, but I'm careful not to move against them publicly. Season Unending was my favourite quest

Spoiler:

because I love negotiation and politicking and I personally find it a perfect part of RP; it's much more fun than just slaying people. Besides, it's the only way I can buy the house in Markarth.

The other day, I saw that 3 Stormcloaks had killed 3 Imperials. Despite the derogatory comment they threw at their bodies (and then at me, for being an elf), I decided they probably had families. I moved the Imperials into a more comfortable position and went on my way.

I promptly killed the stuck-up archer over the hill who thought he could take me on. Jerk.

[Pyrrhus]

To get Hjerim, have to join civil war, either sides. I usually wait till later in game after I raid every forts not yet occupied by either Imperials or Stormcloaks, killing bandits or hags before they're lost forever.

[Baloth-Kul]

For whatever reason, I had blinders on when doing my first playthrough, and thought "yeah yeah, rebellion, good, independence, let's do this", and did the civil war for the Stormcloaks. As a Dunmer. So much regret.

While the character themself perhaps has no direct motivation to join the Civil War (apart from maybe revenge from almost being executed by the Empire), there are hints and such throughout the game. Nord racism. Incompetent or unfitting leaders. Read Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak, and tell me he's a good, reliable leader.

Comparing potential Jarls...fairly big rant here. Possible minor spoilers.

Hidden:

The Pale; Empire is better. Skald threatens to execute Brina Merillis and her bodyguard, just because they're retired legionnaires. He has you kill a giant for no real reason. --Brina Merillis works to serve the Pale well and defend it and whatnot. Easy choice.

Falkreath; Tie. Siddgeir is a self-important, corrupt jerk, but his uncle is old, paranoid--has you break into the blacksmith's house to steal a letter, seriously? --And even if Dengeir became Jarl again, one could reason that he wouldn't live too long, and the throne would pass back to Siddgeir anyway. Nobody really wins either way.

Markarth; Empire. Really, only because the Stormcloak Jarl, Thongvor, is lame. He spewed some elf-racist crap at me, and his family is thoroughly corrupt and has the guards and such in their pockets. Not good people. Igmund is nothing special, but at least he isn't Thongvor.

Hjaalmarch; Empire. Idgrod is a good enough person and leader, and her daughter is too. Sorli manages a mine, and basically runs the community of Stonehills by the same principle. She could potentially be a decent leader, but...ehhh.

The Rift; Empire. Now, now, let me explain.

I used to think it sucked to lose Leila Law-Giver as Jarl of Riften when doing the civil war for the Empire, too, but...it really doesn't. It really, really doesn't. The Thieves Guild--more specifically, Maven Black-Briar--controls it all anyway. Leila's steward is in Maven's pocket. All of the guards. The shopkeepers are all afraid of Maven and the Thieves Guild. Even when Maven gets made Jarl, she says something to the effect of "I ran everything anyway, all that's changed is that its been made official." And if Leila couldn't see that her entire city was corrupt and debased, then she was a poor leader. Plus, her eldest son is an a-hole, and it would suck hard when he (in theory) inherits the throne.

Haafingar; Meh. Elisif is always the Jarl. Although one could argue that, since she supports the Empire, and certainly does not (willingly)support Ulfric, she would probably serve the hold much better, much happier, as an Imperial citizen, rather than a Stormcloak "ally".

Whiterun; Empire. Balgruuf obviously cares a lot about protecting his people. Two of his kids suck--you know which two I'm talking about--but I like the other one. Heheh. And he seems to be the eldest, so he'd probably be the one to inherit. Vignar just seems to be bitter about the Empire and the ban on Talos worship.

Eastmarch; Empire, by a landslide. Talk to the people in Windhelm. Ulfric is a racist, selfish [censored]. Brunwulf...I actually found myself smiling when I talked to him after he became Jarl. A much brighter future in Eastmarch, for all races.

Winterhold; Empire, big time. Korir is prejudiced against mages, but Kraldar is quite open minded about magic, and apparently chats with the Archmage.

Long term ramifications of Stormcloak victory, in theory?

Hidden:

A weaker Tamriel. The Stormcloaks would take many casualties, the Legion would suffer a whole heap of casualties. The Stormcloak victory could possibly inspire similar wars for independence in the other provinces, which would further weaken and cripple the Legion, and the provinces. --The Thalmor would swoop in. They were building their strength up again after the Great War. They could easily take Skyrim, because the Empire would no longer be able to keep them out. While yeah, it sucked having some Thalmor around Skyrim, and some Talos-hunters, a fully Thalmor-controlled Skyrim would be much, much worse.

And if other provinces had rebelled, the Thalmor would take them too. And everyone would be praising the Eight instead of the Nine, and there could very well be an Elven-dominated, Man-hating Thalmor Empire in Tamriel. Very bad.

I think that using the Empire's ban on Talos worship as a reason to support the Stormcloaks is silly. They had no choice. If they refused, the Empire would have been wiped out, and the Thalmor would've waged war on the rest of the provinces. They don't even root out Talos worshippers, the Thalmor does that. Don't ask, don't tell. If the Empire defeated the Thalmor, drove them out of the provinces, you can bet that they'd reinstate Talos worship, with nobody to kill them for doing so.

The Dunmer farmer you can occasionally meet, who talks about joining the Legion, says it short and sweet; "A united Empire is better for everyone."

[sinister]

Empire. Even though they almost had me executed, I would rather side with them.

Unless you're a nord, the Stormcloaks make Skyrim a horrible place to be.

I sided with the Stormcloaks on my first character, and immediately regreted it after talking to Adrianne in Stormcloak controlled Whiterun.

[BetaB17]

Baloth-Kul, bloody brilliant way to sum up your opinion. That is my only reason I have ever been neutral within the game.. bc neither side is favorable.. but the game limits what can be done for the better(or worse). I do indeed hold my favorites upon each side, seeing things more to what is best for their people.. rather than for a cause

I for one, can empathize with the stormcloaks.. many of their reasonings are justified.. why be subjugated by the subjugated? A weak Empire is no good.. and allowing the Thalmor to hold an influence in Skyrim is just toxic. On the other hand... Ulfic is a poor leader in regards for what he fights for. There is no lie to this, he does wish for power... and has little interest for the foreigners despite claiming otherwise>_> his own keep proves just that. The one thing the Empire has always been good with during it's reign is equal treatment amongst it's citizens.. that I can support fully

As for the Empire, this petty civil war is only going to further weaken the two.. when it would just be better to allow them to govern themselves, and aim to become allies. The Empire cannot ban worship of Talos in a province they have no control over<_< And let's just mention the High King Ulfric recently killed.. there is talk that he would of listened to his pleads, and could of settled the issue peacefully like a true leader.. but no.. just had to kill him...

Really though, while I can weave my own tale in mind, in-game.. I just aspire to do nothing of the situation. And when I must progress the main story and play a mini game of 'monopoly', I always try to insure Riften and Dawnstar get traded to the Empire.. and never Morthal to the stormcloaks.

[OblivionDuruza]

The Dunmer farmer you can occasionally meet, who talks about joining the Legion, says it short and sweet; "A united Empire is better for everyone."

Unless you respect peoples' right to self-determination, and more generally, to liberty. That said, the Stormcloaks seem to have no interest in self-determination, instead they seem to favour forcing their own beliefs on others in a way that is somehow even more imposing than the current Empire.

Really, there is a strong case for neutrality in this affair. One might even suggest Eastern Skyrim seceding from the Empire, and Western Skyrim along with it. That way, nobody gets forced to sing from another's songbook and they can all get back to living their own lives (which are troubled enough at the best of times in a place such as Skyrim/Tamriel - what with the constant threat of monsters, bandits and other ne'er-do-wells), theoretically.

[Br3admax]

Pretty sure every ES hero from the start has been from Cyrodiil, so you always have a reason to be in the Civil War if you wanted one. You're always a citizen of the Empire.

[Baloth-Kul]

Everyone has the right to self determination, absolutely, and it would probably be a great thing for the provinces, except the Stormcloaks and Ulfric aren't the answer.

Neutrality is an option but it isn't a good one. Without the Dragonborn intervening, the most likely outcome is years and years of civil war, lots of dying, before -one- side wins--which would probably be the Empire, realistically. And cue Thalmor invasion. Even if the Stormcloaks won? The Thalmor would invade Skyrim.

The Empire is still the best bet for stability and peace. Maybe if the Thalmor were defeated, the provinces could PEACEFULLY leave the Empire--and really, the Empire could just be turned into...well, Cyrodiil's army. The provinces could all draw up mutual defense agreements, trade agreements, aid agreements. But that's only possible if the Empire wins in Skyrim, really. If they don't...Thalmor invasion, boom.

[OblivionDuruza]

Pretty sure every ES hero from the start has been from Cyrodiil, so you always have a reason to be in the Civil War if you wanted one. You're always a citizen of the Empire.

I don't quite understand what leads you to make this supposition. All that is clear in the case of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim is that the PC was in Cyrodiil at a point in time, but nowhere is it indicated that they originated in the Imperial Province. Further, everyone on Tamriel is a citizen of the Empire, they have no choice in the matter - much to the displeasure of significant groups within every province (most of the Dunmer Great Houses of Morrowind, the Hist-led Argonians, the Khajiit of Anequina, the Crowns of Hammerfell, the Old Holds of Skyrim, the Orcs, the Thalmor and their Bosmer sympathises, and the unaffiliated Altmeri dissidents and other Bosmer who oppose the Imeprial Government of Valenwood). Regardless, that certainly isn't the case in either Arena or Daggerfall (where we know for certain that the PC origniated from one of the 8 Provinces other than Cyrodiil).

For those reasons alone, it seems pretty illogical to conclude that merely being a citizen of the Empire equates to satisfaction with the Empire (as I mentioned previously, Tiber Septim conquered the other provinces, and even the Imperials of the Nibenay). For that reason, opposition to the Empire enacted through a refusal to support either side of the conflict in Skyrim is certainly justifiable. There's no need to take the lesser of two evils, if you aren't satisfied with the Empire or Ulfric's personal rebellion.

[MancShezarrine]

I initially thought that the Imperials/Stormcloaks dichotomy was a bit contrived given that whatever the outcome any follow up game would have to undo one of them (ruling out a dragonbreak). However looking just at Skyrim in its own right it is interesting to see the NPC's reactions. All of them (whichever side they're on) seem to have a deeper reason to supporting either side than immediately apparent and the country really feels changed after the war has been won, which is more than can be said for Oblivion. Personally since realising that I have considered the conflict the main quest rather than the dragon stuff.