Unfortunate ESO Retcons (Gripe Thread)

[Minor Edits]

Judging by the new version of From the Memory Stone of Makela Leki, Ebonarm has been officially taken out of TES. Which is certainly an unfortunate ESO retcon.

[AngryNord]

There's a Fighters Guild in Riften, people *shakes head*

[Ilaro]

There's a Fighters Guild in Riften, people *shakes head*

Why not? It is thousand years before Skyrim. I hope you don't think the cities are totally static places?

[AngryNord]

As usual some fanboy chimes in who is totally ignorant of the actual lore...
Those of us that have actually _played_ the games, know that it is clearly stated in TES:V that due to the Companions guild in Whiterun, the Tamrielic Fighters Guild never had a representation in Skyrim.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Judging by the new version of From the Memory Stone of Makela Leki, Ebonarm has been officially taken out of TES. Which is certainly an unfortunate ESO retcon.

Or rather he simply wasn't mentioned in ESO's version of that specific book. There's still a place for him in the overall TES mythos. Who knows? Maybe the main Bethsoft team will mention him in an upcoming title.

As usual some fanboy chimes in who is totally ignorant of the actual lore...
Those of us that have actually _played_ the games, know that it is clearly stated in TES:V that due to the Companions guild in Whiterun, the Tamrielic Fighters Guild never had a representation in Skyrim.

I'm going to make two valid points here:

1 - Skyrim loading screens are hardly infallible sources of lore. Some of the claims made in them are flatly contradicted in other places, such as the source of Falmer blindness for instance.

2 - You've changed the wording and therefore the context of the one you're using to make your point. The loading screen actually states: Tamriel's Fighters Guild has no presence in Skyrim. Instead, warriors seeking adventure and kinship may join the Companions, in Whiterun.

^See how your inclusion of the word "never" makes the point more strongly in your favor than if you used the actual game's words? Since the actual loading screen doesn't say that, we shouldn't assume it. There's no Fighters Guild in Fourth Era Skyrim, but that doesn't mean there never was at any period in time. We simply have no way of knowing that, and ESO says there was.

[Minor Edits]

There was no reason to omit Ebonarm in this context, unless they believed that there was no place for him anymore in the TES mythos. He's not mentioned in Varieties of Faith or in any other part of ESO where a mention of a god of war might be expected.

[kertaw48]

Yeah, Ebonarm hasn't been mentioned since Daggerfall. This retcon, while definite for the first time, is not something new. I'm kind of glad it happened, because I've never been able to place Ebonarm in any of the established pantheons.

[Mefris Elmek]

There's a Fighters Guild in Riften, people *shakes head*

You should probably read this.The nords were among the first non Akaviri members to be accepted into the Fighters Guild so I'm not surprised they would have a chapter in Riften (especially since the guild was created only a couple hundred years before ESO takes place and the competition between the two factions hasn't really started yet ).

[Pilaf The Defiler]

There was no reason to omit Ebonarm in this context, unless they believed that there was no place for him anymore in the TES mythos. He's not mentioned in Varieties of Faith or in any other part of ESO where a mention of a god of war might be expected.

I'm of a mind with you that Ebonarm should never be forgotten. We'll make them remember him, my friend. They'll know Ebonarm and they'll know the Monkey Truth. That's my pledge.

Yeah, Ebonarm hasn't been mentioned since Daggerfall. This retcon, while definite for the first time, is not something new. I'm kind of glad it happened, because I've never been able to place Ebonarm in any of the established pantheons.

Round hole, square peg. Those established pantheons are certainly one view of the cosmos and the Divine, but there are plenty of gods and spirits that don't fit into them, nor do they have any obligation to.

[legoless]

Shame about Ebonarm, they were revisiting Alik'r and everything.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

This is happening. Theories are being formulated. We will shout about Ebonarm from the rooftops in ESO. They will KNOW Ebonarm and they will KNOW the Monkey Truth. Emeric will not erase his legacy. Hallelujah!

[Minor Edits]

A very interesting theory there, though its foundation is more than a little rickety. The mythical underpinnings are heavily reliant on the idea that ebony is Lorkhan's blood. I'm not aware of any real basis for this idea in the games; it seems to be based entirely on treating the presence of Lorkhan's heart and ebony deposits in Morrowind as causation rather than a correlation.

That being said, I'm on board for any fan movement to reestablish Ebonarm. We'll shove Ebonarm down their throats til they either recant the retcon or enunciate some similarly crazy metaphysical explanation for his absence.

I fashioned a userbox for the cause (you may have to sign in to see the latest version of a page).

[kertaw48]

Yeah, Ebonarm hasn't been mentioned since Daggerfall. This retcon, while definite for the first time, is not something new. I'm kind of glad it happened, because I've never been able to place Ebonarm in any of the established pantheons.

Round hole, square peg. Those established pantheons are certainly one view of the cosmos and the Divine, but there are plenty of gods and spirits that don't fit into them, nor do they have any obligation to.

Point taken, but that's not what I meant. I meant that he's not like Magnus or Xarxes or Jephre. They all have a bit of metaphysics/interesting lore to them. All Ebonarm is notable for is being an enemy of every Daedric Prince and this.
Much like other gods that never transcended the "Daggerfall era" of lore development (like Sai and Ephen), he just reeks of generic fantasy. Maybe it's just a personal preference but compare, for an example, Daggerfall's take on Baan Dar and the way it was handled later on. Depth.

I have to agree, though, "crazy metaphysical explanations" would be awesoooom.

[Archer]

Interesting that there would be a book about The Lusty Argonian Maid, given that the play wouldn't be written well into the 3rd era.

[Minor Edits]

It's amazing to me that they wrote that whole book simply to justify keeping the Lusty Argonian Maid in ESO. It's an ancient joke at this point; they should've just come with their own jokes instead of going to such great lengths to rehash old ones. It's just... wow.

[Minor Edits]

We'll give you credit: you broke Alkosh something fierce, and that's not easy. Just don't think you solved what you accomplished by it, or can ever solve it. You did it again with Big Walker, not once, but twice! Once at Rimmen, which we'll never learn to live with. The second time it was in Daggerfall, or was it Sentinel, or was it Wayrest, or was it in all three places at once?

This sections appears, unaltered, in the ESO version of the book. It is, of course, referring to Tiber Septim's use of Numidium, as well as the Warp in the West.

I'm not sure what circumstances surround its appearance; maybe it's supposed to be a timey-whimy thing in context. Does anyone else know if we can go ahead and add this to the Facepalm Collection?

[legoless]

Found kegs of Black-Briar Mead in the Nord lumber camps outside Ebonheart. Wat.

[AngryNord]

Somehow you almost get the impression that they originally intended to set the game in the 4th era, changed their mind halfway into development but didn't bother to swap out the in-game books....

[legoless]

To be honest, I wouldn't even care if the Black-Briars were derped out of existence. That whole storyline was weak.

[Zero_The_Dark]

Now I could be wrong here (and I likely am) but is it ever explicitly stated that the Black-Briar Mead is a more recent development in Skyrim? I feel like as influential as that family is it's quite possible they have been around for quite sometime making their sub-par mead. I realize that second era to 4th era is a really long time, but when it comes to elder scrolls I don't know that a family making mead for several hundred years is where I'm going to draw the line of unreasonability.

As against ESO as I am, I feel like we might be able to let this one slide.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

They're just a really old clan. Other old clans are mentioned in ESO too, like the Greymanes.

[legoless]

Sure, maybe it was a local brew before it became industrialised. Still sloppy.

Another: After the trouble the devs went to to include the Chimer in ESO, they could have at least read some basic facts about the race. There's a whole quest where you travel back in time and meet "Chimer", but every single one is a grimy red-eyed ashskin. I don't even.

[Minor Edits]

You mean, Chimer appear like Dunmer in ESO? Seriously?

[legoless]

Seems so. Stonefalls, Ash Mountain questline. Requires a certain stage of the main quest to be complete (defending Davon's Watch) to begin.

Spoiler:

You travel into the memories of a First Era Chimer wizard who was responsible for binding Balreth.

I hope I'm mistaken, but from what I could follow these guys were supposed to be Chimer.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Mavos looks Altmer toned to me. When you first meet him he is a ghost, so it's easy to mistake his features for Dunmer features, but the younger version you meet in the past doesn't have ashen skin at all.

edit: And here is a video from the past content. Note the Chimer NPCs are quite a bit lighter than any Dunmer npcs in the game.