Nerevar's End

[Secret Magic User]

Hidden:

Actually, as you progress in the game, you'll find that the story behind the events of indoril and dagoth ur is ambiguous and the game lets the player decide and assume from their own perspective. As can be seen in-game, everyone has a different story to tell. The temple will glorify the actions of the tribunal gods and say that dagoth ur was responsible for the death of nerevar. On the other hand dagoth ur will explain multiple times throughout the game he was loyal to nerevar till the end and ultimately, it was he who betrayed him.
The only other account can be from a dwemer perspective but yagrum, the last living dwemer, unfortunately has nothing to say on it.

That's exactly my point. The only "true" account is the player's own interpretation. Which is what makes the story so much better than that of certain other games which shall remain nameless.

This post in a different topic made me really want to know what y'all think happened to Nerevar on that tragic day. Was Nerevar murdered by his Tribunal companions or was he struck down by Dagoth Ur? Do you think it was one of the Dwemer lords, Dumac and Kagrenac? Do you have a different suspect in mind?
I'll be putting up my own theory a bit later, when I'm at my computer.

[Demiverse]

I think we all know who the real culprit is.

[Kerr]

I'm not sure, none of us are and we never will be. However I think Nerevar might have been gravely wounded in battle and then his companions euthanized him. So they killed him but they could truthfully say that they didn't murder him. Then afterwards they went against his dying wishes and used the artifacts.

[Demiverse]

Then Nerevar told his queen and generals all that had transpired under Red Mountain and how the Dwemer had used special tools to turn their people into immortals and of the wondrous power of the Heart of Lorkhan. The Tribunal decided that the Chimer should learn how to use this power so that Nerevar might claim Resdayn and the world for their people. Nerevar did not expect or want this, so he asked his queen and generals to help him summon Azura yet again for her guidance. But the Tribunal had become as greedy as Kagrenac upon hearing of the power of the Heart and they coveted it. They made ritual as if to summon Azura as Nerevar wanted but Almalexia used poisoned candles and Sotha Sil used poisoned robes and Vivec used poisoned invocations. Nerevar was murdered.

(emphasis added)

Interestingly enough, the author of this book is the "Tribunal Temple" - the original source possibly being Ashlander folklore. Why the Temple would see fit to document such incriminating evidence, I don't know. It reminds me of the Archivum Secretum of the Vatican. But I've always had a feeling that this account was closest to the truth. Something about the "poisoned candles, robes and invocations" conjures powerful imagery befitting such an event.

[Secret Magic User]

I'm not sure, none of us are and we never will be.

Oh without a doubt we'll never be certain. I'm just curious to see the theories and reasons that this community has.

"That is bitter. The gods and fates are cruel. I served you faithfully once, Lord Nerevar, and you repaid me with death. I hope this time it will be you who pays for your faithfullness."

If you tell him that you are Nerevar reborn, this is his response. He says that it was Nerevar who struck him down, not the Tribunal or any member thereof. This tells me it was indeed the Tribunal who did the foul deed. I'm inclined to believe Ur over any of the Temple Doctrine or preachings because he really has nothing to gain from lying. Also, I firmly believe that he would be honest with the reincarnation of his dead Lord, considering how heavily he honors Loyalty to Lord.

As an aside, I believe that during the first fight, Dagoth may have pulled some punches so as not to intentionally kill Nerevar. He seems like the kind of guy who would have killed everyone else and tried to find a way to spare Nerevar. Even when you face him as the Nerevarine, he seems to genuinely wish there was a way to join forces with you. Considering all that has happened and what is about to happen, I think that bespeaks some serious ties of friendship and platonic love.

I think we all know who the real culprit is.

Dagoth Ur was only the apprentice.

[Demiverse]

I think we all know who the real culprit is.

Dagoth Ur was only the apprentice.

The real culprit isn't Fargoth. It's whoever created that video.

[Secret Magic User]

@Demiverse
I don't think Kagrenac's Tools could undo that kind of villainy.

[Karma30]

I always thought the account you get off Vivec is the true version. It seems more real and less kind of "preachy" than the dissident version. That one to me seems like it was written with an agenda in mind. As for Dagoth Ur, many villains justify their deeds by previous wrongs done to them in the past. It is not uncommon for bad guys to twist things around to make themselves the victim, especially if you've had several thousand years to do so.

If Ur is serious about letting you join him, then Dagoth Gares shouldn't attack you before you attack him. So much for extending the hand of friendship.

[Demiverse]

I think viewing Ur as "the bad guy" is an intellectual cop-out. It's too dismissive, reductive and (dare I say) complicit. This is a story of grey morality where it's more than likely that everyone involved has committed heinous acts.

Also, don't be too sure that Vivec doesn't have an agenda of his own. His is perhaps the most brilliantly veiled in the game.

[yoginc]

Personally, I think in the end, the tribunal betrayed nerevar and must have killed him. Because azura then appeared and blamed only those three and cursed their kind. I don't think she mentioned nerevar. Also, like I said, perhaps the only other ones who could give an explanation are the dwemer. But even the last living dwemer couldn't help on that. But it makes sense, the dwemer disappeared just a moment before, and weren't present during the final events of the battle. I still don't understand on how yargum could remain when all the other dwemer kind disappeared in an instant.

[Secret Magic User]

I think viewing Ur as "the bad guy" is an intellectual cop-out.

Yes, and...

Also, don't be too sure that Vivec doesn't have an agenda of his own. His is perhaps the most brilliantly veiled in the game.

Yes! Ur was such a great adversary because he, in some seriously circumstantially validated ways, was a guy you could support in his conflict with the Tribunal. Now Vivec, like you said, is brilliantly veiled. His Anticipation was Mephala after all, who is nothing if not deceitful. People seem to forget that, and I think he gets written off too easily as one of the good guys.

If Ur is serious about letting you join him, then Dagoth Gares shouldn't attack you before you attack him. So much for extending the hand of friendship.

The issue though, is that he can't extend that hand even though he wants to. He has to at least try to kill you. You're too dangerous to keep around. You are the one who is prepared, the one who is destined to strike him down and bring his plan to an end. "The gods and fates are cruel" because he must once again fight, and try to kill, someone he once thought of as a close friend and ally. It wouldn't surprise me if in the interim of all those millennia, Ur hadn't tried to think of a way that it could have gone differently.

@yoginc

Hidden:

I still don't understand on how yargum could remain when all the other dwemer kind disappeared in an instant.

I realize this isn't the point of the thread, but, I've had a theory about why this happened and I'll share it now.

When Mundus was created, it was a symphony. It was music. Now, music is made up of different notes and tones and pitches and what have you. Well, the world itself resonates at a certain tone, and each thing in the world resonates at a certain tone. However, a whole race might easily have nearly identical tones. Enter the Dwemeri Tonal Architects, who studied and manipulated the tones of the world and of different things to achieve some of the feats they did. We know that Kagrenac, Chief Tonal Architect, was doing some weird stuff at the time of the Battle of Red Mountain, and Yagrum mentions the he was in another dimension/outer realm at the time. Whatever Kagrenac was doing afflicted him and all those similar enough in tone(corporeal Dwemer on Mundus) so much that they disappeared. Since Yagrum Bagarn was in another dimension, it's my belief that his tonal resonance was far enough removed from the source strand(Kagrenac's) that he was essentially shielded from whatever happened. That's my theory. Kirkbride though, I believe, said that a plot device engaged and protected him.

[Demiverse]

Damn! I always guessed "Yagrum Bagarn" was Dwemer for "Plot Device". I didn't realize we had MK's admittance. But yeah. Basically that.

And the same could probably be said for our pal Gares as well. If he wasn't scripted to attack on sight, and you chose to spare him, you wouldn't get

Spoiler:

teh corprus

[Karma30]

I think viewing Ur as "the bad guy" is an intellectual cop-out. It's too dismissive, reductive and (dare I say) complicit. This is a story of grey morality where it's more than likely that everyone involved has committed heinous acts.

Well, perhaps. But the Tribunal is certainly the lesser of two evils. Up until recently they served the people of Morrowind as protectors and whatnot. Dagoth Ur by sending the ash storms, blight, making people do nasty things by influencing them with ash statues et al is certainly acting in a way that is the antithesis of weal.

The evil lite of the Tribunal in later years seems to me more a case of stifling orthodoxy, a bureaucracy more intent on serving itself rather than the people, as Vivec acknowledged when you talk to him after the showdown (and as in the Progress of Truth.) After all, the fundamentals of Temple Doctrine are charity for the poor, education for the ignorant and protection for the weak. I'm not sure that Dagoth Ur, if victorious, would have the same goals.

Vivec was a junior counsellor at the time of Nerevar, unless he was being disingenuous. Was he that close to Alma and Sotha at that time that they thought he would be a good third man to dispose of Nerevar 'cause they wanted to be gods and he wouldn't let them? Their first thought was to kill him rather than talk him round or whatever? They seemed to come to that decision pretty quickly. I'm still inclined to believe that Ur was the killer here.

Personally, I think in the end, the tribunal betrayed nerevar and must have killed him. Because azura then appeared and blamed only those three and cursed their kind. I don't think she mentioned nerevar.

In "Nerevar at Red Mountain", Azura appears after Nerevar has been killed but before the tools were used. In that source, her appearance could been seen as punishment to the (pre) Tribunal for Nerevars' death. In "Battle of Red Mountain", she comes after the tools have been used and so the change in the Dunmer would be punishment for the Tribunal becoming divine. Depends on who you believe.

And the same could probably be said for our pal Gares as well. If he wasn't scripted to attack on sight, and you chose to spare him, you wouldn't get

Spoiler:

Well, yes. The story has to advance. Just saying there is a bit of a difference between word and deed which can't really be resolved unless you have some sort of cut scene showing you bowing to Ur and being turned into an Ash Vampire. Sorry, game over.


***** My 100th post! I've never been around long enough in any forum to get that. Though it took a bit of time *****

EDIT - forgot a couple of things.

I always thought the anticipations thing was a crock - theology was invented so the Tribunal could justify their worship by the Dunmer as replacements of the Daedra. I mean, was Almalexia really the result of Boethiah and 99 lovers? I thought their divinity came about by a whack of a hammer, a knifing of sound and hey presto! a god is born.

As for Dagoth Ur and evil, I forget the name, but there is a series of books out there detailing what happened to the rest of House Dagoth after the Red Mountain incident. The remaining 6th house truebloods are not very nice people. They may be driven to evil by the influence of Ur in their dreams, but nonetheless the house is nasty. No getting round it.

[Demiverse]

@Karma30

I'm not saying Ur wasn't a creep. I'm saying they all were.

Ur was a rare breed - probably some sort of genius. But many geniuses, when left in seclusion long periods, develop a perverted perception of reality. Think of all the time he had to nurse his sense of bitterness and betrayal. It would eventually drive him mad. And all this from someone who had once proven himself a truly loyal and honorable man. This is where the pathos kicks in.

With the Tribunal, you don't get that. They're too far removed from human sensibility. They have ceased to be mere individuals and have become transcendent archetypes. Godlike beings whose concerns often elude mortal interpretation. Contrast this with Dagoth's motivations - they are base, driven purely by emotion - in other words, human.

Of course the Tribunal displays human characteristics too - most notably negative ones like arrogance, jealousy and egomania. But the fact that Dagoth is cast as "the villian" actually makes him more relatable, when we begin to unravel the web of his character.

And what happens if you question Temple doctrine? It's almost a social experiment that the game inflicts upon the player. What is the agenda of those that wrote the doctrine? Preaching selflessness, sacrifice and altruism is commonplace in countless real-life religions. But that hardly means no preacher is corrupt.

Take for example the Seven Graces. Humility, Daring, Generosity, Courtesy, Justice, Valor and Pride. Based on Vivec's deeds. How many of these graces does Vivec himself exhibit? Most of these traits that he may have had as a mortal were probably lost with his ascension to godhood. IMO, he proves himself more of a selfish, vainglorious coward than a humble, generous philanthropist.

And yes, I think almost any source will confirm his closeness with Alma and Sotha. All three were Nerevar's councilors. As such their very job would have forced them to be in close proximity with each other and have an at least functional working relationship. This puts them in the perfect position to develop a mutinous dynamic.

And as far as evil vs. "evil lite" - that's highly subjective. But I've always believed true evil to be cunning, manipulative, subtle. It's not always a blatant, over-exaggerated, cultlike gore-fest. It creeps in gradually, like a slow acting poison, so its victim doesn't notice until it is too late.

I'd pull some examples of this from current global politics, but I'd risk getting hung on this board. Anyway you folks are clever enough to figure it out yourselves.

Also,

Personally, I think in the end, the tribunal betrayed nerevar and must have killed him. Because azura then appeared and blamed only those three and cursed their kind. I don't think she mentioned nerevar.

Misquote. Someone else posted this.

[Karma30]

Oops, sorry for the misquote. Clicked the wrong place.
Yes, we can all think of RL examples of organisations starting out with the best of intentions and becoming far more vicious than what they replaced.
Perhaps another way of looking at the good vs evil thing is "me vs them".
Ordinators for all their faults don't usually attack on sight unless you try and impersonate one of them. Ash creatures do. So, in order to stop more ash creatures being created, you need to go to the source and shut it down. Purely a self interest thing.
(We might just have to skip over the fact that every single hostile creature in the game attacks only you though.)

Take for example the Seven Graces. Humility, Daring, Generosity, Courtesy, Justice, Valor and Pride. Based on Vivec's deeds. How many of these graces does Vivec himself exhibit? Most of these traits that he may have had as a mortal were probably lost with his ascension to godhood. IMO, he proves himself more of a selfish, vainglorious coward than a humble, generous philanthropist.

I thought the Rains Hand books showed a very human side to the Tribunal, doing the best they could against a foreign invasion.

And what happens if you question Temple doctrine? It's almost a social experiment that the game inflicts upon the player. What is the agenda of those that wrote the doctrine? Preaching selflessness, sacrifice and altruism is commonplace in countless real-life religions. But that hardly means no preacher is corrupt.

But that doesn't mean they all are. Many of the Temple quests involve helping people. Saryoni seems like a fairly decent chap after all.
And then, after the MQ is completed, Vivec does acknowledge the past wrongs of the Temple and is going to change things. He admits things got out of hand, regrets the way the Temple got kind of side tracked in the self interest stakes and promises to do better. Although by that time he is somewhat diminished and again could be acting in self interest so he doesn't get a pitchfork and flaming torch experience.

It is amazingly deep, the lore and history of Morrowind. I still think I'll still stick to my original stance that Ur bad, Tribunal not so bad though.

[Dragazhar]

I just started playing Morrowind for the first time. I know that's odd since I've played the 2 previous games but I was unable to get it till after I got Skyrim. I am absolutely fascinated by the lore and Ive only delved into a tiny portion of it and some of the papers I went thru in the Library in Vivec to me seemed way too far fetched to be truth. There are truths to every tale however and I seek to read between the lines to find it. I agree the tribunal was the lesser of the two evils and I'm sure the existence of alternate historical accounts is intentional simply to give doubt to the those who seek the truth and / or to waylay their progress.

Reading this topic, I went thru my inventory and found The Lost Prophecy and read it and did a double take. It named the Nerevarine a dragonborn. O_O I want to read more!

[Pilaf The Defiler]

""He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."

[Borol gro-Brol]

I just started playing Morrowind for the first time. I know that's odd since I've played the 2 previous games but I was unable to get it till after I got Skyrim. I am absolutely fascinated by the lore and Ive only delved into a tiny portion of it and some of the papers I went thru in the Library in Vivec to me seemed way too far fetched to be truth. There are truths to every tale however and I seek to read between the lines to find it. I agree the tribunal was the lesser of the two evils and I'm sure the existence of alternate historical accounts is intentional simply to give doubt to the those who seek the truth and / or to waylay their progress.

Reading this topic, I went thru my inventory and found The Lost Prophecy and read it and did a double take. It named the Nerevarine a dragonborn. O_O I want to read more!

I had to look it up to see what you mean. It seemed to me to suggest more that he was born as a citizen of the Empire of Cyrodiil. Especially taking into account the UESP page on the prophecy: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Lost_Prophecy. It is possible they mean it literally, but I just assumed it to mean that it would only happen at some point during the Empire's existence, else he should come from Skyrim or Akavir since, beside the land of dragons, only the humans use those symbols to display their power and cultural heritage.

[Br3admax]

It means the Nerevarine would not be of Morrowind, but an Outlander born to a certain lineage, from uncertain parents under the Imperial Dragon, the Imperial Diamond i.e. Akatosh. Not a Dragonborn but dragon-born.

[Borol gro-Brol]

Thanks Br3ad, I haven't played Morrowind but this is good to know.

[Imbalance]

I always figured Azura was the real culprit, setting the whole scenario in motion as a means to eventually have her chosen and blessed champion take down Hircine at his own game. The Daedra are like that, you know.

[JLE]

Vivec claims that "The Tribunal murdered Nerevar" is a calumny that could be traced back to an otherwise forgotten companion of Nerevar's, Alandro Sul - who opposed the Tribunal after Nerevar's death and eventually went to live among the Ashlanders.

(Is it possible that Sul-Matuul, and his father Sul-Senipul whose bow you have to fetch, are descendants of Alandro? This might explain why some of the faith in Nerevar has been strongest among the Urshilaku Ashlanders.)

There are so many conflicting accounts of events, with nobody being entirely sure who was on whose side - the Nordic account (from Five Songs of King Wulfharth) suggests that, yes, Dagoth was intending to betray Nerevar and the Dunmer, but also that Dumac stood alongside Nerevar, allied with him against the Nords! Dagoth may well have been playing all sides off against each other, of course... but all other versions, of course, have Nerevar and Dumac coming to blows: what seems more likely is that there was a three-way battle (Nords, Dwemer, Dunmer) with each side convinced that the other two were allied against them...

But one interesting thing is that the Nordic account seems to give greater prominence to Alandro Sul as a companion of Nerevar. Two different sentences in the same book suggest that Dumac was killed not by Nerevar, but either by King Wulfharth or Dagoth-Ur: again, two different sentences suggest either that Vehk (Vivec?) "blasted the Ash King (Wulfharth reborn) into hell", or that Wulfharth fell by the hand of Alandro Sul but not before blinding Sul: and that Nerevar's mortal injury came not from either Dagoth or Dumac but from the reborn Lorkhan himself whom Nerevar was subsequently able to strike down after feigning death...! Clearly it cannot be truly relied on, since it contradicts even itself, but *something* out of the ordinary happened there. Something, perhaps, that even allows for an "all of the above happened at once despite the fact that they are mutually conflicting" event such as is the official canonical version of the "Warp in the West" where ALL the possible endings of "Daggerfall" happened at once.

It does seem that Nerevar did survive the battle with Voryn Dagoth and outlive him, but not for very long. The question being, could the Tribunal have saved him? Certainly in Ashlander tradition, it is claimed that they could have, and did not (the whole talk of "poisoned robes, poisoned candles, poisoned invocations"), but perhaps they have reason for a grudge: as Nerevar's chiefest supporters, the followers of Alandro Sul, being sidelined once the battle was over.

There is even the question of: if Nerevar was either directly murdered, either by them hastening his death or merely failing to save him, are ALL the Tribunal guilty? Or did one or more act in good faith only to be deceived by the rest? The only thing we know for certain is that Vivec, in person, denies having murdered Nerevar - but then, he would, wouldn't he? On the other hand, he was the last of the Tribunal to stay faithful to the fight against the true enemy, Dagoth-Ur. And by many accounts - not just his own but others as well - Vivec seems to have been among the most visibly important of the Three, the one to whom the greatest number of unequivocally heroic and "good" deeds are ascribed, and also the primary leader both diplomatic and military for both the wars against the Empire: the Eighty Years War at the end of the First Era, and the subsequent war which was concluded by diplomacy in the Third when Morrowind at last joined the Empire. He may, in fact, be genuinely innocent and have been the "useful idiot" to Almalexia and Sotha Sil's power grab, guilty only by association. Did Almalexia, in fact, murder her husband without the knowledge of her future lover, and trap him into the Tribunal because he dared not reveal the truth?

Sotha Sil's Clockwork City, from which he was said to be reshaping the world, lost touch with reality a long time ago - as did he, to the point that nobody even knows when he actually died (was killed by Almalexia), only that it was at some time after his rescue by Vivec: and Almalexia herself devolved from putting on the face of an all-loving mother-figure to being a bloodthirsty tyrant in the end. Vivec still sat in his city, keeping the duty going, keeping the Ghostfence up, keeping the watch on Dagoth-Ur - alone, and with so much of his energy concentrated on that that he could no longer control or even speak to his own Temple. His last great deed was going beyond his own Ghostfence to rescue the two other members of the Tribunal from their own folly and captivity when they no longer had the power to confront even the ash vampires. Somehow I think Vivec might actually be telling the literal truth when he says *he* did not murder Nerevar. He certainly does not deny, nor confirm, whether the others might have, nor can he be asked on the subject.

The thing I find interesting is that, from the repute of what Almalexia was, or at least acted as, in her early days on the Tribunal, one would have thought that - given that the Three were linked to the "Three Good Daedra" of Azura, Mephala and Boethiah - given that Vivec is linked to Mephala, one would have expected that Almalexia would be linked to Azura, by acting as a mother-figure of the more "caring" type, and that Sotha Sil, the magical researcher who preferred to act at a distance and keep his own involvement secret, would have been linked to Boethiah, the Prince of Plots. Yet it was the other way around: Almalexia is the one to whom the Prince of Plots is officially made the Anticipation. Is her "caring" and "motherly" nature just an act, and is she the true mastermind and plotter?

I think Vivec may be innocent except in that he learned about it and has said nothing for centuries, but Almalexia is definitely guilty in Nerevar's death. And in the case of Sotha Sil, who knows?

[Marisa Kirisame]

Have you found a Mantle of Woe?
[This is a little sarcastic hint that implies that necroposting isn't quite alright by the forum rules.]

So as far as I can remember, Dwemer would play no role in Nerevar's death, as he has died after the tools were discovered, and the tools were discovered after Dwemer got themselves 'out of this plane of existence'. The last one was saved by being far away from the Heart, so he isn't even a witness.

Almalexia being guilty in Nerevar's death? That would do some nice NTR fanfic plot. She kind of falls for someone else and they scheme a plot to kill poor Nerevar while he doesn't suspect anything, and only learns of her treachery when he's about to die. Oh, and he also learns that she was cheating on him with that someone else.

Myself I'd listen to Azura. She definitely has feelings for Nerevar (and then the Nerevarine), so she won't lie. Lotsa "The Matrix" parallels in the "Nerevarine prophecy" thing by the way.

[Amuri Il-Kaliki]

Well, since this has been resurrected...

First, here's what I believe happened at Red Mountain: Nerevar steadfastly refused to use the tools and was bent upon their destruction; however he needed to convince the Tribunal (specifically Sotha Sil) to help him, hence he left faithful Vorayn Dagoth to guard the tools while he argued with them. Instead, they kill him, and go back into Red Mountain, tell Dagoth that Nerevar changed his mind, and try to kill him. Hence Dagoth feels he has been betrayed by Nerevar, and certainly loathes the Tribunal for turning Nerevar against Dagoth.

Why do I think the Tribunal killed Nerevar? The Persecution of the Nerevarine: Regardless of the benevolence of the priesthood, the malevolence of the Ordinators, or the buoyancy of the Armingers, this is the single most important policy of the Tribunal insofar as the truth of Nerevar’s death is concerned. By denying the Nerevarine, they are affirming their complicity in Nerevar’s death. They set the Nerevarine up as their enemy, hence they have something to fear from him, and therefore the Nerevarine is intrinsically an enemy to both Dagoth and Tribunal.

We know Almsivi are capable of such acts because we witness them as mortals at the end. Vivec*, who has always had a dark, existential buoyancy, and who though devious is most honest with himself about the lies he tells, accepts his impending death. But Almalexia does not, and instead grasps after her fading power and glory. She discards the façade and lives as who she was before Red Mountain. As for Sotha Sil, he had what he always wanted, the ability to live on his own and tend to his pet projects—which we see are in fact monstrosities.

I find Vorayn Dagoth to be an incredibly sympathetic character. He was loyal to his general, and stayed to guard the tools of Kagrenac. When the Tribunal killed Nerevar, they return and try to take the tools from Dagoth, who resists, uses them as a last resort, and loses them to the Tribunal. It is the pain of betrayal and the corrupting influence of the Hearth of Lorkhan that drives him insane.

So at Red Mountain, the Tribunal was Nerevar’s true enemy; Dagoth his true friend.

But then history inverts their trajectories. Dagoth, betrayed, isolated, left for dead in close proximity to the Heart of Lorkhan, is twisted by the power and by lust for vengeance and becomes evil incarnate. The Tribunal, because they are united, are able to create a convincing façade of benevolence behind which to enjoy their immortality. The entire Temple is built upon a lie, that Almsivi achieved immortaility through virtue rather than through Kagrenac’s tools. None of the 36 Lessons of Vivec happened. It is all propaganda built to hide the truth and maintain the structures of power.

That being said, once they were in positions of authority, they felt the weight of responsibility to the Dunmer, and the weight of what they did to Nerevar, and the threat posed by Dagoth, and chose to do right by it, to redeem themselves. So the Temple is directed to serve its citizens. Almsivi are Philosopher Kings, they rule from wisdom and knowledge, and believing that their people are better ignorant, they lie to them. Alsmivi truly care for the welfare of the Dunmer—hence Vivec’s truce with Tiber Septim, rather than fighting a destructive, vainglorious war in the name of independence (no names named).

So when Nerevar returns to save the Dunmer from destruction, Dagoth is his enemy; the Tribunal his friend.

Each party has something to fear from Indoril Nerevar Incarnate, and rightfully so: The Tribunal, for the betrayal which they have spent millennia covering up; Dagoth Ur, for the evil he has allowed himself to become.

*I do like the proposal that Vivec was duped in the murder--I hadn't thought of that before.

[legoless]

None of the 36 Lessons of Vivec happened. It is all propaganda built to hide the truth and maintain the structures of power.

See the final answer on this page. The sermons may not be the literal truth, but they're far more than simple propaganda.