Khajiits and cats

[VelothiConservative]

When playing oblivion and skyrim, and maybe morrowind (i don't remember right now) there are references which indicate the existance of cats. People commonly call khajiits for cats, so I wonder, are they cats? Are they releated to the housecats people always talk about (when in combat)? I've never seen a cat, or any other feline creature, other than khajiits in any of the games, but they are mentioned. Are they releated, or not, and how does lore explain it either way? What relation to khajiits have to normal cats if they exist? Are normal cats simply a breed of khajiit (seems very unlikely)? Is this just a reference from reality which there isn't really much though behind and thus we aren't supposed to expect a reasonable explaination from lore?

yeah, you see what I'm getting at.

[Minor Edits]

PGE1: The Elsweyr Confederacy makes reference to common house-cats. Yes, regular cats exist in TES, they just haven't been represented yet. And yes, one or two types of Khajiit are apparently very similar to regular cats.

Edit- whoops, I guess they have been represented before!

[Thuro Pendragon]

Well there are real life creatures such as wolves, bears, etc. So its not out the field of reason that's there's such a thing as kitties.

Ninja'dd

[Kerr]

As others have said, yes there are regular cats. There were even cats in Daggerfall.

Hidden:

[VelothiConservative]

As I suspected then: cats exist. The question then is, what relations do khajiits have towards cats? I understand that evolutionary biology doesn't really exist in TES universe, but they must be connected somehow. Do they view cats as we humans view apes and monkeys? Releated but not as smart? What do they think about cats being held as pets?

what does the lore say about that?

[Kerr]

I'm not what the lore says about the relations between cats and Khajiit. There are cougars in Oblivion and I don't remember any Khajiit treating them differently than other races treated them. I'd probably imagine it is the same way that humans view apes, that they are related but don't really have a fraternal bond with them. Although there are likely exceptions.

Another thing is that not all Khajiit look like cats, Ohmes (the type from Arena) look like Bosmer and they are just as much of a Khajiit as the other kinds.

[VelothiConservative]

I'm not what the lore says about the relations between cats and Khajiit. There are cougars in Oblivion and I don't remember any Khajiit treating them differently than other races treated them. I'd probably imagine it is the same way that humans view apes, that they are related but don't really have a fraternal bond with them. Although there are likely exceptions.

Another thing is that not all Khajiit look like cats, Ohmes (the type from Arena) look like Bosmer and they are just as much of a Khajiit as the other kinds.

I'm aware of the khajiit lunar morphology. The khajiit, despite some variations like ohmes being more elven-like, are a race with distinct feline qualities and identity. One would think that the khajiits, which unlike real humans, live on a planet with several intelligent humanoids, would have some kind of special relationship with cats and cougars, given their similarity. I suspect bethesda simply haven't thought much about it yet.

[LoneWolfEkburg]

Well, sabrecats are also feline and Khajiits don't have any special relationships with them. 3DNPC, a popular mod for Skyrim, adds a Khajiit who openly proclaims that she has a sentient mind, and, as such, has more in common with a Nord then with a Sabre Cat. I bet most Khajiit have a similar attitude.

[Br3admax]

Khajiit aren't related to cats in anyway, at least not in the context that you are thinking off. The Khajiit where created by Azura, from a proto-Bosmer offshoot group, at least that's the most commonly accepted theory. That meaning that the Khajiit share the same ancestral origins as the Mer and Man, some Khajiit even look almost identical to Bosmer, and this is determined not by genetics, but by the phases of the moon. The other feline creatures are just creations of Kynareth, no different than than a dog, or a deer, or whatever.

[VelothiConservative]

I suppose it must be some kind of logical gap in lore then. There must be some reasonable explaination for the similarity of cats and khajiit, even though such an explaination hasn't yet been conjured up by bethesda.

[Marelo]

Convergent evolution happens in the real world. I see no reason it couldn't in TES.

Either way, it's magic. Just because one thing is cat-like and another thing is cat-like, that doesn't imply they come from the same source. Azurah's the one who made 'em that way in the first place. There's nothing saying she had to make the other cats, or had to make them out of other cats. Remember that before Azurah and Y'ffre came along, the proto-Bosmer and proto-Khajiit Aldmer were just shifting wildly from plant to beast to humanoid and back again, constantly.

[Woodhouse]

Maybe Azura was inspired by Kynareth, or perhaps the other way around.

[LoneWolfEkburg]

Azura wuves her kittenz.

[GodsBePraised]

For what it's worth, a Khajiit tale in Skyrim says that the Sabre Cats in Skyrim are a devolved version of a Khajiit strain...

[Marelo]

I've heard that twice now and I can't seem to find a source for it. Care to point me in the right direction?

[BetaB17]

I've heard that twice now and I can't seem to find a source for it. Care to point me in the right direction?

It's a fanfic tale/story.. meaning in all fairness it cannot be regarded as canon and thus really can't be taken seriously

Personally I do believe Khajiit are vastly distinct to other cat species. Tamriel presents a vast variety of species, yet how often do you ever hear people coming certain creatures to men within the series I will like to add to the proto-bosmer part, they were fairly chaotic in regards to appearance and form. To see Azura favoring a few and altering them to a new image, for Azura to see a cat and think "I'll make them look like that!" is actually not too far fetched. This doesn't necessarily mean they must be related, but inspiration held it's part. With that bit out of the way.. let me propose my thought. We know how the Khajiit are fairly diverse in shape in connection to the moons. We also know that proto-bosmer were constantly shifting forms till after the Green Pact.. Do you see the similarity? Both were or still are subject to vast physical change, yet were genetically still the same.

Keep in mind that paragraph was fairly watered down, but I think I got my suggestion through

Also, I'll like to make mention of the Ka Po' Tun. While at this point it's only speculation, but some do believe there is a link between them and the khajiit, be it by origin or similar factors. Personally, I believe them to be from a completely different strand than the Khajiit, being more likely to be related to many of the wild feline species present in Tamriel. Maybe Azura wasn't the only one to make a Feline mortal race I'm looking at you Kynareth

[Minor Edits]

I believe you are talking about The Tale of Dro'zira, which seems to claim Wulfharth used the thu'um to create the Senche.

[Marelo]

That seems to be the one, Minor Edits. Thanks.

[OblivionDuruza]

As others have said, yes there are regular cats. There were even cats in Daggerfall.

They also make a reappearance in The Elder Scrolls: Online, in the regions of the Daggerfall Covenant, and likewise bear no relation to the Khajiit.

I would posit that Khajiit and cats are no more alike than the Khajiit might be with Skyrim's sabre cats or Cyrodiil's lions, both of which bear a physical resemblance to one subspecies or another of Khajiit, but don't seem to have genetic or other biological or racial ties.

[Dark Spark]

I would reconcile it by thinking the Khajiit are some blended 'accident' * of elves and cats. Some spell, cast long ago by an elven shaman trying to assume the form of a predatory big cat. We see this well enough in werewolf legends: some mage trying to take on the power of a wolf and instead becoming cursed into something in between. The Khajiit obsession with the moons' cycles suggest that.




* All miracles are accidents.

[the Savage Hippie]

Aren't the mountain lions in Oblivion feline?

[Minor Edits]

I would reconcile it by thinking the Khajiit are some blended 'accident' * of elves and cats. Some spell, cast long ago by an elven shaman trying to assume the form of a predatory big cat. We see this well enough in werewolf legends: some mage trying to take on the power of a wolf and instead becoming cursed into something in between. The Khajiit obsession with the moons' cycles suggest that.




* All miracles are accidents.

Accidents, or the engineered footsoldiers of Auri-El's army?

[Dark Spark]

Ever saw Jurassic Park? Genetic engineering is no miracle. More like a disaster film.

[Minor Edits]

Yes, but I don't think that old guy had enough magicka to pull it off...

[OblivionDuruza]

The jump from Arena to Daggerfall to Morrowind and beyond certainly would seem to provide some sort of a basis for such a theory to be accepted. Azurah, more than Auri-El, might be the one to thank or blame, as the case may be.