debate on allowing any race to play in any alliance

[stevar]

Hello,

The explorer pack announcement means that you could potentially play any race in any alliance.

Even if it sounds good at first I am wondering if this is a good idea.

I would like to see if you can just pick any race or if there will be some "tweaks to it"
Like if you are an orc on the summerset isles, could you expect to be kiled by a passing mage who took you for a spy?
If I play an high elve there I might not be "happy" to see a group of argonians passing by.


What is your take on it?

[Musicman247]

I think it's fine. People were complaining when they announced you could only be in certain alliances when you played as certain races. Now people are complaining when they change it. Kind of proves you can't please everybody.

[skullclutter]

I think it's a good idea.

This means I can go questing with a friend of mine who's main is in a different alliance, and I can explore all of Tamriel currently available without having to make an alt in each one. (Although I probably will, anyway)

[stevar]

I think it's a good idea.

This means I can go questing with a friend of mine who's main is in a different alliance, and I can explore all of Tamriel currently available without having to make an alt in each one. (Although I probably will, anyway)

I think it is not the case. You still cannot go questing with a player form another alliance in his own territory. You are still in ennemy alliances.
You can be in his alliance regardles of your race, that is slightly different.
So if my understanding is correct, yo umight not be able to explore all of tamiriel wihtout making alternate charasters... or being exploring in ennemy territory.

I am in fact very curious to know how they plan to manage that. A dominion character moving in Daggerfall ...


.

[Marelo]

You can't go to enemy provinces except as part of endgame content, and when you do, you won't be encountering players from the other alliances. At least, according to the latest info I've seen.

[Leckan]

I kind of think it's a bad idea since it largely defeats the purpose of the factions.

[farore]

I like the idea. I always create a Bosmer character, as I love archery and they are the best. Being restricted in any way by my race would suck.

[Marelo]

I kind of think it's a bad idea since it largely defeats the purpose of the factions.

How so? The purpose of factions in any MMO is generally to fuel PVP and gate content.

The races available to those factions are mostly a cosmetic/roleplaying matter. That doesn't interfere with PVP or content gating at all.

[Leckan]

I kind of think it's a bad idea since it largely defeats the purpose of the factions.

How so? The purpose of factions in any MMO is generally to fuel PVP and gate content.

The races available to those factions are mostly a cosmetic/roleplaying matter. That doesn't interfere with PVP or content gating at all.

Story-wise, it's races with loyalty to their own races and lands having coinciding interests working together to better suit their goals. Nords/Dunmer/Argonians, Breton/Redguard/Orsimer, and Altmer/Bosmer/Khajiit. We are taking the opportunity to be part of a huge moment in ES history.

Game-wise, there's also a strategy element in the game. Each race adds different strengths and weaknesses to their factions which have to be played against one-another. They have been making it so you can have either cake or pie, you cannot have both. You can be Redguard or Bosmer, you can be an Templar or a Sorcerer, etc. But now it's possible to be fighting an army of Redguards, Bretons, and Orcs... from the Aldmeri Dominion.

[Chaos the N'wah]

I have to agree with Leckan, this makes the factions seem pointless outside of PvP (Racial identity/pride aside); just asking where you'd like to start the game until 50 with needless barriers into the other faction lands like a large preschool with 3 teachers doing different things and making sure you stay in the right class until you learn to color in the lines.

I'd rather they treat the player as a mercenary or privateer and let them roam freely unless in PvP, signing up with whatever faction per campaign, with benefits for staying with the same faction longer. Leave the patriotism to be self RP'd (Still Khajiit fighting for my country)

It does make me wonder how faction populations will turn out...

[Marelo]

Spoiler:

I kind of think it's a bad idea since it largely defeats the purpose of the factions.

How so? The purpose of factions in any MMO is generally to fuel PVP and gate content.

The races available to those factions are mostly a cosmetic/roleplaying matter. That doesn't interfere with PVP or content gating at all.

Story-wise, it's races with loyalty to their own races and lands having coinciding interests working together to better suit their goals. Nords/Dunmer/Argonians, Breton/Redguard/Orsimer, and Altmer/Bosmer/Khajiit. We are taking the opportunity to be part of a huge moment in ES history.

Game-wise, there's also a strategy element in the game. Each race adds different strengths and weaknesses to their factions which have to be played against one-another. They have been making it so you can have either cake or pie, you cannot have both. You can be Redguard or Bosmer, you can be an Templar or a Sorcerer, etc. But now it's possible to be fighting an army of Redguards, Bretons, and Orcs... from the Aldmeri Dominion.

On the contrary, I think a lot of their design decisions have been focused on giving the player as much of both cake and pie as possible while still making room for MMO mechanics. The class system, for example, is purportedly so flexible that any class can wind up filling any role if you just develop the appropriate skill lines. The fact that you can quest in other factions' lands at all is itself a concession to that philosophy; most MMOs don't allow even that.

Freedom of choice and lack of limitation is something they emphasize (and advertise) quite heavily.

And something to keep in mind is that it looks like the ability to choose your own faction with any race is limited to pre-orders, at least for now. As time goes on, the proportion of people with that ability will go down, and you'll wind up with more lore-friendly population ratios. And it's perfectly natural, realistic, and lore-friendly to see at least some people of any race within any given area, as the games have always included that. It would be much more unrealistic if it were totally impossible for any one Dunmer player to fight for the Dominion or Covenant, for example. The races are not ideologically pure monoliths.

[Mattbott]

do people choose their race cos of what they will look like, or what their faction is? probably what they look like (skills, equipment as well) and what their friends are doing

Does it really matter much what races a faction consists of? I don't think so. Also, these players are heroes, not npc farmers and barkeepers - heroes often break the mould

you could introduce a 1 single player initiation quest for people who wanted to join "opposition" factions, get them to earn their badge. You could also give different rewards for champions of a faction based on their race, and have "traitors" pursued by assassins if the game wanted to recognise a member of a race is not fighting for "their" faction. This would all add extra danger and therefore fun to the whole endeavour

[Orz]

I'm actually impressed by this strategy. It allows for majority of the players in each alliance to be composed mostly of the alliance's constituent races, while allowing a minority (the preorderers) to be different races. After all, In every province that the elder scrolls has visited so far, there has always been members of every race. Why should there be only three races in each province in ESO? Too bad ESO is such a money vacuum, otherwise I'd preorder it.

[stevar]

Well, If they keep it limited to pre-order only, then yes I d say I like it.
I am just afraid to see some races domintate simply because they can be picked in any alliance. But if it is limited to the pre-orders then yeah why not.
After all, people who pre-order are TES fan mainly I guess.

[Jeelius-Tei]

I find forced PVP stupid in general. PVE (player vs environment) never causes fights. But PVP almost always will start a fight, and that is a major problem. PVP should always be optional.

[tatortodd22]

I think it's a good call. This will draw some focus off "racial war" and make it more of a "political war", as it should be. The developers want there to be a sense of faction pride. That's fine. But I don't think we should make racial pride an encouraged community element. Political goals and philosophies however should be greatly encouraged. I didn't pick the Aldmeri Dominion because "they have my favorite races," I picked them because I like their political histories and cultural values.

Saying that you cannot be a Breton in the Ebonheart Pact is like saying there were zero Germans in the United States during World War II. They were likely persecuted by both their homeland and their neighbors, but they supported America because the lifestyles and values that the United States embodies was more to their liking than the German cultural and political agenda. I am entirely for it. You don't even need to pay more. You just need to walk down to Gamestop and tell them "Yeah, I'm going to buy it."

This business model will keep these players as minorities in the alliances, but still maintain that sense of realism and focus on political and cultural motivations, instead of the short-sighted racial standpoint.

PS: I understand that the Elder Scrolls lore has a natural tendency to throw these races against each other, but this is just what I would like to see more of out of the ES universe.

[toast123]

it dosent bother me to much as im pretty sure you already see other alliances races as npcs in other alliances

[BetaB17]

Personally, I like and have my issues with it<_< to be fair, whether races are locked to certain alliances or not, people will complain

:

I for one am fully content with the Imperial race. Now do I wish for the content to eventually be open for public rather than exclusive, yes. Do I have any issue with some of the other bonuses.. sort of, but none that relate to vanity items, after all that's a MMORPG classic(as I've been told). Really the underlying problem for me on most matters is whether exclusive content great an unfair advantage over those lacking funds>_> People are generally fine with exclusive stuff when purely cosmetic or a large set of content(i.e expansions). And due to the subscription, you don't have to pay for everything since your already funding it's progression>_> as opposed to many Free-2-Play, but I should digress

In regards to Alliances, it helps to create a self identity. So while you could be proud of your Altmer, you recognize yourself with the Dominion. We see this play off very effective in World of Warcraft, it creates a struggle of strength and pride between the opposing sides, rather than races.. which ignites more flames than you'll think plus, it's rather obvious the abundant amount of nords that will be flooding Online.. but wouldn't it strike you odd to see a large majority of them to side with the Dominion? Conflict of interest and culture.. why would man fight for the dominance of Mer... against other themselves... While in small doses this could work, as a whole it just derails the core concept that so many people were looking forward to. Plus.. I find it very confusing in a siege to know who my enemy is instantly amongst the chaos.. We need that sense of conflict, something MMORPG's know well

On the other hand, people like freedom, mobility, and the ability to play with friends who normally wouldn't pair with you due to Races locked in certain Alliances. Maybe somebody wants to be an Orc siding with the Ebonheart? Not many, but just a few. Personally, I would like it if two friends from opposing sides could adventure together, and so long as their together, can travel into one another's region. It gives a chance for Guilds to flourish and add more to the adventure that mere PvE could never supply. Granted certain events would be prohibited when pairing together, like no sieges or certain quests. Plus when in Cyrodill, it's just fair game<_< while b4 when you escorted your friend through Black Marsh.. unfriendly Argonians can pick off your buddy once out of the swamps.. Another thought on the matter, while I do dislike the mere open feature of the races. I actually wouldn't complain much if they held off the feature till later in session, see how things fare, then release an exclusive feature allowing players to be who they want where they want while yes I did oppose earlier on how some exclusive content create issues>_> this is more of a compromise to the small group that do desire it. Allow people to identify with the Alliance and their race that it represents. This adds on to the small doses I mentioned earlier, and honestly, you wouldn't feel pressured into anything. Partly because the feature was with-held deliberately till a later date, and who knows, re-spark some interest.

Still, take my words like you would a grain of salt. These thoughts I present are of the spur of the moment and in the rawest of forms. While if I did choose to refine it<_< it would merely boil down to; if you tweak the mechanic and not compromise it things should be okay. So really agree, disagree, or find your own conclusion from mine or any other's post. All that really matters is if the game can reach it's highest potential while staying true to the series

[stevar]

I like your comment.

I think the relative minority of people who will do it for now is acceptable, as long as they do not open it later.
Only pre-order. Most of pre-order are ES fan. Most of whom like the race separation.
With the little impact Race choice has on play mechanics, people who choose to be an orc in EP will do so because they love the orcs and most of their friends choose EP instead of DC.
Yet if they love the orcs... why not play them as ORCS? why play them as renegate orcs?

Next consideration:
Yet, if you'r a redguard and you travel in DC with a bosmer. Why can t my ORC just bash his head against a rock ?
You want to go to the other side, then you should be open for PVP against you

[OblivionDuruza]

The way I see it, ZeniMax Online didn't intend on including playable Imperials, and a portion of the community were upset by this decision. A portion of that portion complained very vocally about the decision and ZeniMax devoted resources to implementing the Imperials into the game as a playable race. Now those fans who were disappointed by the absence of the Imperials have the option to play as them in-game, but those who didn't care don't have to pay a dime extra for the pleasure of never playing them.

The same is true for the decision to allow players to choose to play as any race in any faction if they so desire, but not forcing it upon everyone. Sure the development effort might have been less, but it was effort they weren't originally going to make and effort that they only did make because so many people complained about the restrictiveness of the factions (and even about how 'stupid' the alliances were as a concept).

ZeniMax deserves to be paid for its effort as a producer, but because they've chosen to place the cost of this added development effort onto only those who freely choose to accept it, rather than upon everyone, they've been made out to be the bad guys by a small group of people who expect everything for nothing (the same group who want the game to fail and go F2P, even though ZeniMax needs to maintain hardware in the form of servers, and will continue to develop for the game post-launch with patches and new content - things they'll still expect if it goes F2P). Those kind of people are also the sort that probably would expect slot machines to be free to play if they were sent back in time to the arcades of old.

[Jun Satou]

Reason for: Why can't a Breton have an Argononian buddy D:? (et c.)

Reason against: SPIES!

[House of the Wolf]

As far as the dissolution/blurring of factions: blah--nothing intelligent to contribute, just simply "blah". It's neither good nor bad, just is what it is.

As far as the other portions that have been brought up here and elsewhere regarding the Collector's Edition, nickle'n'diming, etc: in the end, video games (especially of the online variety) are mutually-beneficial cash-cows. Why mutually-beneficial? If you like the game, and appreciate the prettiness/awesomeness of the work, you shouldn't fully mind paying for it--particularly for online-centred (MMOs, MOBAs, etc) games, given the exorbitant maintenance and security issues that come with them. So anyone complaining about having to pay "extra" really don't seem to understand two fundamental elements in the whole equation: 1) Pretty much what I just said, and 2) With all games, in general, developers are able to charge increasingly higher prices (or just nickle'n'dime more frequently) because enough people continue to buy it.



If that's somehow tl;dr
If you don't agree with the price, don't buy it. It's a game they play that, fortunately, you don't actually have to. Pun intended, damnit.

[Heinrich]

I for one do not want to see Nords in the AD or Altmer in the EP.

However, I am not against certain other "unfaithful" races such as an Orc in the AD (which lore-wise would be perfectly fine since Orcs are a common race living in Valenwood!), or an Argonian turning his back on the EP, etc.

But Nords and Altmer being friends? Please.

[Skrofler]

But Nords and Altmer being friends? Please.

Indeed, almost as improbable as Argonians and Dunmer...

[OblivionDuruza]

What is so confusing about Argonians and Dunmer working together, exactly? The Dunmer enslave Argonians, in part because they believe that 'civilising' the Argonians is part of their duty in lifting them out of savagery/barbarism - i.e. Dunmer don't hate Argonians. At the same time, the Argonians now have the opportunity to earn status and prove that they are the Dunmers' equals, and they're not stupid enough to miss that opportunity.

Likewise, the Altmer hate the militant humans (who slaughtered Elves in their thousands), but are not so aggrieved that they would instantly reject a human whose objective was not to kill Elves. Similarly, the Nords aren't all intolerant of Elves, despite how some revel in their ancestors' massacring of the inhabitants of Tamriel upon their arrival from Atmora.