Blades or Greybeards?

[Ursula R. M.]

And it is only usuable at the throat of the world. If we did get the idea on our own, we wouldn't have a clue of where to use it.

And it is only useful because the Devs made it so. Paarthurnax, the greybeards, and the blades are all equally useless when it comes to facing dragons, since you only need to shout a rare few times on Alduin, and after that, they cease to be useful.

Dragonborn>all who "help" the Dragonborn.

O.k. your opinion, and that is what we are all doing here, giving our 2cents. My 2 cents, I use at least 4 of MY shouts regularly and have tried all of them it is a great way to get an upperhand, if you choose to use it or not is a choice. O.K?

[LordAshton]

And it is only usuable at the throat of the world. If we did get the idea on our own, we wouldn't have a clue of where to use it.

And it is only useful because the Devs made it so. Paarthurnax, the greybeards, and the blades are all equally useless when it comes to facing dragons, since you only need to shout a rare few times on Alduin, and after that, they cease to be useful.

Dragonborn>all who "help" the Dragonborn.

O.k. your opinion, and that is what we are all doing here, giving our 2cents. My 2 cents, I use at least 4 of MY shouts regularly and have tried all of them it is a great way to get an upperhand, if you choose to use it or not is a choice. O.K?

IT is not opinion, it is fact. The Blades and the Greybeards are useless because they are not needed. A lot of places that have word walls also have quests attached, and you do not even need shouts to kill dragons for the most part. The Shouts are mostly a formality, and being Dragonborn is only important for keeping Alduin from raising Dragons again.

[Kerr]

The Greybeards despite not really agreeing with their philosophy. The Blades want to kill dragons for being dragons which I can't really get behind. The Greybeards are good people in spite of everything and they helped me learn to use my powers. Sure Paarthurnax might have been bad in the past but he has redeemed himself by the time the game takes place.

[LordAshton]

The Greybeards despite not really agreeing with their philosophy. The Blades want to kill dragons for being dragons which I can't really get behind. The Greybeards are good people in spite of everything and they helped me learn to use my powers. Sure Paarthurnax might have been bad in the past but he has redeemed himself by the time the game takes place.

Dragons, by there very nature are evil, being beasts. The dragonborn, however is a mortal, bit a true dragon, therefore is much stronger in his/her morality than a dragon.

And just because Paarthurnax is good now, it does not mean he will always be good from now on. Resistance is only a matter of time, not willpower

[perylousdemon]

The Greybeards despite not really agreeing with their philosophy. The Blades want to kill dragons for being dragons which I can't really get behind. The Greybeards are good people in spite of everything and they helped me learn to use my powers. Sure Paarthurnax might have been bad in the past but he has redeemed himself by the time the game takes place.

Dragons, by there very nature are evil, being beasts. The dragonborn, however is a mortal, bit a true dragon, therefore is much stronger in his/her morality than a dragon.

And just because Paarthurnax is good now, it does not mean he will always be good from now on. Resistance is only a matter of time, not willpower

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Dragon War a few thousand years ago, at least? If Paarthurnax has been good for this long, I doubt he'll be changing his stripes anytime soon. He's trying to get the other dragons to follow his example, not Alduin's.

[LordAshton]

The Greybeards despite not really agreeing with their philosophy. The Blades want to kill dragons for being dragons which I can't really get behind. The Greybeards are good people in spite of everything and they helped me learn to use my powers. Sure Paarthurnax might have been bad in the past but he has redeemed himself by the time the game takes place.

Dragons, by there very nature are evil, being beasts. The dragonborn, however is a mortal, bit a true dragon, therefore is much stronger in his/her morality than a dragon.

And just because Paarthurnax is good now, it does not mean he will always be good from now on. Resistance is only a matter of time, not willpower

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Dragon War a few thousand years ago, at least? If Paarthurnax has been good for this long, I doubt he'll be changing his stripes anytime soon. He's trying to get the other dragons to follow his example, not Alduin's.

He is trying to dominate them into the way of the voice. If that is not evil in it's own way, I do not know what is.

[perylousdemon]

He is trying to dominate them into the way of the voice. If that is not evil in it's own way, I do not know what is.

Eh, maybe. But he's not trying to kill/enslave everyone like Alduin. In fact, he's trying to prevent that by reining in the other dragons. I would classify that as a comparatively "good" action.

[The SheoDovah]

Parthy is not trying to dominate the dragons. He seeks help his kind to overcome their nature and by the end of the game, he has had a fair amount of successful. In the thousands of years since the Dragon War, he has had plenty of time to take over the world. He has not and is constantly at war with his nature. Without the greybeards, no-one would have known that a dragonborn had been found and we would not have learned about Alduin's weakness.

I severely doubt that the Blades would have known due to them losing all of their dragon lore back in the Great War and they have a genocidal attitude to all dragons. And they don't really do that much apart from forcing the Dovahkiin to break into the Thalmor embassy because of Delphine and just use them. They don't even discuss their plans with the Dovahkiin, most of the time and the main plot could survive without them. Unlike the greybeards due to Paarthy and his knowledge of how to learn the one shout that all Dragons fear. Even Alduin himself. Without him, we would have continued fighting Alduin untill we died due to him being immortal and unable to die. Dragonrend renders him mortal and enabled the dragonborn to kill him.

As for shouts not being neccessary, it's an opinion. As i've said, most people use shouts against teh dragons and other enemies. Just because you don't, it doesn't mean it's unneccessary.

[Kerr]

As said, I'm not going to kill someone just for being a Dragon. Maybe he will try killing people in the future. But when you think about it anybody could turn evil and start killing people in the future. I'm willing to take the risk.

[Aranel]

Honestly the Dragonborn is just as likely to become a menace, if not even more, than dragons in Skyrim - stealing, looting, murdering... Heck, the whole story in Skyrim can see the Dragonborn going from a morally upright person to, if you keep playing that save and do everything possible, possibly one of the worst villains of all. (ie: If you just start killing everyone, etc)

Anyways,
"What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" (As from Paarthurnax)
You can be born good, which is great and all... But I find it highly commendable that an "evil" creature could dominant and change its own "natural" will to overcome the "evil nature" through its own effort - in a way, it's like making itself a "self-made hero." (if that makes sense? Hero might not be the correct word or whatever, but still.)

[Ursula R. M.]

I see it looks to be majority favor Parth/Greybeards for all the right reasons. Good enough. But for the record, even if I was standing alone here, that would be O.K.too.

[LordAshton]

He is trying to dominate them into the way of the voice. If that is not evil in it's own way, I do not know what is.

Eh, maybe. But he's not trying to kill/enslave everyone like Alduin. In fact, he's trying to prevent that by reining in the other dragons. I would classify that as a comparatively "good" action.

HE is still forcing it on them, which they might not want. I may be willing to let him go, but I will not allow him to force beings into something that is not in their nature.

Evil is never good, no matter how you spin it.

[noobishlord]

HE is still forcing it on them, which they might not want. I may be willing to let him go, but I will not allow him to force beings into something that is not in their nature.

Evil is never good, no matter how you spin it.

Genocide is also never good, no matter how you spin IT as well. Letting Dragons live may be a necessary evil, something akin to Vampires or Werewolves, you can't really and fully wipe them out, but if you could control them, set them on a less destructive path...

[LordAshton]

HE is still forcing it on them, which they might not want. I may be willing to let him go, but I will not allow him to force beings into something that is not in their nature.

Evil is never good, no matter how you spin it.

Genocide is also never good, no matter how you spin IT as well. Letting Dragons live may be a necessary evil, something akin to Vampires or Werewolves, you can't really and fully wipe them out, but if you could control them, set them on a less destructive path...

you are still forcing them to do something they do not want to do. I understand Paarthurnax wanting to sit on a mountain all day doing nothing, but what he does at the end, it is just another form of Alduin's domination of them.

[The SheoDovah]

Paarthy doesn't force them to convert to the way of the voice. It is implied that he accepts any dragons that are willing to overcome their nature. He is in no position to flew around Skyrim and try to convert dragons as Alduin would notice him. And make him pay for his betrayal, provided he doesn't succumb to his nature. Not once has Paarthy forced his kind to obey his will.

[Dohva.]

This conversation is on topic, but I'd like to place a reminder to please be conscious of others when you are posting your opinions on the matter. People have various points of view which are all great. This is a community, first and foremost, so let's keep that in mind when posting. Conversations can't progress forward from going in circles. If this continues, the thread will be locked.

[The SheoDovah]

The blade did have a lot of potential from a story telling point. Had Bethesda not forced the Thalmor angle into it and put more effort into them, we could have had an interesting moral choice. Instead of what we got. The Greybeards were done just right. In my opinion and I just can't go against them.

Would have been interesting to discover more Blades lore in Skyrim and for them to use their heads to think outside of the box instead of serving to force us into the Thalmor angle. For example, visitng dragon ruins and Alduin's former seat of power on Nirn. Just make us feel like we're investigating the dragons.

The greybeards could have had more training the Dovahkiin sessions but i'm not that bothered by it.

[ElGreg]

I would go with the Greyebeards.
All moral/emotional/storyline baggage aside, they are more useful than the Blades imo.
The Blades only point you to dragon lairs whereas the Greybeards send you to Word walls.
That can save a lot of time if you're not into exploring caves etc. just for the fun of it.

[Crusader's Amour]

Greybeards. They may initially be a little too...pro-apocalypse for my liking but at least they respect me instead of treating me like their lackey. Plus a lot of the reasoning behind killing Paarth would be highly uncomfortable if followed to its logical conclusion: killing just because he's a dragon is stupid because spiritually speaking, the Dovahkiin is a dragon too. As for killing him because of his villainous history, a fair number of positive characters have villainous histories - nobody suggests that the Dragonborn should off Serana because of her history as a demon-worshiping vampire who lived in a castle where mortals were regularly eaten.

[Abishpulu Shand]

...nobody suggests that the Dragonborn should off Serana because of her history as a demon-worshiping vampire who lived in a castle where mortals were regularly eaten.

Er...I was actually very disappointed when I found out that chopping that monster's head off wasn't an option.

[philfredobob]

nobody suggests that the Dragonborn should off Serana because of her history as a demon-worshiping vampire who lived in a castle where mortals were regularly eaten.

To be fair, Isran suggests this multiple times.

[perylousdemon]

nobody suggests that the Dragonborn should off Serana because of her history as a demon-worshiping vampire who lived in a castle where mortals were regularly eaten.

To be fair, Isran suggests this multiple times.

True, but that's only because he, like the Blades with dragons, wants to kill vampires simply because of what they are. He's prejudiced. Just because most vampires or dragons are evil beings who want nothing more than to wreak havoc doesn't mean they're all like that. It's a sort of "All apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples" deal. And that's my problem with the Blades. Greybeards all the way for me.

[philfredobob]

nobody suggests that the Dragonborn should off Serana because of her history as a demon-worshiping vampire who lived in a castle where mortals were regularly eaten.

To be fair, Isran suggests this multiple times.

True, but that's only because he, like the Blades with dragons, wants to kill vampires simply because of what they are. He's prejudiced. Just because most vampires or dragons are evil beings who want nothing more than to wreak havoc doesn't mean they're all like that. It's a sort of "All apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples" deal. And that's my problem with the Blades. Greybeards all the way for me.

Yes, I know. I'm not arguing against that point, I'm in support of Parthuurnax and the Greybeards.

[Crusader's Amour]

Isran never makes any serious attempt to harm Serana or to get you to harm her, though. He just gripes a lot about he'd really like to harm her. And she snarks back about how she wants to eat him.

[Resolute Crusader]

And it is only usuable at the throat of the world. If we did get the idea on our own, we wouldn't have a clue of where to use it.

And it is only useful because the Devs made it so. Paarthurnax, the greybeards, and the blades are all equally useless when it comes to facing dragons, since you only need to shout a rare few times on Alduin, and after that, they cease to be useful.

Dragonborn>all who "help" the Dragonborn.

As if the dragonborn ever needs help aside from being flown by odahviing