INTERESTING??!!

[K Candyman]

Heey peepz,

Was just checking youtube when i came accros this, Elder Srcolls Lore Series:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBnatzluzNE this is one episode.

I found it really interesting and don't like to read the lore books in game so this is very easy for me:P

[OblivionDuruza]

I saw that video a while back, and I have to say that I found it to be only partially accurate. For example, the claim that Dunmer are the longest-lived race on Tamriel is untrue, and unsupported by any lore. Further, the claim that the Dunmer enslave humans, or view them as no better than beasts, is also untrue and there is nothing in the lore that supports this view (particularly the part about slavery). In fact, there's no real evidence of any "eleven supremacy" within the Dunmeri culture.

The false assumptions of the creator of the video, are somewhat common, but totally ignore thw ords of key developers, such as these:

You're supposed to be an outsider here, so it puts you into that mindset. […] No, he [the PC]'s just not born here. He can be, you know, whatever he wants. Even if you play Dark Elf, you're still not born here. So, they still treat you as an outsider.

Even in the game Morrowind, visiting as a beast race, you are known as an Imperial citizen and are NOT looked at as a slave or a worthy slave. You are treated as any other Imperial citizen. Argonians and Khajiit alike.

Other inaccuracies include the claim the Dunmer welcome Daedra worship (the Orders of War and Inquisition beg to differ), when in fact the Tribunal made concerted efforts to root out Daedra worship in the province. Additionally, the part of Boethiah is misrepresented in the exodus of the Chimer. Boethiah did not instigate or insight the exodus, the prophet Veloth was the figure who lead the Chimer from Summerset. Further, while Azura changed the Chimer, as mother of Morrowind it is not generally held to be a curse.

[K Candyman]

as they said in the vid:

I'm not perfect, and I promise you now, with a series as ambitious as this, I will slip up. I'm counting on the lore masters out there to serve as a last line of defense in my fact checking. If you find a mistake, feel free to leave a correction in the comment section below, and make sure to include a source, or it will be ignored. NOTICE I SAID MISTAKE, not if I left something out, because I will come back to it later. Any corrections I'll be forced to make will appear as video annotations, but if I do my job right this will be a rare occurrence. Oh, and sorry in advance for butchering the punctuation of any names!

just sayin if it interesting and in big lines gives more detailed information on some matters;)

[OblivionDuruza]

I accept that totally, however, I think it's important to acknowledge that there is a difference between a mistake, and many inaccuracies. There is no substitute for primary evidence, but for someone who is trying to 'teach' lore to a large group of people, I would expect some more thorough research.

As a side note, I did actually leave a comment or two when I first watched the video, and got no response (to my knowledge - YouTube can be fineky, I will acknowledge).

[The SheoDovah]

I think the video should have been placed into the Youtube thread as this doesn't really seem to fit into the lore of TES.

[K Candyman]

Ok Dovah, how to i change this to another thread??

@Duruza, I completely agree that his visions lack right info on some points, and indeed he does not reply but he will make that right in future vids(if I understand the quote above correctly)

But this seems like a good start up for new TES players who are interested in the lore, mainly background on races and the philisofy on the creation of the empire and Nirn.

[The SheoDovah]

You can't, only the corrupt and powerhungry lovely mods or the admins can move the thread. But i've let them know so it should be moved into multimedia later today if they don't lock it.

[K Candyman]

aaight thx!

[Br3admax]

You can just change the title of the OP yourself, OP to make it more about Lore. Dovah doesn't know that, but you don't need a mod to move it.

[OblivionDuruza]

In the video description the creator says that he'll acknowledge any errors with an annotation. Doing so would have been a good step, because I noticed my comments we not the only ones, and as you say, many new fans turn to video's like that one rather than primary source material from the games, or the words of the developers. As a result, it's important that videos like that get it right, because if they fail to do so, hundreds on thousands of people will be learning the wrong information about the TES universe.

[K Candyman]

I dont need to change the title i need to move it to another threat?
So...

[Br3admax]

Move to where, this is about lore inaccuracies at this point. It's fine here.

Anyway, I think that a few blemishes in the lore here and there is okay. Although completely ignoring the developers is kind of off putting.

[K Candyman]

yeah that's what I thought but Dovah wanted me to move this to multimedia because it is a link to youtube:P

[OblivionDuruza]

Honestly, this is a discussion for the Mod Team, moreso than us, so let's just focus on what we were discussing about the topic.

I agree, we should allow room for different interpretations, and indeed for error, in the 'field' of lore. It's just that I take issue with people overreaching in their claims based on a limited consideration of primary source material, when they try and make something that many people will accept as fact, and even as their only source of lore.

[Avron the S'wit]

Put this in TES General, since it's more a constructive critique than a lore discussion. Continue!

[K Candyman]

Honestly, this is a discussion for the Mod Team, moreso than us, so let's just focus on what we were discussing about the topic.

I agree, we should allow room for different interpretations, and indeed for error, in the 'field' of lore. It's just that I take issue with people overreaching in their claims based on a limited consideration of primary source material, when they try and make something that many people will accept as fact, and even as their only source of lore.

what you say is totally true!
mainly because in game there are different sources on the lore.
for example the civil war, has in game many different points of view, as wel outside the game as we see in discussions on this civil war.

But the vids he posted are according to what he says based on info he found ''in game'' I personal just like you have found some things that were different according to my sources but mainly the lore section on UESP

i don't overreact just saying this is an easy way to get some info on the lore if you do'n't want to read the in books

[OblivionDuruza]

Just to clarify, my comments are entirely about that specific video, honestly, I haven't seen enough of the guys' work as a whole to comment on him as a content creator, and I certainly wasn't commenting on you .

I'll also be frank with regard to the lore direction Skyrim has taken us in, which I'm still getting my head around. Suffice to say, I'm not the hugest fan of some of the revelations Shkyrim brought to the series, some of which directly contradict previous lore, but I guess that's just the ol' grump in my .

[CBR JGWRR]

I'd go with reading the wiki here and playing the games as a starting point, then onto The Imperial Library for the out of game bits UESP doesn't cover, and a different look at common things covered, then onto the weird stuff Michael Kirkbride comes up with and the official forums, but both should be taken with a pinch of salt.

I wouldn't bother with Youtube videos at any stage really.

[K Candyman]

I think the problem with the skyrim lore is that it contains a lot of events that we as player did not participate in (the whole great war thing) leaving a great gap in the lore and a lot of romm for discussion.

CBR indeed a good source of info, but i like the idea of lore vids cause i do not care too much for reading;)

[OblivionDuruza]

At one point or another I think there was actually talk around the UESP/Forums of making some videos. Heck, one day I might even make some videos about TES lore. There are certainly good ones out there, and I do feel the info from the UESP being transposed into a video format would be equally valid as any page from the UESP. The problem is when people overreach and add their own opinions or interpretations, or rumours, to the mix when they present information.

[K Candyman]

so if the wiki could make vid pure based on the lore, and not speculation that would be great!

[Minor Edits]

I love that series. I've watched a ton of TES lore videos on youtube, and that series is top-tier. Some other series take different approaches and go more in-depth, which I enjoy, but the ShoddyCast folks get an A for presentation.

That being said, there have been some inaccuracies. As they state in the description, that's bound to happen occasionally. And, to be totally fair, some of their mistakes were taken from erroneous information on the UESP. For instance, we described the Chimer as being "physically indistinguishable" from the Altmer, and they took our word for it in one of their videos. However, we've every reason to believe that the Chimer had a distinct skin tone, and likely had around the same appearance as Ayleids. Anyways, it's more of a black mark against the UESP when that happens than it is against them.

[OblivionDuruza]

But, for example in the case of the Chimer that you point out, the video takes that statement about appearance (which is not necessarily wrong, as there is no conclusive evidence either way), and then states that they were no different at all, when we know that the main demarcation between Aldmer and Chimer was ideological, not physical. This is what I mean by 'overreaching'.

[CBR JGWRR]

We do have the Chimeri half of Vivec to look at. Although that side of him looks Altmeri.

[Minor Edits]

There's also Almalexia. I believe it's reasonable to assume that she and the lighter side of Vivec represent the appearance of the Chimer, and they both have darker shading than Altmer.