Need some advice (Questlines, Sensible perk spending)

[natolars]

Good evening.

Despite having spent almost all summer in Skyrim, I still consider myself a rookie. When I first started playing I tried a "pure mage" charachter, but I soon realized that I'm simply not good/experienced enough yet to pull that off. I'm far to ineffective in combat as a pure mage and tried a different approach that suits me better. So my charachter currently relies heavily on: Archery - Sneak - Smithing - Enchanting - Alchemy.

The thing is that I need some advice when it comes to spending perks. To fill these five perk trees takes quite a few perk points and I've decided to minimize perk spending in other trees. Three perk points in the Conjuration tree just to get "bound weapons cast soul trap on enemies" is convenient, but also unnecessary. A harder one is "speech". So far I've always spent perk points on haggling, allure, merchant and investor. I find it hard to make money without these, even though a Necklace of Haggling and the dragon priest mask Volsung makes things easier. The "Transmute" alteration spell has made things easier money-wise, and a welcome bonus is that it also raises smithing/enchanting skills if you make jewelry and enchant it.

I also need some advice about which quests/questlines it would be sensible to finish first. Since I rely on smithing "Elder Knowledge" is a no-brainer; "Lost to the Ages" would be useful to any player. I avoid starting the main questline right away, because fighting a dragon with a Long Bow is still a bit too challenging for me. I stay away from Solstheim even longer for the same reason. But apart from that, I feel I could use some input from players with more experience.

Bottom line: I want to become a more "effective" player and would appreciate some advice from more experienced players.

[baratron]

Tell us more about your current character. What level is he or she in each of the skills?

The problem with relying heavily on Smithing, Enchanting, and Alchemy is that they raise your overall level without increasing your combat ability. So, because of the way enemies increase in level with you, you can get to a point where your character fails miserably at battle. Given how much I love the crafting skills, I'm talking from bitter experience here!

Another thing I will say is that it's almost never necessary to fill an entire perk tree. In fact, after 1000 hours in Skyrim, I can't think of any tree which a character of mine has completely filled. Many of the perks, particularly in the mage skills, can be replaced with enchantments instead.

I'm also a little confused about how your character can be fighting dragons with a Long Bow rather than a Legendary Glass Bow with at least one enchantment on it. Or did you start a new character?

Let us know where you are now, and we'll be able to give you tailored advice.

[CBR JGWRR]

Have a look at this - http://uk.ign.com/builds/the-elder-scro ... rim/create

Gives you the perk trees for all skills, all you have to do is decide what seems like a good plan. As an example, this is Jennifere's (my altmeri main) at level 122 - http://uk.ign.com/builds/the-elder-scro ... 0000011111

This is after she has the luxury of resetting her perks from DLC, and resetting her smithing skill to 15 so that she could re-level it to 100 repeatedly, (17 resets from level 81 to 122) and takes every perk I use with her, but mainly she's a light armour wearing spellsword/thu'umsword as appropriate.


However, early on she's very different in her perk build. At level 11 (so 10 perks to choose) this is her - http://uk.ign.com/builds/the-elder-scro ... 0000000201

This time her perks are spread across 4 skills - conjuration for bound sword/bow, Destruction for range, one-handed for close up. Other skills she uses are archery and sneak, and as a character in gameplay terms, she's just completed Dragon Rising and has just bought Breezehome, with upgrades still finances dependant. Sometimes she has the necessary 7k to fully upgrade it, other times she has to enchant weapons with Stamina damage/turn undead and sell them on (usually the most valuable enchants she has to use)

By the time she is middle of the main quest we begin to see her perk out crafting skills as she switches from bound weapons to her native elven weapons - bound weapons still play a role for soul trapping, and much later on banishing daedra at a vastly reduced magicka cost than casting the actual banish spell, which is why level 122 Jennifere keeps them around.

By the end of the main quest she starts perking armour skills, as she can now start reaching the armour cap for damage resistance. Her crafting skills are either maxed or not far off - She gets dragonscale armour as a present to herself after defeating Alduin, to the best she can make it. By now she's mid 40's in level, and invested a fair bit of gold in Silda the Unseen to get Pickpocket up for the extra pockets perk. After that she maxes out the rest of her skills, either by spamming them, Oghma-ing them or via the mod Instant Mastery to reflect her being a demi-goddess.



At no point does she perk speech - if she needs more money she crafts potions and/or enchanted weapons. Similarly, at no point does she perk sneak despite her reliance on it for avoiding unnecessary fights. It's fairly overpowered in vanilla as it is above mid levels...

[natolars]

Tell us more about your current character. What level is he or she in each of the skills?

I've started a new game; currently playing at level 38. My charachter, Natolars, is a Dunmer and here are his skill levels.

Heavy Armor: 18 (No perks)
Block: 15 (No perks)
Two-Handed: 17 (No perks)
One-Handed: 23 (No perks)
Archery: 64 (Perks: 4X Overdraw)
Light Armor: 32 (No perks)
Sneak: 81 (Perks: 5X Stealth, Muffled Movement, Backstab, Deadly Aim, Assassin's Blade)
Lockpicking: 57 (No perks)
Pickpocket: 16 (No perks)
Speech: 77 (Perks: 1X Haggling, Allure, Merchant)
Alchemy: 85 (Perks: 4X Alchemist, Physician, Benefactor, 1X Experimenter)
Illusion: 21 (No perks)
Conjuration: 16 (No perks)
Destruction: 25 (No perks)
Restoration: 19 (No perks)
Alteration: 32 (No perks)
Enchanting: 70 (Perks: 4X Enchanter, Insightful Enchanter)
Smithing: 100 (All perks except "Dragon")

--------

Like my skill levels show: I do not enjoy (or survive) close combat with Draugr Deathlords equipped with Ebony swords or axes. I have always prefered a "stealthy" style of play; spotting enemies before they spot you and avoiding as much close combat as possible. A good example would playing through "Dishonored" without killing anyone. It was definitely more challenging than killing all of your enemies (or innocent civilians), but I enjoyed that approach the most. This is probably why quests involving Falmer and Dwemer ruins are favourites. The Falmer are sneaky little bast***s, but so am I.

However; it's possible that I'm "creating my own little prison" here. Maybe I can enjoy the game even more (if that is possible or healthy) if I let skills progress more "naturally". That's why I also would like some tips/advice when it comes to what questlines to start/finish first. Three or four questlines open at the same time can be a little chaotic.

BTW; "Long Bow and dragons" was an exaggeration. Right now I'm using a Daedric bow with a shock enchantment. I use a Daedric dagger with a fire enchantment for close combat.

[perylousdemon]

Well, there is always Auto Perk Stats Level, which completely gets rid of perk points and instead automatically grants you the benefits of any perks you qualify for. It also automatically levels you and increases your health, magicka, and stamina according to your skills (which you can customize in the config file). I don't think that's what you're looking for, though. I use it simply because I find the perk system tedious and time-consuming. If you go this route, though, I think you'd have to start a new game. It would likely wreak havoc on your current one.

[baratron]

Tell us more about your current character. What level is he or she in each of the skills?

I've started a new game; currently playing at level 38. My charachter, Natolars, is a Dunmer and here are his skill levels.

Brilliant, thanks for typing that all in. Okay, if I understand it correctly, this is your current build. I should have also asked what your character's Health, Stamina, and Magicka are. Please could you let us know, because that will be useful?

Before I give you advice, a word of warning. These are my opinions based on 1000+ hours of Skyrim, but everyone plays their game differently. There is no single "correct" build for Skyrim. There isn't even a single "correct" build for a particular playstyle. For example, many people argue that putting anything at all into the Speech tree is a waste of perk points, but I personally love the Merchant perk and am happy to spend the three points required to get it. Also, everything I'm saying is a suggestion, not an order. But I don't want to waste time typing "You could try ..." before everything I suggest, since this post will be long enough already!

However, having read about the playstyle you prefer, I can see one big problem with your build. I'm going to assume that you're playing with the 1.9 patch because there is only one reason that I know of not to. (It has blocked a certain exploit. You don't sound like the sort of person who likes to use exploits, so I'm assuming that isn't a problem).

I have always prefered a "stealthy" style of play; spotting enemies before they spot you and avoiding as much close combat as possible.
...
Right now I'm using a Daedric bow with a shock enchantment. I use a Daedric dagger with a fire enchantment for close combat.

You've managed to fill both halves of the Smithing tree, therefore wasting a number of perk points which would be better spent elsewhere. At later levels, this isn't a problem - my level 83 character has all the Smithing perks except Daedric (since it goes against his religion). But at level 38, you need all the perks you can get.

So, given that you're sneaking everywhere and using Light Armor, smith yourself a couple of spare suits of armour and a couple of spare weapons (at least two of each), using your best enchanted smithing gear and Fortify Smithing potions. Then go into your Skills and choose to make the Smithing skill "Legendary". This resets it from Level 100 back to Level 15 - which is why you must make several spare armour and weapon sets first!

9 perk points will be released for spending elsewhere, and your build should look like this.

1) Immediately take the Eagle Eye perk in Archery. This is very useful to stealth archers because it lets you zoom in for more accurate targeting. I am personally not a fan of the Steady Hand perks, but some people love them. I would personally recommend at least the first Critical Shot perk. (2 perks spent, 7 left).

2) All of my characters have taken the perks Novice Alteration, Apprentice Alteration, and Magic Resistance (requires Level 30 Alteration skill). This provides 10% resistance to all magical attacks including dragons. Ultimately, you want to have all three of the Magic Resistance perks, but this requires Level 70 Alteration. (3 perks spent, 4 left).

3) All of my characters have the perks Novice Restoration, Regeneration (requires Level 20 Restoration skill), and Respite (requires Level 40 Restoration skill). It's very useful to be able to heal yourself (and allies) 1.5 x as much for the same Magicka expense, and it's extremely useful to be able to restore Stamina. In fact, my characters mostly use healing spells to restore Stamina. You're a long way off Respite, but take the Novice Restoration perk now anyway. Save one perk for Regeneration because you're almost there. Magic skills level slowly, but it isn't much effort to get from Level 19 to Level 20 - or get one level's worth of training from someone. (1 perk spent and 1 saved to be spent soon, 2 left).

Note: These Alteration and Restoration perks are useful even if your character isn't intending to be a mage at all.

4) For your final 2 perk points, one must go into Alchemy immediately. Take the Snakeblood perk. It isn't in itself that useful, but you need it for Purity, which is extremely useful. (1 perk point spent, 1 left).

5) Save the last perk point. Now go and do some Smithing - get that skill back to at least Level 20. Spend that last perk point on Steel Smithing. (1 perk point spent, 0 left). Your build at this point should look like this.

Deep breath .


As for where you want to go next,

• You definitely want the Light Foot perk from the Sneak tree. It is so useful to be able to avoid triggering traps!
• Continue working on Smithing whenever you feel like it. I presume by now you've realised that you get more experience points for making expensive items, so mine ores with a pickaxe to get raw materials. Create jewellery and the most expensive armours you can. Also "temper" (improve) everything you pick up from enemies that isn't a complete waste (don't bother smithing Iron or Leather anything once you're past Level 30).
• Keep going with Enchanting until you get to Level 100 and can place two enchantments on each item. That's why you made the spare armours and weapons - because you're likely to get your Enchanting up to Level 100 before you get your Smithing back.
• You may also want to take points in the Light Armor skill to protect yourself when you end up in melee.

Also, it depends on whether you want to get back to magery. If so:

• Stealthy characters do well taking some of the Illusion perks (the four up to Quiet Casting), since that stops enemies responding to spells they cast, with the exception of "visible" spells like Candlelight.
• I would suggest levelling up Conjuration - Atronachs work well as "helpers", although they don't have a very good range at first. You will be able to level it up to some extent just by casting Soul Trap on enemies to get souls for enchanting.
• When stealth runs out and you end up in melee, Destruction spells such as Flame Cloak, Frost Cloak, and Lightning Cloak are very useful. Choose which one you use depending on the enemies you're fighting. Flame Cloak for Nords and Draugr, Frost Cloak against Dunmer on Solstheim (if you have Dragonborn), Lightning Cloak against mages. When in doubt, Flame Cloak is usually the right choice.

I'm thinking you might end up with a build that looks something like this. Note that if you keep playing this character past Level 65, you still have plenty of possibilities to add more perks!

That's why I also would like some tips/advice when it comes to what questlines to start/finish first. Three or four questlines open at the same time can be a little chaotic.

lol, I have at least 5 quests on the go at any given moment even before I get onto "miscellaneous objectives"! I like to save up quests that are in the same area and do them together. There is one particular Forsworn camp which is useful for both an Aedric and a Daedric quest...! Of course, it depends on how many spoilers you want. If you're playing through the game for the first time, I'd recommend simply exploring. Don't use fast travel, instead look for new places on your "radar".

I'd definitely recommend you do the Azura's Star quest, since either Azura's Star or the Black Star is far too useful for Enchanting and refilling enchanted weapons. Other than that, I'm not really sure. A lot of my favourite quests aren't part of a questline.

I can give you a list of dungeons which have quests that start when you get there, if that would be of interest?

[Khali]

Excellent advice given so far. I would follow all of it. Now for my two cents worth. Sooner or later your going to want to put some perks into your armor skill. This will mitigate some of the squishiness of your character.

As to quests, I have been doing the Civil War quest line right off. This will affect the main quest by removing a step, that is boring and a time waster in my opinion. Then I take a run through the Companions quest line, just to get access to the Skyforge weapons. Since you are a archer this will not affect you but you might keep it in mind for a melee type character.

[insolent1]

Archery: 64 (Perks: 4X Overdraw)

You should spend more perks on archery as most of them are very good and make a huge difference.
Power shot, Ranger and quick shot are must haves for any of my archers, these perks all synergise really well.
The critcal hit perk set is also very good.
The only perks my archers don't take are "steady hand" and "bullseye".

The quests that I always try to do early are
"Book of love" +15 magic resist, whats not to like about this
"Heart of Dibella" 10% bonus damage to opposite sex, this is better for females as most npcs are male
"Unfathomable Depths"

I don't power level smithing, alchemy or enchanting till my pc is level +35 as I enjoy the lower level stuff, it also means you miss out on less due to level jumping.

[Iamgoofball]

Go for the Sneak Roll on Stealth. So awesome.

Bows + Sneak is OP.