Saadia or Kematu

A place to discuss and ask questions about the fifth part of The Elder Scrolls series and its expansions
Jurazon
Layman
Layman
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:49 am
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PC, Xbox 360
Other Profiles: Xbox Live Gamertag: MUSTANGMAN82

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Jurazon »

Crusader's Amour wrote:^ According to this Wiki, the order of execution business is scripted and independent of any actions taken in game.
I find it hard to believe because with that playthrough, the only quests I had done at that point was the initial startup of the game, Bleak Falls Barrow, and Dragon Rising, and of course In My Time of Need. I hadn't even had ANY contact with the Thalmor or any agents at all. A short time later, I was just hunting some deer with my bow and I get attacked by the Thalmor that had the execution order. The point is moot though, because in my opinion, I still think Saadia is lying and betrayed Hammerfell to the Aldmeri Dominion. Therefore, I will continue to turn her over to Kematu in future playthroughs.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." --Edmund Burke
Timberwolf012
Associate
Associate
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:42 am
ES Games: Oblivion, Skyrim, TESO
Platform: Xbox 360, PS4

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Timberwolf012 »

dzio wrote:I think no one is telling the truth. Saadia is obviously lying because the idea of Aldmeri Dominion sending a group of Alik'r warriors after her to Skyrim makes no sense (I could probably buy that if this was happening in Hammerfell). Also, why would the agents of Aldmeri Dominion hide in some cave with bandits, when the Thalmor have visible presence in the province and run around kidnapping dissidents?

And I don't believe Kematu, because Saadia could get help from the Thalmor if she's their agent. After all there's plenty of them in Skyrim and they clearly have the power to protect her. I guess it's possible that they won't help her, because she's useless to them now, or maybe she screwed something up, but it still doesn't explain why she didn't stay in Tanneth in the first place. It is now under AD control and their agent responsible for them capturing the city would be not only safe there, but probably in a position of power and protected from retribution.
I completely agree with you and from a roleplaying standpoint I am in a real pickle because I just made an Altmer pure mage and I am playing like he is a Dominion sympathizer. Both stories Kematu and Saadia tell you to try and get you on their side is that the other person is siding with the Thalmor (with the assumption that in this Nord continent I would just automatically hate the Dominion.) From my standpoint I should just kill them both since they are badmouthing my people.

In the end I'll probably side with Saadia because all my characters in Skyrim have a soft spot for women.
User avatar
dzio
Champion
Champion
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:49 pm
ES Games: Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PC
Location: Poland

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by dzio »

I only complete either side when I'm playing a bad guy - I either kill Kematu because a contract is a contract and that's what I've been hired to do, or I side with him, because I expect the organized group of mercenaries to pay better than one woman on the run. With other characters I usually ignore the Redguards in Whiterun completely, or kill the bandits, listen to Kematu and leave, deciding that I don't want anything to do with this mess. It means leaving an unfinished quest in my journal, which can be annoying, but it works well with my role play.
Rule #137: Always waste time when you don't have any.
User avatar
BetaB17
World Class Eejít
World Class Eejít
Posts: 1441
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:13 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: Xbox
Status: Naughty Cake Boi
Other Profiles: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
UESPoints: 14
Location: Top of the world!

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by BetaB17 »

Ironic.. I complete both sides due to a loop hole.. Turn her in<_< kill him after the trade, I end up the happiest of all :mrgreen:
In truth, I do favor Saadia, simply due to the aggressive questioning by the opposition at random. Still, I can't say which side is wrong or right, thus I assume both. As with the cat in the both, until proven the cat is both dead and alive<_< you won't know till you check. I apply the same. Both sides are equally true and false, we won't know unless all the questions are answered.. which never will..
"I Seek Truth, Not For Power, But For Understanding"
~Former Steward of The Queen's Sweetrolls~
~Proud Disciple in the ways of Believe~
~Forever a UESP user~
[?]
User avatar
philfredobob
Master
Master
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:50 am
ES Games: Morrowind , Oblivion , Skyrim
Platform: PC
Status: Sick and tired, tired and sick.
Location: Irbid, Jordan

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by philfredobob »

The one thing that turns me off is the whole ''they are assassins sent by the dominion'' stuff. so the Thalmor hired a group of people from the country that despises them to dispose of a woman living in a city in which they have influence? this convinced me to go with Kematu.

We've seen that the Thalmor have their own people to deal with things. I can't see why they would waste time hiring a bunch of Alik'r Mercenaries to kill her off, when they could do the same thing themselves without difficulty.
My Pokemon signature :
''I HAVE ARRIVED , AND I'M FABULOUS''
User avatar
moonsugarkind
Novice
Novice
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:33 pm
ES Games: Arena, Skyrim
Platform: PC
Status: what a beautiful duwang
Other Profiles: steam: rcgni2003
Location: Honeyside
Contact:

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by moonsugarkind »

Usually in these situations, I tend to go with the one laying low, but there's really no way to know who's telling the truth. Do I believe the group of men that's holing up with bandits and pestering Redguard women on the major roads or do I believe the woman that held a dagger at me and aggressively questioned me? For all we know, they could be lying over the Dominion and Thalmor talk and it could be something totally domestic. How do we know that she didn't run away from him specifically?
Image

t̉ͫ̇o̼͕͍o̖̜̙͓̭͐́ͥ̈́ͅ ̭̠ͬmͥ̆u̗͍͔̪̓ͩͯ̊c͈͚̥̞̯͈ͬ̌h̥͚̄ͤ̂ͭ̐ͦ ̭͇ͥͣͦs̗͖̪̲̳̾͑u̫̣̯͚͓͍̝̐̍g̖̣̅̋a̞̲̥̦͎̳̣̾̈́r͔̘̩ ̊ͯͣr̪͊̂ͬȯ̙̃ͤ͌͆̈̊ͅt͇͖̍̈s̟̩̩͓̻̜͛̽ͣ͒͛ͪ̚ ͍̖͓̝͚̗ͦ̑́ͫ̄̌̄ͅt͖͚̮̒̉̂̒ͨh̐̀ͥͬẹ̙̰̹̤̀ͩ̍ͦ̾ͧ͊ ̊͐s̟̹̼ͯ̀̀͌̌ͯ̚ͅo̭̻̥̜̲͙̻͋̓̂u̥̩̥l͖̟̝͎̓̽͛
Marelo
Warder
Warder
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:38 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PC

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Marelo »

Jurazon wrote:
Crusader's Amour wrote:^ According to this Wiki, the order of execution business is scripted and independent of any actions taken in game.
I find it hard to believe
I have verified this before with the Creation Kit, looking at the actual game data. It happens randomly regardless of any other quest completion, starting at level 8.
tplink3r1
Layman
Layman
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:53 pm
Platform: PC

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by tplink3r1 »

3 thalmor are sent to kill you if you help Kematu...
CBR JGWRR
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 2925
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:04 am
ES Games: Skyrim, all DLC, Oblivion, GoTY and aniversary, arena
Platform: X360/PC, X360/PC, PC.
UESPoints: 2

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by CBR JGWRR »

tplink3r1 wrote:3 thalmor are sent to kill you if you help Kematu...
That's a separate event unrelated to this quest.
User avatar
The SheoDovah
Lord of the Shivering Isles
Lord of the Shivering Isles
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:15 am
ES Games: Oblivion:GOTY, Skyrim:Legendary edition
Platform: PS3.
Status: Beta now owns my Liver.
UESPoints: 12

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by The SheoDovah »

The Thalmor will always come after you due to it being a random encounter. It makes no sense at times depending on what you have done.
RANDOM SILLY STATEMENT AS SIGNATURE!
Praise Sheogorath!
User avatar
LordAshton
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:25 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PC
Other Profiles: Algalon310, Cromsonbrood

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by LordAshton »

Both are truthful and neither are. It all comes down to what you, the player, decides.
User avatar
Black_Dog
Novice
Novice
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:35 pm
ES Games: Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind
Platform: PC
Status: Strutting in the Blue Palace
Location: Solitude, Proudspire Manor

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Black_Dog »

I side with Saadia because Kematu offers a fine duel.
He whiffs his dual power attacks a lot, though...


LordAshton wrote:Both are truthful and neither are. It all comes down to what you, the player, decides.
Agreed. That's how the quest was intended. I think.
"As you will it, so it shall be." Sort of.
User avatar
House of the Wolf
Champion
Champion
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:39 am
ES Games: Morrowind (Xbox/PC), Oblivion (PS3/PC), Skyrim (PS3/Xbox 360)
Platform: Xbox, PS3, Xbox 360
Location: East Coast, US

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by House of the Wolf »

I was waiting to see what Bethy was going to do with any DLC before completing this one; alas, I side with Saadia--out of principle.
User avatar
Mattbott
The New Number Two
The New Number Two
Posts: 2325
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:33 pm
ES Games: Mw, Ob, Sk
Status: embellishing my headcanon
UESPoints: 1

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Mattbott »

Saadia because bounty hunters are not the law

shame you cant marry her really
User avatar
House of the Wolf
Champion
Champion
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:39 am
ES Games: Morrowind (Xbox/PC), Oblivion (PS3/PC), Skyrim (PS3/Xbox 360)
Platform: Xbox, PS3, Xbox 360
Location: East Coast, US

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by House of the Wolf »

If you side with Kematu, Saadia's name ends up in Whiterun's Hall of the Dead.
User avatar
Elune
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:21 pm
ES Games: Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind
Platform: PC
Status: A Light Shining in Darkness
UESPoints: 7

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Elune »

Saadia's name could end up there because she disappeared without warning and is presumed dead.

Regardless, I believe Kematu, why? Because he has no reason to lie. That may sound weird off-hand but think about, if he was the betrayer why is he hunting her and not being hunted himself? Why would the Thalmor send Redguards, who successfully rebelled against them, to hunt down someone who spoke out against them, in a distance province? If Saadia spoke out against the Thalmor she could have stayed in Hammerfall.

They can't both be lying, because both have relatively similar stories (with key differences being whose on what side), obviously without consulting each other.

As for the argument about her age: The game has no Age slider as in Oblivion, no race has different ages. The elders are a separate race, called Elder and it only supports Nords. Making any guess on her age, when Redguards can only be one age because of gameplay restrictions is silly.
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
User avatar
Br3admax
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 3904
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:32 pm
ES Games: I-V
Platform: PS3, PC
Location: The line between radiance and shadow

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Br3admax »

I don't know, the complexion slider can do wonders.

Anyway, a fifty year old women doesn't necessarily have to look really old.

As to what HotW said, that's not supposed to happen. It's a bug I think.

All in all, I never pick Saadia. The first thing she tries to do is pull a knife on you, only afterwards to go into a sob story about how she spoke out against the Thalmor, while none of the Redguards would even hunt her for this. They should have picked a much more believable story for her.
Justice knight wrote:Oh and listen to Br3ad he speaks wisdom.
User avatar
cybrxkhan
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 9:28 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PC

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by cybrxkhan »

With my current playthrough I just ignore them all.

I can just get my cool redguard clothes with mods anyways.
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
- Ambrose Bierce
User avatar
House of the Wolf
Champion
Champion
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:39 am
ES Games: Morrowind (Xbox/PC), Oblivion (PS3/PC), Skyrim (PS3/Xbox 360)
Platform: Xbox, PS3, Xbox 360
Location: East Coast, US

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by House of the Wolf »

If the Alik'r were telling the trutch, it would actually make much more sense for them to let Skyrim, or at least the Empire, know what she had done and, thus, why they were in Skyrim looking for her; they wouldn't co-mingle with a group of bandits in a cave far removed from any city/settlement, nor would they go sneaking around in Whiterun without at least trying to talk to its watch. What also diminishes their credibility is their harassment of random Redguard women along the roads--it'd be far more plausible that they'd know what she looks like, and not have that issue (the only reason they'd have that issue is if they were simply mercenaries, which would lend to the idea that they were, indeed, hired by the Thalmor [who, like all enigmatic organizations, use proxies to conduct their dirty-work]).

Saadia, on the other-hand, takes the more believable approach: she flees Hammerfell, where she doesn't know who she can trust (hired Alik'r can blend-in more easily [plus, it seems that she fled sometime during/just-after the war, which would lend to the fact that Hammerfell wouldn't be as safe a place, what with it being occupied, and all); she doesn't flee directly to the Empire because of an inherent distrust after the Thalmor get their foot into the door of the affairs of the Empire (a high-born seeking asylum from a then-occupied Hammerfell would get plenty of peoples' attention) and because of the Empire already having capitulated during the WGC; she flees to the safest place she can, for her, where the Thalmor are hated and she is geographically protected.

I don't believe it's a glitch that her name pops-up on an urn--I think it's symbolic/indicative.
CBR JGWRR
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 2925
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:04 am
ES Games: Skyrim, all DLC, Oblivion, GoTY and aniversary, arena
Platform: X360/PC, X360/PC, PC.
UESPoints: 2

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by CBR JGWRR »

cybrxkhan wrote:With my current playthrough I just ignore them all.

I can just get my cool redguard clothes with mods anyways.
Or just buy them from Radiant Raiment...
User avatar
Elune
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:21 pm
ES Games: Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind
Platform: PC
Status: A Light Shining in Darkness
UESPoints: 7

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Elune »

House of the Wolf wrote:If the Alik'r were telling the trutch, it would actually make much more sense for them to let Skyrim, or at least the Empire, know what she had done and, thus, why they were in Skyrim looking for her; they wouldn't co-mingle with a group of bandits in a cave far removed from any city/settlement, nor would they go sneaking around in Whiterun without at least trying to talk to its watch. What also diminishes their credibility is their harassment of random Redguard women along the roads--it'd be far more plausible that they'd know what she looks like, and not have that issue (the only reason they'd have that issue is if they were simply mercenaries, which would lend to the idea that they were, indeed, hired by the Thalmor [who, like all enigmatic organizations, use proxies to conduct their dirty-work]).

Saadia, on the other-hand, takes the more believable approach: she flees Hammerfell, where she doesn't know who she can trust (hired Alik'r can blend-in more easily [plus, it seems that she fled sometime during/just-after the war, which would lend to the fact that Hammerfell wouldn't be as safe a place, what with it being occupied, and all); she doesn't flee directly to the Empire because of an inherent distrust after the Thalmor get their foot into the door of the affairs of the Empire (a high-born seeking asylum from a then-occupied Hammerfell would get plenty of peoples' attention) and because of the Empire already having capitulated during the WGC; she flees to the safest place she can, for her, where the Thalmor are hated and she is geographically protected.

I don't believe it's a glitch that her name pops-up on an urn--I think it's symbolic/indicative.
Mercenaries aren't exactly known for being classy. But at the same time I can't imagine any band of Redguards working for the the Thalmor. They did try and talk to the watch, as for harassing women on the roads - the women do look similar, have you heard of anyone who was civil with perceived traitors? Again your average mercenary is a step above common bandits.

As for the Thalmor hiring mercenaries, why? Someone mentioned the group of Thalmor dispatched to kill you, I realize it's a random event and not related to this quest, but the fact they dispatch actual Thalmor warriors instead of hiring out local thugs or help should tell you something. The Thalmor are notoriously arrogant and wouldn't trust others to get the job done.
The Redguards eventually forced a stalemate with the Dominion, leading to Aldmeri forces withdrawing completely from Hammerfell.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hammerfell

So, why isn't someone who spoke out against the Thalmor in Hammerfell enjoying her hero status?
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
User avatar
Travalanche
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:56 am
ES Games: All the main ones besides Arena
Platform: PC
Location: Kansas

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Travalanche »

i usually roll with Saadia because if you hand her in they never really replace her at the inn, I saw Vignar grey mane stirring the pot of stew and it just seemed weird because he is the grey mane patriarch and above that.
Image
Taters
Champion
Champion
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:47 pm
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Elder Scrolls Online
Platform: PC, PS3
Status: I am crazy
Other Profiles: Steam: Behnjymyn, Origin: Behnjymyn
Location: Somewhere else entirely

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Taters »

What gets me is that Saadia claims the Alik'r could easily pay people off, and yet one Alik'r ends up in jail, and the others are forced to leave Whiterun and retreat to a cave. If they had such deep pockets, why not just pay to find her, or at least have the Whiterun guards look the other way? Add to that the fact that it's(to me) inconceivable that a woman who spoke out against the Thalmor would be hunted by her own people, who just won a war against them.
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius.
See an inappropriate post or topic? Click the report button. [ ! ]
godsmack
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:18 pm

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by godsmack »

I side with Saadia. The concept and principle is called “reasonable doubt”. I’m not siding with a mercenary to abduct a citizen of a city I’m Thane of. That’s called “kidnapping”. Nor am I siding with a group of hired thugs that can’t offer or produce the first shred of credible evidence or proof that they are who they say they are, or are acting in any official capacity. I’m just supposed to “take your word for it”? Sure, buddy, what ever you say. Not. To me that would be akin to sitting on a jury and convicting someone of a crime for which there is no solid evidence or proof of wrongdoing other than sketchy circumstantial evidence or hearsay. That’s not justice. I’m not going to chance turning over a potentially hapless or innocent woman, again, a citizen of a city I’m honor bound to defend and protect on a hunch or a whim without solid evidence that they’re actually guilty of some crime to some foreign mercenary cutthroats that may or may not be who they claim.
"Don't join the book burners. Don't think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed."
Dwight D. Eisenhower, speech at Dartmouth College (14 June 1953)

If you cannot speak, you are not free.
User avatar
Yaije
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:17 pm

Re: Saadia or Kematu

Post by Yaije »

I don't think Saadia is even a citizen of whiterun... she just showed up and got a job at the Inn.

edit: Is it revealed that Saadia isn't even her real name?
Locked