Do videogames make you want to steal cars? (games/violence)

[Jeff]

Part of peoples concerns about the Violence in Video Games, is how Realistic they are becoming. Add to that, the fact that in games like GTA you are randomly commiting Violence against Normal Everyday (somewhat) Innocent People.

Nobody ever had a problem when everyone was killing Zombies & Other Monster like Creatures. Even in the War Themed games, where you were killing the <insert military bad guys of that decade here> Bad Guys. Not to mention the Fantasy games, where you are only using swords & magic, killing Orcs & Mintaurs.

Car Heisting, or Bump & Gun, is very real. Although it is mainly Gang Related, it isn't that far of a strech to connect that to the Game, even though it is not actually close. It is almost as bad as the "Columbine Massacre" Themed Online Game that was out.

[Relax and Play]

Not at all.

Only those who believe everything they hear would assume games to be that affecting.

[ArotosMarkos]

As a gamer not very into such modernistic games, I have the urge to assault brown, anthropomorphic fungi by means of leaping onto their heads.

It is mostly a product of bad parenting, as many have said...Many let young (and very influencable) children play such video games as the GTA series, and fathers and brothers often praise and reward them for such acheivements as 'beating your first prostitute with a lead pipe.'

I find it sick introducing children to games at such a age, and I believe it turns many of them the wrong way.

[Alien]

I agree with both of you. weapons when handled responsibly are no more dangerous than a kitchen knife.

Larry the cable guy is just so gosh darn funny....


And besides if you would want to get rid of weapons then you would also have to get rid of just about everything. anything any where can be turned into a weapon. A simple stick on the ground or a pencil all possible weapons. Heck even a wall can be used as a weapon!

You would also have to put people away as people who are martial artists can be considered weapons.

I dont want to go to jail! Martial arts are art! NOT CRIME!

people kill people. weapons are just another tool that we use.

A credit card can pop a man's eye out if you take the corner of it and jam it right into the lower-right corner of the corne-... I'll stop right there.

[Dark Lord Cam]

Thanks to joker I now know how to make a pencil disappear!!!!

[Jeff]

Only those who believe everything they hear would assume games to be that affecting.

Which, Unfortunately, is a large part of the Population.

There is no Truth, there is only peoples preception of what they want to hear.

People want to hear that it is the Video Games that make their kids bad, not their poor parenting skills.

[Dogmantra]

I find it sick introducing children to games at such a age, and I believe it turns many of them the wrong way.

Except stuff like Mario? Because I fail to see how a mustachioed man wearing Dungarees and jumping on stuff can make you into a vile murderer.

What Jeff said, about what people want to believe... that's so true. People in general don't like taking the blame, so they'll blame whatever either seems like it could be a cause, or a lesser cause that only contributed a little.

[r]

Generally no, but I'm pretty sure this guy is going to kill someone at some point in his life.

[Guy No. 2]

Nope games do not make me want to go out and kill people, rob cars, "assault prostitutes with cro-bars" as someone said earlier or jump on anthromorphic green and red funghi . Though I will say this that if I am on my own and I am continuously losing to the console in say, a fighting match, you wouldnt want to be near me I can get a pretty bad temper but that is just me .

Oh and how about this, youve probly seen it before but meh Id just thought Id post it here. First time I saw it I thought it was real!! It was genuinely scary for me until I learned it was all a political protest/objection thingy about how politicians are always talking about how games make people want to kill people n stuff.
Angry German Kid

[Dark Lord Cam]

I thought that was funny.

[The King]

Generally no, but I'm pretty sure this guy is going to kill someone at some point in his life.

That guy is messed up, he made me laugh so hard, for 10 mins straight, you(r) made me laugh too. That guy is going ot end up a mass murderer.He kills everyone and then strips them nude, how messed up.

[leroybrown]

Generally no, but I'm pretty sure this guy is going to kill someone at some point in his life.

Wow, you arnt kidding. The worst part is whats the point of being king of the world if nobodys around?

[The Most Unholy]

Yeah, who wants to rule over bloody, naked corpses?

[The Dog Whisperer]

Clearly that guy would.

A while ago I found this.

Somewhere in there, the writer quotes the book of Drs. Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl K. Olson...

It’s clear that the “big fears” bandied about in the press—that violent video games make children significantly more violent in the real world; that they will engage in the illegal, immoral, sexist and violent acts they see in some of these games—are not supported by the current research, at least in such a simplistic form.

[Guy No. 2]

That guy is messed up, he made me laugh so hard, for 10 mins straight, you(r) made me laugh too. That guy is going ot end up a mass murderer.He kills everyone and then strips them nude, how messed up.

Well as Bear said in that very thread, a great majority of Ob players probly do that anyway. Maybe not the killing everyone part but defo the people you have to kill. Im also not defending him either as personally I thought it was disgusting and I have a strong feeling it was just a troll. Troll in the sense that a user posts stuff like that just to shock people and freak em out.

[Fiar]

I have never had any violent inclinations or the urge to steal, kill, harm, or anything else after playing any video games. And I do doubt that games are as bad for people as they want you to think.


And that guy r linked us too......Yeah, he may need some help.....And fast.

[Lunarsweets]

Nor have I...unless...you call holding a stick like a dagger and assassinating invisible foes violent...which in my case is perfectly normal.

[Stan RedGuard]

The answer to the topic is not just no, but hell no. As for othe rpeople- 60% of the problem is bad parenting, 30% is just a [&@%!] up kid, 10% is whatever fits the Defense during the trial. Quite frankly, if someone commits a crime and say they are influenced from a game, then the only people to blame are the parents. In my view, they are just as much to blame as the kid for the crime. They raised him/her, they are supposed to teach him how to behave. No sane, well or even marginally decently raised kid will even think about possibly commiting a crime because of a game. If someone commits a crime because of games, then they're crazy and have crappy parents. The fault lies directly on the shoulders of the idiots who raised the kid. The mother should have her tubes tied and the father should be neutered and any other kids in the home should be taken away. Crazy thing is, I'm not joking. I mean that.

And while we're on the subject, this came up in debate class a few years ago. I basically shut them down by pointing out that not a single study that is in anyway unbiased has linked kid violence and games. Music has had a bigger impact, so have the movies, television as well. The relationship between violence and games is as weak as it was in the 50s between comics and violence. It just doesn't hold up under any serious investigation.

ArotosMarkos: To the best of my knowledge, you can't use a lead pipe in any GTA game.

[The Tourist]

[apologies for the length, but a saved version, a few IE7 crashes later, and this thread was on 5 pages... so wordiness ensued]

I've just listened to most of a radio show, where a British MP banged on about the harmful effects of videogames,

Is this the first one you've ever heard? Because my local radio station gets them bi-weekly.

No, it was just a politician, and a man, who I generally respect (George Galloway). I don't agree with that much he has to say, but I admire his use of old skool rhetoric and intelligence. However, he just sounded like - as others have referred - like someone who didn't know enough about the subject, but who was commenting anyway.

As for younger gamers, I shouldn't even need to say this, look at the age rating.

But that's the thing, you should, and the fact that you need to do so is testament to the failure of the entire ratings system.

Mainstream Perception of Videogames
Games were once for kids, but the gamers who grew up with Manic Miner, Sonic, and even first-gen Lara, are a lot older now. They're adults, and the industry has grown up with them (though by looking at Soul Calibur IV, that's very hard to see).

Whilst the games industry can gross more per annum than films, and games are finally taking their place alongside other mass media entertainment (cinema, music et al), the old perception of 'games are for kids' has persisted - that's the governments position [of ignorance], and that's also the position of many parents, who really don't see the potentiality of truly adult content in Little Jonnie's plaything.

"Rated M! For MATURE!"
M ratings and 18 classifications have utterly failed, because of the above dynamic. I understand in the slighlty more puritanical States, that an M - or especially an AO rating - can severely impact on a games sales and who wants to be seen to distribute it (the same goes for film ratings in the States, with studios desperately trying to avoid a classification that might diminish their profit).

There was a report recently conducted in the UK - the Byron report, I believe - which looked into ratings in games, and in the potential effects of violence on children. I 'participated' in this by answering the call for emails from gamers putting forth their experience and opinion.

Well, included in her findings was the conclusion that the ratings system needs to be extended... that's ALL they came up with?! Every gamer - and a few of you have already mentioned this - has an account of being in a games store and seeing a sale of an 18/M rated game to a parent of a minor. So we've known 'the ratings don't work' for years.

The ratings aren't the problem. It's the content.

Censorship - Reality & Fiction
I actually voted "Possibly/more restrictions needed". I don't WANT to believe games can negatively affect people, and I don't WANT to see games sanctioned and censored.

Just as most of you did, I grew up with a fairly cogent understanding of what's right and wrong. I didn't have the best of parents, but I at least was given - through my parents, my friends, and my environment (my town/school etc) - the 'proper grounding' of a fairly decent member of the community. Right and wrong, reality and fiction, were clearly delineated; they were, and always have been.

For most of us here, that's the case. So for us, pressing the B button on a 360 controller to drive a chainsaw blade into an aliens face on Gears of War (and have the badguys body evisorated before our very eyes, with blood and gore spraying the screen... ) isn't going to affect us. We know it's just a game, we know killing's 'bad', because we can differentiate between what's on screen, what's in our minds, and what's actually around us in the 'real' world.

We can pause the game, put the pad down, talk to whoever else might be in the room about some mundane detail ("Is John coming in the can today? Then they can bring up..." etc), have a sip of tea, then re-enter the world where we control a 'bad ass' ex-prisoner Marine, spraying badguys all over our widescreen Hi-def tvs. We can play for 5 minutes, an hour, or three (with breaks of course). We might play the game alone - but connected to 'extended social networks' like Xbox Live - or with friends.

However, for those people with a less fortunate upbringing (and I don't just mean a poor economic situation with psycho parents), who through various means simply can't differentiate between reality and repeatedly viewed violent imagery, the process of assimilating that which they are virtual experiencing is different, and far less healthy. Isolated from a 'moral compass', and subjected to extended periods of negative external influence, the outcome can be alltogether worse.

Control of Access to Violent Games
But as the control of access to such games isn't working - and the myth that 'games are for kids' persists by those in power, and those in positions of responsibility (parents and government) - perhaps closer regulation is needed. But if so, it's not just developers we need to be looking at.

Mini-Non Conclusion
A few years ago, I would've been right there with those who believed violent games had no effect, and I still don't really want to believe it. But the truth is, as usual, neither on the side of those who say "Ban this filth now!", nor is it for those who claim "It's just a game".

Ratings system, game content, mass perception of games, and all the things that cobble together to shape our societies - it's all linked, and it makes the debate pretty darn complicated.

I think all parties involved - who are in a position of influence (developers, parents, government etc) need to acknowledge the complexity of the topic; because I don't really see any of them doing so. Not George Galloway MP/talkshow host, not Rockstar, not the parents and especially not those 'in power'.

So my conclusion is that there isn't a conclusion, regarding how much games affect us, and what can be done if they do... but we're at a pivotal moment with regards to games acceptance in the mainstream, so we're all going to have to resolve a few of these issues sooner or later.

[xenolion]

Do you guys want a parental viewpoint on this question.

First a confession, I am a 33 year old female who loves her RPG's. I've been playing VG's since Commodore 64. I also went through Hunter's Safety course when I was 12, and personally own 3 guns (well actually they were gifts from my grandpas). Guess what? I have no criminal record either adult or juvenile.

People have to be responsible for their actions whether they base them on what they saw in video games or in other media. ANYONE who tries to do ANY violent action they see in a game or movies deserve the harm that comes to them.

My daughter is 7 and loves to watch me clean out an occasional dungeon in Oblivion. She also grabs her dolls, changing them for who I have in my party, and "fights" with them when I play Xenosaga 2. She also plays with my Voltron lions, and is getting into Pokemon. So I guess the world better watch out because there is a future murderer in the making =P

In most cases yes it is the parent's fault. However there is a time when the kid is old enough to know he or she is doing is wrong. Yes I am looking at the older teens. The ones that want independence yet when they get it, they do stupid stuff.

I chose the "more restrictions needed", but not only for the games. People who sell the games need to crack down on who they sell them too. People who give the game should know the maturity level of the recipients. People who play the games have to play with a little bit of - common sense - .

[The Dog Whisperer]

I think all parties involved - who are in a position of influence (developers, parents, government etc) need to acknowledge the complexity of the topic; because I don't really see any of them doing so. Not George Galloway MP/talkshow host, not Rockstar, not the parents and especially not those 'in power'.

Personally, I think the reason Rockstar are not acknowledging this is because they know, that if they do, they will in some way have to tune their games down a bit. And by this point I think that one of Rockstar's main forms of advertising is plain infamy, their game is coming out and the outrage at "It's a GTA game and is turning younger gamers evil,", this causes a massive stir, even news stories on TV, RTÉ seems to do 1 or 2 stories on each one that comes out. Which is why, I think, they are not having an influence on the censorship of games.

While the rating system on games may not work at the moment, it can. If parents are informed well enough they can have a good idea of what's up-and-coming in thee gaming world, and can then bring up an argument, a reason (not that they should need one), against "But Mom/Dad, all my friends have this one," or "It's not really that bad,".
On the matter of the ratings system, it basically comes down to the parent's willpower, and, like so many people said, if their willpower fails, they can't complain, like you said:

Games were once for kids, but the gamers who grew up with Manic Miner, Sonic, and even first-gen Lara, are a lot older now. They're adults, and the industry has grown up with them (though by looking at Soul Calibur IV, that's very hard to see).

The industry has grown up, and when things grow up they tend to get more realistic...

People who sell the games need to crack down on who they sell them too.

They normally do, my local Xtravision has never sold me, or any of my friends, a game with a rating above our age.
The only time I think this becomes a problem is the 15-17 years old area, I've seen 15 year olds sold 18+ games because they look more mature, when really the store should probably be asking for ID, but as Tourist said, people are not looking at the complexity of the problem and so do not think it that much o a deal. If a 17 year old were to be sold the game I doubt it would matter too much, by then I guess their mentality for life is settled, unless it gets messed up by some major event...

However, for those people with a less fortunate upbringing (and I don't just mean a poor economic situation with psycho parents), who through various means simply can't differentiate between reality and repeatedly viewed violent imagery, the process of assimilating that which they are virtual experiencing is different, and far less healthy. Isolated from a 'moral compass', and subjected to extended periods of negative external influence, the outcome can be alltogether worse.

Which is why I stated that these people should be watched (I think I said that, not sure... either way, I am now ).
It should be clear which people are and are not affected by games, and I mean easy to spot before something bad happens, if little kids tend to get extremely wrapped up in games then parent's should intervene, or try and teach their kids what you said is "wrong and right". This would stop a lot of problems before they even start, and can be done, like I said before, by getting parents informed.
As for parent's that don't properly watch their kids or just don't find it to be a problem, "Oh, he's only pretending,", there must be someone close to the child who realises that something is wrong, and when the parent is confronted maybe they will realise what is going on.

But it basically comes down to, as Tourist said, making the "powers" in the matter understand, but most important of these, I think, are the parents. They are in direct contact with the kid everyday and can easily stop the problems that supposedly come with violent games, not that I think games contribute a lot to the fact.
I already pointed out in my last post about the two doctor's research and their findings. But to save you going alllll the way up there...

It’s clear that the “big fears” bandied about in the press—that violent video games make children significantly more violent in the real world; that they will engage in the illegal, immoral, sexist and violent acts they see in some of these games—are not supported by the current research, at least in such a simplistic form.

[The Most Unholy]

I agree with you Whisperer, it is all the parents, if the parents ignore, or blow off the problem are obviously not fit to parent that child effectively, because they do not see the problem. Most of these problems can be avoided if the parents simply only give their kids games they are mature enough to play, and make sure that they are not playing them constantly. Someone in another thread, this one in particular, said something about a "Hyper-realistic game called outside" which is what kids also need so the only thing they see isn't people being run over with cars, and police choppers being shot down in the middle of the street, and so on.

(On a completely different note, is that a slightly different SAS insignia in your gamertag tourist? or something completely different?)

[The Dog Whisperer]

On that completely different note.
It looks a lot like one, but when I checked on MGC it was a Rainbow Six Gamer Picture....

[Dark Spark]

Every little kid should grow up with a sandbox, a few empty cereal boxes, scattered pieces of a chess set, and some dolls. Nothing brand-name, nothing trendy. The simple stuff that doesn't come with a packaged backstory or scripted universe that the child must parrot back in order to play "properly".

Video games, even the kid-themed ones, are yet another pre-packaged playset that limits the growing child's imagination to the developer's rules. Read 'em a book instead. Learn some of their stories and tell them aloud. Giving the kids the building blocks (figuratively as well as literally) that forces them to develop their own imagination: their own stories and characters. They'll have plenty of time to absorb glitz and spectacle later on in life. Give 'em a leg up by loosing the colorful crutch.

As to violence in society and weapons: to surest way you can force many civilians to appreciate the sanctity of life is by showing them the tangible means of ending it— to learn what power does. And what it costs. You can't respect something if you are forced to remain ignorant of it.

Guns, swords, batons— it's all good. What I want see kept out of civilian hands are siege trebuchets. You can put someone's eye out with one of those things.

[Dark Lord Cam]

Yeah, who wants to rule over bloody, naked corpses?

Was that aimed at me?