Fellow Orcs: Empire or Stormcloaks

[noobishlord]

Long time no see, UESP Forum!

So, with the fact that 1.9 just came out, and I finally got around to buying Dragonborn, I decided it was time to start a new character. Decided to make a good ol' fashioned "sword-and-board" Warrior Orc, and while I was waiting for the opening sequence to finish itself, I pondered on what side I'd end up joining.

So far, I'm leaning towards the Empire, since it was with the Empire that the Orcs finally earned some respect and a place in Tamriel. However, I'm curious to see what the rest of you Orc players decided upon.

[KryptonianBlood]

Well helping the stormcloaks would simply hurt the situation for them in skyrim and with ulfric in charge they would inevitably be pushed out of skyrim eventually. I think that if an orc joined either side it would simply be for the joy of combat, and thus join the empire as opposed to the people that hate them. gameplay-wise their near identical.
Here is another idea: What if your orc decides not to join either side and decides this is the perect time to take out both and claim for the orcs a real homeland? He could destroy the camps and forts on both sides so that when both are weak enough his fellow brothers can take over skyim?

[Eltee]

Orcs have traditionally joined the Legion throughout the centuries as a show of honour and strength. See, Fort Darius, for example, or the Orcish smithy in Markarth. Ulfric's racial ideology is likewise hardly tempting for Orcs.

[Br3admax]

Stormcloak guards seem to have no problem with Orcs. And it can be blamed on generic guard dialogue, except apparently female guards don't belong into the empire. The specifically coded for Stormcloaks to say Orcs are fine.

[KryptonianBlood]

Stormcloak guards seem to have no problem with Orcs. And it can be blamed on generic guard dialogue, except apparently female guards don't belong into the empire. The specifically coded for Stormcloaks to say Orcs are fine.

Their fine because there are certainly more orcs than other non-nord races in skyrim. Not to mention their strength. They are only find because they would be VERY advantageous in a fight against the much larger empire. Once the stormcloaks won, and they got rid of the other citizens and re-built up their army and longer had need of the orcs, im sure their tune would change.

As in real life, in times of piece, when the citizens grow restless, a scapegoat boogeyman does wonders for bringing the people together again. As soon as there was a famine or a conspiracy or anything else that threatened the new stormcloak authority, they would focus their peoples attention away from the real problem and onto a scapegoat, and what better scapegoat for a people as racist as the nords than the subhuman orcs, always raping their women and stealing their jobs?

[CBR JGWRR]

But they do have a problem with the orc Stronghold Narzulbur...


The average generic orc would be more inclined to side with the empire, depending on how they took the opening scene of game.

[Street_Assassin]

My Orc joined stormcloaks cuz I felt his good old fashioned warrior style would fit in. Stormcloaks are all Nords tho but they don't like magic or elves and Orc are not favorable to use magic but they r elves (orsiMER) but I still joined them. Plus I haven't seen Nords disliking Orcs in the game (like they don't like imperials,argonians,Dunmer or Khajit) so I didn't feel uncomfortable being with them.

[Evil-i]

I always play my characters with the point of view that I'm not "racially" bound by what the rest of my herd has done. Individualism trumps herd mentality every time.

[Mr.Argonian]

I would think Orcs would join the Empire, but an argument could be formed to join the Stormcloaks, seeing as the Bretons, part of the Empire, recently attacked and destroyed the Orcish home city of Orsinium, which could leave many feeling bitter and resentful towards the Empire for not controlling the Bretons.

[Hawthorn]

I think Orcs would be more apt to side with the Empire. Traditionally Orcs have a strong presence in the Legion, and I can see any Orc being a bit nervous about Ulfric's general "Skyrim for the Nords" attitude. I don't know about the more assimilated Orcs, but there does seem to be some hostility from guards towards Orcs living in strongholds and their lifestyle. Maybe the Stormcloaks would eventually decide they didn't like these 'barbarians' living in their midst and encourage them to move on.

But saying that I think you could also justify an Orc joining with the Stormcloaks. He or she might well think that the Empire is a lame duck whose time has passed, like the old Orc you meet on the road. The Empire is old and crippled by war. Ulfric by comparison is a strong, dynamic leader who is worthy of respect. An Orc more than any other race would understand the need for a strong chief, especially in times of crisis. They might think that the Stormcloak attitude towards other races is just that, an attitude, since in spite of the bluster they don't show any signs of driving other races out of Skyrim. The Nords are warriors and the Orcs are warriors so they share a common ground. Really I think it just depends on the viewpoint your Orc takes.

(And yeah, why are there no women in the Legion? Apart from Rikke and that Redguard captain who tries to take your head off they are strangely absent.)

[Pilaf The Defiler]

From the paperback novel Lord of Souls:

Mazgar’s mother was killed at the sack of Orsinium, when Mazgar was only seven. Her mother is reported to have killed thirty men before expiring. The Seventh and Fifteenth Imperial legions prevented the utter destruction of Orsinium at the hands of the Bretons and Redguards, leading the survivors to Skyrim. Mazgar remembers the trek as “terror, the chaos, the walk that went on for weeks through bitter cold—and never having enough to eat.”

^ Keep that in mind. The march was terrible, but it was the Legions who came to Orsinium's aid and saved the lives of its people. Not the Nords.

[DikaSmausha]

I would say Empire because the Legion used to rely on Orc smiths.

[Isabel of Alinor]

lore wise orcs are siding with the empire

[Travalanche]

If I were an orc living in skyrim that was captured while crossing the border and sentenced to beheading but managed to escape I would do everything in my power to end them, cutting somebody's head off is a pretty bad insult and Tullius was there and could have stopped it if he wanted to but he didn't care.

If I were say... an orc living in a stronghold that wasn't going to get my head cut off I'd probably join the Empire but it would take some thought.

[Kavatch99]

Orcs generally believe in dying in a fair fight, Malacath does not like an Orc that just sits there waiting to die. I'm not sure if your nearly getting your head cut off by the Imperials would count as sitting there, but it definitely isn't fighting to your last breath.

My Orc would probably side with the Stormcloaks after that, just to flip the birdie at the Empire. Respect for his people? Ha! The Empire doesn't respect his people, so why would he expect Ulfric to do anything different? He would join the Stormcloaks only for the sheer pleasure of battle, and, again, flip off the Empire.

Now, other Orcs may want to stay out of it, thinking it's a fight between Nords, and Orcs should not get involved in their mess. Others might fight for the Empire, solely because they're just that forgiving.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

^ The Empire respected his people enough to literally save their lives when the hate-filled Breton and Redguard knightly orders were ravaging their country. This is history, not opinion.

[OblivionDuruza]

I would say that the evidence points towards the Empire, based on the 'current' political climate and the history of the Orcish people.

At present, we've heard nothing I'm aware of to indicate rumbling within High Rock or Orsinium that might suggest the Orcs intend to leave the remains of the Empire. We also know that the Stormcloaks are entirely pro-Nord, and we've seen issues arise with their interactions with other races, particularly non-human ones, in the past (see: Dunmer and Argonians). Finally, The Orcs have tended to be a fairly loyal and honour-bound peoples, at least in my reading of things, and it seems to me that they would be highly inclined to honour their relationship witht he Empire, although that being said, it must be remembered that the Empire of Mede is not the Septim Empire.

[Br3admax]

Orcs generally believe in dying in a fair fight, Malacath does not like an Orc that just sits there waiting to die. I'm not sure if your nearly getting your head cut off by the Imperials would count as sitting there, but it definitely isn't fighting to your last breath.

Malacath would see you as weak for getting caught in the first place.

My Orc would probably side with the Stormcloaks after that, just to flip the birdie at the Empire. Respect for his people? Ha! The Empire doesn't respect his people, so why would he expect Ulfric to do anything different? He would join the Stormcloaks only for the sheer pleasure of battle, and, again, flip off the Empire.

The Empire saves your lot time and time again. You must be thinking of High Rock and Hammerfell.

Now, other Orcs may want to stay out of it, thinking it's a fight between Nords, and Orcs should not get involved in their mess. Others might fight for the Empire, solely because they're just that forgiving.

Or because the Empire actually helps Orsinium. That might be it too. Stormcloaks may tolerated Orcs, but I know that the Empire will probably appreciate an Orc the most. The Legion has been good to them.

[Linkuya]

My orc was a stormcloak, after all, a violent orc for a violent side.

[jerulsan]

Currently playing an Orc . . . and loving it. He hasn't taken a side yet, though he left Helgen with Hadvar and will probably eventually join the Legion. First and foremost, though, he sees himself as a soldier-of-fortune, so for now his main allegiance is to the Companions.

[Tdroid]

I'm surprised that people talk about the Stormcloaks like they plan to drive all non-Nords from Skyrim. Where is the evidence for that? A few racist Nord NPCs? Guess what? All races have racist members. And Ulfric's harshest criticism on the race thing is that he puts Nords before other races, which is hardly the equivalent of driving other races from Skyrim. He doesn't seem to be more racist than most people in Tamriel, which comes down to a racial bias.

As far as I can tell, and by that I mean that all the sources I know about, the Stormcloaks are about freeing Skyrim from the Empire and rebuilding it to be a strong independent nation, then taking the fight to the Thalmor. Not perfect, but it is not some racial purity movement like some seem to believe. Galmar Stone-Fist, Ulfric's righthand man, even says they don't care about race if you ask him if they only take Nords(you need to be a non-Nord to do this) when you join up. And if you say that Skyrim is your home, he accepts that.

As for Orcs, in general I think they are more likely to join the Empire. They have a history of service in the Legion, ever since they were accepted as a people after Daggerfall. Not seeing any reason for one not to join the Stormcloaks though, they seem to be indifferent to who rules Skyrim.

[OblivionDuruza]

The old Holds have always espoused a "Skyrim for the Nords" mentality, and shunned outsiders. That view has its merits, but it doesn't do all that much for non-Nords. Ulfric's Stormcloak Doctrine totally reflects that view, and the Sotrmcloacks haven't exactly shown that their anything but pro-Nord protectionists.

[DikaSmausha]

Well, they let people join, no matter the race, as long as they believe that this is their home, and they should be able to control it, and who they worship.

[OblivionDuruza]

The Dovakiin is a special exception, and is the only one. There is a pretty valid theory going round which suggests that the Stormcloaks view the Dovakiin as an honorary Nord due to the Nordic soul within him/her, and that this is the reason they allow him to join. Regardless, if an Orcish Dovakiin were to care about other Orcs, they probably would consider not just their own acceptance into the Stormcloak Rebellion, but the effects said rebellion would have on their fellow Orcs.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Exactly. Under Torygg the Orcs were tolerated to a high degree. The evidence of that is that their communities are unmolested by Nord armies and they're allowed to freely worship Malacath and live in the traditional ways of their ancestors. They even often trade with the Nords and serve in the Imperial Legion. They're accepted members of society with the same rights and privileges as other races. Stormcloaks aren't necessarily racist, but you don't see Orcs joining them in droves. The Orcs in the strongholds speak highly of the Legion but never say anything much about the war or Ulfric's boys. That leads me to believe if an Orc did take up arms it'd be for the Empire, as usual.