Stormcloaks (Club/Faction)

[Hrolf Alfblod]

As I play on the 360, I'm unable to help with the suggested project, but I'll contribute an idea for the mod. Would it be possible to build that Temple of Talos, for Heimskr, that Vignar hints about, in Whiterun?

[GoatLiver]

Hey welcome Witchery, good to see more comrades showing there colours!

Sorry I have been a bit busy lately so it took me a couple days to check the thread, I've updated the opening page to include you
I've put you in under bone-breaker, feel free to request a different rank if there is one you would prefer

As I play on the 360, I'm unable to help with the suggested project, but I'll contribute an idea for the mod. Would it be possible to build that Temple of Talos, for Heimskr, that Vignar hints about, in Whiterun?

That is a pretty reasonable suggestion, in terms of work it shouldn't be much harder than a house mod. Changing heimskr's daily routine to go into the temple and deliver his sermons there could have a bit more of a risk involved with stuffing something up. My main issue with this would be the location, where would you think is an appropriate place to build the temple? There isn't that much vacant space inside Whiterun city perhaps outside the walls but still in Whiterun hold would be a decent idea?

This would be even more viable with the Hearth-Fire DLC as all the new buildings it adds use similar architecture to Whiterun so there is more content to work with while maintaining the original feel of the game. Well anyway solid suggestion any input for a location would be good

Or if anyone has another idea feel free to discuss

[Hrolf Alfblod]

For a small temple, build it where Heimskr's destroyed house is. A little bigger spot would be where Severio Pelagia's destroyed house is. Better yet, the House of Clan Battle-Born would be a perfect location. Then it would be on the same row as the Temple of Kynareth and the Hall of the dead. They have a farm where they can live. Besides, they're traitorous milk-drinkers anyway. I'm sure those suggestions would take too much work, especially the last one, though.

[GoatLiver]

For a small temple, build it where Heimskr's destroyed house is. A little bigger spot would be where Severio Pelagia's destroyed house is. Better yet, the House of Clan Battle-Born would be a perfect location. Then it would be on the same row as the Temple of Kynareth and the Hall of the dead. They have a farm where they can live. Besides, they're traitorous milk-drinkers anyway. I'm sure those suggestions would take too much work, especially the last one, though.

HAHAHA building it where clan battle-borns house stands is a genius idea! Unfortunately that could conflict with anything that uses that house, eg the quest to help find the missing Gray-Mane son would become un-completable. Building it where Heimskr's house was would probably be the better option. It could still be a reasonable size but a portion of it would have to be build into/under the mountainside in a manner similar to the Hall of the Dead.

When you say building it do you mean making it so it can be crafted in a similar manner to the hearth-fire homes or it would just appear as soon as you install the mod? I don't know how much extra work it would be to make it like hearth-fire but looking through those files should provide a reasonable guide as to how to do it

[Mefris Elmek]

[...]Better yet, the House of Clan Battle-Born would be a perfect location[...]

Yes,it most certainly would ( ) not to mention that it creats a good context for some quests that would offer a lot of Stormcloak flavour to Whiterun.Here's a few ideas for a questline...

Hidden:

Requirements for the quest to be activated:Missing in Action has been completed,The Civil War concluded on the SC side and both Hemskir and Olfrid Battle-Born must be alive.
Quest Trigger=Letter from a courier:A letter from Jarl Vignar informs you that your ("thanely") presence is required in Whiterun for a task that must be completed urgently.
First stage:Upon talking to Vignar you find out that Clan Battle-Born isn't to happy about the change in power,taking every opportunity to "throw sticks at the cart's wheels" to force an uprising.To deal with this nuisance Ulfric has decided to neutralise them in a way that makes a statement both in Skyrim and abroad.Your task is to seize their belongings,escort them out of the city and help Hemskir with anything he needs to build a temple devoted to Talos.If they resist (which Vignar hopes will be the case) you are ordered to kill or inprison them.
Second Stage:After the little chat with Vignar is over his steward,Brill,points you in the direction of Sinmir.You are told that he will offer additional help with the quest and a rundown of what the Battle-Borns have been up to lately.
When speaking to Sinmir he greets you with respect and tells you that he has been ordered to put six Whiterun guards at the your disposal.He also offers to tell you about the clan's unpatriotic actions (which range from inciting people to rebel to poisoning the guards food rations).After the rundown he adds that he can't wait to get his hands on Olfrid-Battle-Born and he will be very pleased to see him rotting in jail.
Third Stage=Get the job done:At this point you have three (main) options...
A)Try to convince the Battle-Borns to leave and surrender their belongings quietly.You can do this in two ways:
~You can go straight for the head and convince Olfrid to leave (high speech skill required).
or...
~You can try to convince the other members of the clan(lower speech skill required but you have to get every clan member onboard for this to work).
B)Kill Olfrid and escort the rest of the family out of the city(you will have to kill Indolf as well as he will come to aid his father).
C)Arrest Olfrid and Indolf Battle-Born then escort the rest of the family out of the city.

Note:You will need help from the guards before you can engage any of the three options mentioned above.You can summon the guards under your command by picking the "assemble" topic while talking to a guard.This will spawn six of them in front of the Battle-Born residence and you'll be able to enter the house.Depending on your choice they will help you by escorting the family out of Whiterun/to jail,"cleaning" the house,providing backup if you want to kill Olfrid etc.
Fourth stage:50% of your task is now done.Talk to Vignar to finish the quest and get your next assignment (maybe a reward as well?).

Well,this is a (very) rough idea of what's dancing around in my head.The questline would end with the inauguration of the Temple and I've got everything mapped out till that point (quests,dialog,memorial plaque...the whole nine yards ).

Edit:Updated questline.

[Hrolf Alfblod]

Love it! I think that it should require that Missing in Action be completed as well.

[GoatLiver]

Love the idea and makes much more sense to have a quest kicking out any surviving Battle-Born before donating their house to Talos! Adding a quest line to it would be quite a bit of extra work though, might be best just to work on the temple itself first. Main thing here is, having a guess, I would say that most Stormcloak fans would have dispatched of caln Battle-Born well before the end of the war!

Even people that don't like the Stormcloaks generally still don't like the Battle-Born's. Every time I make a character that joins the companions I make a B-line for the nearest Battle-Born during my initiation to the circle

[Archer]

I never kill any of them. For me, it is far better to leave them in disgrace after their side has lost.

[Mefris Elmek]

Love it! I think that it should require that Missing in Action be completed as well.

Damn it...I knew I forgot something. Fixed it and in the process I updated the questline as well.I apologise for the the lack of detail in my updated but I'm pretty tired right now and writing long posts with the ps3 controller is a pain in the *beep*.

Love the idea and makes much more sense to have a quest kicking out any surviving Battle-Born before donating their house to Talos! Adding a quest line to it would be quite a bit of extra work though, might be best just to work on the temple itself first. Main thing here is, having a guess, I would say that most Stormcloak fans would have dispatched of caln Battle-Born well before the end of the war!

I agree,the Temple alone is hard enough already.We should take it one step at a time and see where we go from there.Peronally ,I would suggest a building site outside of Whiterun because it would be much easier to mod into the game.Still,as soon as Hrolf mentioned the House of Clan Battle-Born my mind started painting the grandeur of making a statement in stone.A statement powerful enough to slap the Imperials,the Thalmor and rally the people of Skyrim for one more War.I'd love it if we could pull this of in Whiterun but if technical issues get in the way then we should settle with what we CAN do.

In regards to Clan Battle-Born,I'm in the same boat as Archer.The best punishment they can get is to live.Anyway,the questline can be made to bypass that particular quest if the Clan is no more so the players will at least be able to help with the construction of the temple.

Even people that don't like the Stormcloaks generally still don't like the Battle-Born's. Every time I make a character that joins the companions I make a B-line for the nearest Battle-Born during my initiation to the circle

This reminds me of a question I wanted to ask:Am I the only that sees the "main" imperial characters as being a bunch of a-holes?(and I'm asking this from an objective perspective without any links to my faction choice)I mean:

~Maven and her family=The embodiment of evil.Killing,blackmaill and stealing (even from eachother) is common practice.
~Jarl Siddgeir=The spoiled brat.He doesn't give a F about anything and anyone but himself and he'll most likely run the Hold into the ground.
~Jarl Igmund=The murderer.He killed innocent people and made Ulfric into the perfect scapegoat.
etc,etc.

[swordsister]

Actually, i fail to understand the logic behind siding with the Empire. You'd think that people would have some common sense. I'm not pointing fingers here, but it is clear that Beth has charicatured most Cyrodilic people as your typical ignorant Roman lot.

[GoatLiver]

Mefris Elmek, I read the revised quest line you offered. One thing to keep in mind when dealing with spoken dialogue is that any character already in the game will have very limited generic lines they an say, but and unique dialogue will need to be created ourselves for the quest. Problem here is that we do not have access to the voice actor that voices Vignar and his steward or any of the Battle-Borns so adding new dialouge with a different voice to them will sound very strange.

I would suggest re-thinking the structure of any quest we make to have all unique dialogue parts from completely new NPC's that we would add. For example to build the temple of Talos a new NPC could turn up in whiterun and when you speak to him he would say Vignar has charged him with the construction of the new temple. He could then ask the player for assistance and the quest would start.

In terms of where the temple would actually be built I think if its to be inside Whiterun city, Heimskr's destroyed house is probably the easiest and most logical sight as its un-accessible after the war and won't effect any other quests. The house of clan Battle-Born is just an awesome spot to build it but again it could ruin certain quests, I would think it better to make it mandatory to kill all Battle-Born's and/or throw them all in prison permanently before the temple can be built. The last spot inside the city I think would be worth thinking about is where the current shrine of Talos is, pull that down and build a proper temple there. Otherwise outside the city we would be able to build a much larger temple and we could look for a building site that is very scenic in the Whiterun hold area.

[Mefris Elmek]

[...]Problem here is that we do not have access to the voice actor that voices Vignar and his steward or any of the Battle-Borns so adding new dialouge with a different voice to them will sound very strange.[...]

That's obvious GL.I was thinking of doing the quest in an 'old school' fashion (text only dialog).

Actually, i fail to understand the logic behind siding with the Empire. You'd think that people would have some common sense. I'm not pointing fingers here, but it is clear that Beth has charicatured most Cyrodilic people as your typical ignorant Roman lot.

...and the RL people that support the Empire are emulating this perfectly.Some of them at least The Empire has been portrayed as this all powerful,righteous beast that can do no wrong and people naturally cling to this belief without investigating further.

[Hrolf Alfblod]

That quest sounds cool. Sounds difficult, though. To me, the most important thing is getting Heimskr his temple. That guy has earned it! Openly preaching the word of Talos without fear is reason enough, but then the fact that his house is destroyed when we take over Whiterun, and he doesnt complain one bit. Nope, instead he sends thanks to Talos for our arrival. That's loyalty!