What even is CHIM? :O

[Br3admax]

Velothi, can you explain the step past CHIM? It seems so confusing to me.

[Frost Mage]

The problem is that the whole changing climate was more so a cop-out than actual CHIM-ing. If we went by First Pocket Guide to Empire lore - it'd be very much a different place. Hell the Imperial City would be actually impressive.

And no. It likely won't. I haven't seen much jungles and I doubt the people behind TES: O are smart enough to realize the cop-out via Bethseda.

I don't know if that was quite it, Velothi. You have to remember that there was a long time in-between the games, and for all we know, the environment could have drastically changed.

[Velothi]

Velothi, can you explain the step past CHIM? It seems so confusing to me.

Amaranth?

It's CHIM fully realized and What Lorkhan intended, fully achieving it on a world-wide basis.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

MK doesn't talk about Amaranth much. The closest he's come to describing it is by saying it completely blows CHIM out of the water and that there's no valid comparison between the two.

[Velothi]

So far from what I heard from lore-buffs on the CHIM aspect it's basically CHIM on an entire world-wide scale or Tamrielic-scale where the full ability can be realized.

[Br3admax]

KIRKBRIDE WROTE THIS:
3) To the close dreamers, don't forget the Amaranth. There *is* one step beyond CHIM, but you're right in that it is not godhood. It's the flowering of a statehood where the images you give birth to in your dream-- stolen (?) from first dreamer-- wakes up. Wails knowing free will. And begins to dream in the same way. Children of liberty without end, and then the music lives forever as a pirate radio tuned against the rules of Heaven and the vulgarities of Hell. /
Is it when we are so like the god-head, that our dreams achieve CHIM or become like the first spirits?

[Velothi]

Easy, easy - no need to insult. There is little justification, though no one needs to act like a Valois or a Plantagenet here.

Is it when we are so like the god-head, that our dreams achieve CHIM or become like the first spirits?

Likely the latter, because the former is impossible. One can not be 'so like' the God-Head - the God Head's dreams ARE the denizens of TES. Every-single denizen from the Daedra to Aedra, mortals to immortals are all apart of the dream of the god-head.

More or less Amaranth may be what Lorkhan wanted when he sacrificed (as some say) himself - as he was the first one to say 'I AM' and 'I AM NOT'.

[Kaliber]

Beyond Vivec and Tiber using it?

Tiber Septim used CHIM to alter all of Cyrod from a tropical jungle into what it is in Oblivion. He even apparently altered time retroactively to make it where Cyrod was ALWAYS the way it was in Oblivion.

I thought that he used the Numidium to change Cyrodiil's climate to a more temperate one. I'm confused

[SajuukKhar]

Umm no.

Tiber used Numidium to unite the provinces into the Empire. Specifically he used Numidum to stomp Alinor, bringing the Summerset Isles into The Empire.

[Velothi]

Tiber changed the climate/situation of Cyrodil to "thank" the red Legions after his conquests.

[Musicman247]

Reviving this for conversation.

[Minor Edits]

I'm looking for some input on this draft of a CHIM lore page. It's obviously a glorified redirect to the Imperial Library; there's no point in reinventing the wheel.

The goal here is to highlight and explain in-game references to CHIM, without getting the page heavily bogged down in the details which are better left to TIL. But it's possible I'm missing or misstating some crucial information or nuance to the concept, so any help would be appreciated, even if it's just a suggestion for another link to add to the External Links section.

Edit- For one thing, I omitted anything about when Vivec learned CHIM because I'm not entirely clear on exactly when and how that happened.

I mean, the sequence of events, as I understand it, is that Vivec achieved divinity by drawing power from Lorkhan's Heart, then at some unknown (unknowable?) time he achieved CHIM and went back back and made it so he was always divine (leading to Twice Vehk and other stuff I'm trying to avoid due to no apparent incorporation in the games). In total, what path or paths to achieving divinity of the six Walking Ways did Vivec pursue? Am I right to say that the Walking Ways are interrelated pursuits?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

The Sermons explicitly mention Vehk learned it from the King Of Rape. His reference to it is one of the most fully fleshed out descriptions from a game level source. One of Camoran's books is subtitled CHIM and goes on for some time about esoteric concepts associated with liberty and destiny. Then there's Whiterun's street preacher and that Black Book from Dragonborn. That's most of what we have in-game.

[Warner]

So what deities do we know of have achieved Amaranth and which have achieved CHIM?

[Minor Edits]

Kirkbride specifically said that there's no evidence Talos or Vivec achieved Amaranth, and I don't think there's many other candidates.

"AE GHARTOK PADHOME [CHIM] AE ALTADOON." This appears in Sermon 15. Does anyone have a translation for this? In particular, the meaning of "AE" is unclear to me.

[Br3admax]

I, personally, like Black Book:Waking Dreams. Get it, "Waking Dreams?"

[Kerr]

CHIM, the perfect tool for writers to retcon stuff. I always found it confusing as hell, basically a joke about Vivec knowing he was in a video game turned into this massive important lore thing.

Besides, I don't see how if I am conscious and thinking that my consciousness doesn't exist. I think therefore I am and all that. Everything else in the world could be fake apart from my consciousness. And sure, I could stop existing but at the moment I am conscious, I exist.

[Marelo]

It's not that you don't exist at all, it's that you don't exist separately from anything else. The illusion you peer through when you zero sum is that of yourself as separate from anything else, resulting in you simply snapping back into unity with everything else. CHIM is what happens when you see that you are everything else and yet maintain your "separate" identity; the Eternal I.

It's like, say you're the godhead, dreaming. The actors, the players, in your dream, they're conscious and thinking and believe themselves to have identity separate from each other. But they're really just pieces of you tricked by your dream into thinking this. When they realize that, they just... stop being separate. They stop being part of the dream, those pieces of you "wake up." Unless they don't: CHIM. Lucid dreaming.

Of course, I may also be talking out of my ass.

[Yurt Dweller]

Tiber changed the climate/situation of Cyrodil to "thank" the red Legions after his conquests.

How did Tiber change the climate in Cyrodiil?

[The SheoDovah]

He used his Thu'um to change the Climate.

[CBR JGWRR]

Tiber changed the climate/situation of Cyrodil to "thank" the red Legions after his conquests.

How did Tiber change the climate in Cyrodiil?

"CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled."

He dreamt it to be so.

He used his Thu'um to change the Climate.

Nope.

[Minor Edits]

I don't think there's anything which demands they be mutually exclusive methods.

[CBR JGWRR]

Apart from it being stated in game...

"I breathe now, in royalty, (CHIM) and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"

[Pilaf The Defiler]

AE in Ehlnofex usually means something like "is" or "of". Maybe some concept equating things.

[Br3admax]

Apart from it being stated in game...

"I breathe now, in royalty, (CHIM) and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"

"I BREATH now in royalty."
What does that sound like to you?