Dark Brotherhood (Club/Faction)

[bepeasej]

I think the sanctuary in black marsh should be reestablished first. Seeing as it takes years to train a shadowscale, it should be rebuilt first so that when it is time to reestablish other sanctuaries, they will already have a few shadowscales to send out.

SURVEY

Spoiler:

1. What made you want to become an assassin for Sithis?
For fame, glory, and to kill people I don't like.

2. Who is your favourite Skyrim sanctuary assassin?
Cicero and veezara

3. What do you make of Astrid?
I feel only hatred for her. She nearly destroyed the brotherhood for good. Luckily nazir, babette, and cicero survived.
4. What are your feeelings toward Cicero?
Better than most brotherhood members. He knew not to trust Astrid. If not for his instincts, there so would be no brotherhood left.

5. Do you hate the Penitus Oculatus?
Only the maro family.

6. Is there anything special you do when playing a Dark Brotherhood character (roleplaying-wise)?
Use a lot of sneaking, archery, and make my own contracts.
7. What is your favourite Dark Brotherhood related quote?
Killing the gourmet will leave an emptiness in the collective soul of skyrim. That pleases me.
8. What do you think would make a stronger Broherhood?
More vampires and werewolves.
9. Have you ever destroyed the Dark Brotherhood? Never.
10. What did you do with the money you earned from the last main assssination? Did you lie to Nazzir?

Used all of it to restore dawnstar sanctuary.

High rock would be a good location but the sanctuary there was raided and destroyed. The only good location (factually) would be elsweyr. The sanctuary there was only shut down meaning it is still intact. Anywhere else they would either have to find a new sanctuary, rebuild an old one , or build a completely new one.

Penitus oculatus are not a major threat in skyrim. They have only one small outpost in dragon bridge which houses one soldier. The only place they would be any threat is cyrodiil, their main base of operations. They will probably be weaker now due to the fact that the emperor was just assassinated.

[bepeasej]

I would not mind taking a contract on nazeem's head. Worst skyrim Npc. Hate him so much.

[ZackyZombify]

Don't quadruple post man. There's an edit button.

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

Woot, we have new discussion!

Having 1 sanctuary destroyed doesn't mean you can't build another one in the same province. Take High Rock for example, you could still rebuild the Wayrest Sanctuary, or, if the authorities know where it is, you could build one in say Daggerfall (daggerfall seems to be going through some political troubles at the moment, a perfect time to sell our services, and to gain legal immunity by doing so).

I wouldn't go about building a sanctuary in Elsweyr immediately for the simple fact that it is to far away. Its at the other side of the continent, and thus communications would be a nightmare.

As i suggested above, i also think that the rebuilding process would require cozying up to the political systems of Tamriel. For instance, Getting close to Maven Black-Briar, then using her Imperial friends, and Motierre and his associates to gain political influence (behind the scenes) in exchange for 'business'.

But before any of this can happen, we need numbers. A petty compliment of knives in Dawnstar is not enough to bring the Brotherhood to Glory. Bringing us back to what i said ages ago, the Brotherhood should first establish itself firmly in Skyrim, I can see reason in establishing a sanctuary in Riften (the prefect home for a band of assassins, and close proximity to Maven, Morrowind and Cyrodiil).

[bepeasej]

Building a sanctuary in riften would conflict with the thieves guild. I think somewhere in markarth would be a good place to set up a sanctuary. Not much civilization out there so they wouldn't be drawing too much attention to themselves. It would allow them to rebuild. They wouldn't get much trouble from the forsworn because their only concern is killing nords.

P.S. my bad. Did not mean to quadruple post.

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

Building a sanctuary in riften would conflict with the thieves guild. I think somewhere in markarth would be a good place to set up a sanctuary. Not much civilization out there so they wouldn't be drawing too much attention to themselves. It would allow them to rebuild. They wouldn't get much trouble from the forsworn because their only concern is killing nords.

P.S. my bad. Did not mean to quadruple post.

I don't know, the Thieves guild and the Dark brotherhood have left each other alone well enough. The Db even gets in contact with members of the guild

[bepeasej]

Technically their only contact is delvin Mallory. And having two guilds in the same city would cause too much confusion and conflict.

I still think markarth hold would be a good spot for a db sanctuary.

[ZackyZombify]

And maven. But it would also cause conflict with the ex-tong member in the guild. I could see them settling somewhere around Windhelm. Since the stormcloaks wouldn't let the penitus or legion near even if they had a good reason.

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

Technically their only contact is delvin Mallory. And having two guilds in the same city would cause too much confusion and conflict.

I still think markarth hold would be a good spot for a db sanctuary.

There is no suggestion that the Brotherhood and the Thieves guild would get in each others way, or even conflict with each other. Correct me if I'm wrong, but In the game 'Daggerfall' the Thieves Guild and the Dark brotherhood would have public guildhalls, and would not get in each others way.

One is a guild of thieves, who's job is to steal and smuggle, and not to kill. Another is a group of murderers, who's job is to kill, but not necessarily to steal. They are not competitors.

This is corroborated by the contact with Mallory, if for whatever reason the Guild and the Brotherhood had bad history, or any reason to oppose each other, he would not be in contact with the Brotherhood.

Of course, Ravyns presence is the only suggestion of any dispute. But it seems as though he is intentionally trying to stay out of the Brotherhood's eyes. Unless the Brotherhood went searching for him, he would not become a problem.

Although I'm not saying a sanctuary in markarth is a bad idea. Markarth is swimming with blood and gold, and has close proximity to Hammerfell and High Rock. Although communications could be disrupted by the Forsworn.

[Dark Spark]

There've often been multiplie Sanctuaries in any one province— a Sanctuary is under the guardianship of a Speaker, and there are four Speakers in the Black Hand.

In TES IV, the Cheydinhal Sanctuary was under the control of Lucien Lachance, but it was widely acknowledged that it was not the only Sanctuary in Cyrodiil.

Oh and by the by: the Listener does not have a Silencer. Only the Speakers possess a Silencer, for two very plain reasons.

Reason #1: The Listener has the entire Black Hand, four Speakers and four Silencers alike, to execute the most difficult contracts.

Reason #2: The Listener is the corporeal nexus of the Black Hand and the very word of the Night Mother. The Listener is, in no uncertain terms, marked by the Blood Hand of Sithis. The Listener doesn't get that title by pushing requisition forms and finance reports...


...which raises the question— who does all the boring paperwork?

[bepeasej]

who does all the boring paperwork? [/quote]

First I don't think the dark brotherhood would have any boring paperwork, but if they did it would most likely be done by the person in charge of each sanctuary.

I know this is an unlikely scenario, but what if the dark brotherhood and thieves guild got a contract on the same target. Whose contract takes precedence over the other? Each would think their contract is more important.

Maven is only loosely affiliated with the dark brotherhood. She took out a contract on someone and if it came down to it, Maven would side with the thieves guild over the dark brotherhood.

Not basing any of this on fact. Except for the part about Maven black-briar.

[ZackyZombify]

But it's much easier to steal from a dead person..

[DikaSmausha]

I would not mind taking a contract on nazeem's head. Worst skyrim Npc. Hate him so much.

Why don't you like Nazeem? He is one of my favorite characters!

[ZackyZombify]

Have you been to the cloud district? What am I saying, of course you haven't.

[bepeasej]

Speaking of stealing from the dead we are now getting into the summerset shadows which is a whole different issue completely. I don't think the thieves guild steal from the dead.

If someone could lead the dark brotherhood, which race would you prefer them to be? (Living races only)

[ZackyZombify]

Imperial. I think we should let the ghost of Lucien reign. And no the thieves guild don't kill them. They never say anything about stealing from the dead. For all they know if the DB and TG had a same target, the thief's hand could be and their pocket and he could just drop dead from the assassin. Doesn't mean that the contract should be forfeit. The thief didn't do anything wrong. The target just happened to die.

[bepeasej]

I didn't mean the thieves guild killed anyone. I don't think they steal from the dead. I think it would be interesting to see one if the tagline in the dark brotherhood. Not to lead it, just to be apart of it.
I would like to see a khajiit in charge of the dark brotherhood.

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

I didn't mean the thieves guild killed anyone. I don't think they steal from the dead. I think it would be interesting to see one if the tagline in the dark brotherhood. Not to lead it, just to be apart of it.
I would like to see a khajiit in charge of the dark brotherhood.

My argument to why they would not mind each other.

As for leadership, I think race is unimportant (and in fact, counter-productive). What we need are a hand made of leaders, who can see the pros and cons of every action and make a judgement accordingly.

[ZackyZombify]

Exactly. Reformation of the Black Hand.

[bepeasej]

As for leadership, I think race is unimportant (and in fact, counter-productive). What we need are a hand made of leaders, who can see the pros and cons of every action and make a judgement accordingly.[/quote]

That's true. I was just asking to see what races the black hand should consist of. I think if the black hand consists of all one race then they might favor dark brotherhood assassins of the same race more than assassins of other races. Khajiit, Imperial, Dark Elf, & Argonian would be my preferred races to be represented in the black hand.

Should the black hand reside in skyrim or another region?

[ZackyZombify]

There's no reason why the DB/BH should be confined to one province. And I think Breton or Imperial would make better leaders as most mer and beast races tend to compete and say "oh I'm best" which could cause problems. But if I had to pick 4 Speakers I'd choose 2 Bretons, an imperial and a Bosmer. As Bosmer tend to have less of a "high and mighty" attitude of the mer bunch.

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

I think the hand should be spread throughout Tamriel (in fact, they should lead movements to establish new sanctuaries in new provinces).

Also, in an organisation as close-knit as the Dark brotherhood (it is a 'family', remember), I feel that racism would not exist, particularly amungst the leadership (or at least racism against DB agents).

[ZackyZombify]

Not racism persay. More like behavioral instinct. I mean you rarely meet an altmer or dunmer that aren't full of themselves. But yes I do see your point with the family. I'm also reminded that the last member in the Oblivion Black Hand was an Altmer, so I retract that argument. But also there could be spies for the thalmor.

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

Not racism persay. More like behavioral instinct. I mean you rarely meet an altmer or dunmer that aren't full of themselves. But yes I do see your point with the family. I'm also reminded that the last member in the Oblivion Black Hand was an Altmer, so I retract that argument. But also there could be spies for the thalmor.

I fail to see how the Thalmor are any more a threat to the Brotherhood than the Penitus Oculatus. Yes, they could outlaw the brotherhood, but outside their own terriotries, they wouldn't give a damn.

That said, if (as I suggested above) the brotherhood were to appeal to the Dominion's need for institutional murder, then the Dominion could become a powerful ally (hell, alongside the Empire, perhaps. The Brotherhood is supposed to be treacherous and deceitful).

[ZackyZombify]

Aye, a threat isn't what I was trying to put across. Just saying that the thalmor like to have their fingers in everything. And I could also see points on both sides of DB becoming a "morag tong" to the thalmor. But it also goes against alot of their ways.