anyone else think elder scrolls has become too convoluted?

[gamerboy]

Honestly I think the elder scrolls lore has become less and less "beleivable." (i use that term lightly) For instance, in skyrim the player is now a half human half dragon demigod who has killed a god (Alduin) as opposed to previous titles where the player was simply a great warrior/hero. Also traveling to realms such as apocrypha, sovngarde, the soul cairn, the shivering isles, and the deadlands kinda gives me a feeling of "goofiness" about the whole series. I get the same feeling about skyrim's lore and world of warcraft's lore (which I think most would agree is way over the top in terms of lore). I will probobly get flogged for this but I think it would be good if bethesda rebooted the series or even created a new medievel themed series. I just wanted to know if anyone else felt this way.

P.S. all criticisms of my opinion are welcome, harsh or otherwise

[Yaije]

>.>

eh... I'd say almalexia was more of a god than alduin personally. Though, how much of the previous games had you play a character on such a level. I know it's not just new in Oblivion and Skyrim.

[Avron the S'wit]

You kill plenty of gods in Morrowind. I thought it was very enjoyable.

[Br3admax]

Since when has being Dragonborn been a new thing? I thought that that was the bases of all of theses Elder Scrolls games anyway. Doing work for the Dragonborn. Does it suck that you are one now? No.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Apparently only you, OP.

In fact, I find this topic quite amusing because 99% of the complaints about Skyrim's story from long term fans is that it's far less complicated and far less mythical than those of previous games like Morrowind or Daggerfall. Similar complaints were levied against Oblivion. I agree with this school of thought - slightly. I'd argue that Skyrim and Oblivion aren't nearly as dumbed down as others think, though.

Also, you apparently skipped through lots of dialogue and didn't read many books if you think a Dragonborn is a half Dragon, half human. That's a very poor and simplified understanding of what one is. I suggest you at least try to pay attention to the storyline before you bash it.

[Avron the S'wit]

I do think that Oblivion was not as grand in terms of main quest/central themes as Morrowind (I'm an absolute Morrowhiner, as it were), but I still loved Oblivion. Skyrim doesn't necessarily have the same pull as those games, but I still think it's enjoyable. You can definitely tell by gameplay that Bethesda was reaching out to a broader, bigger crowd of video gamers as opposed to long term RPG or even TES fans, but it's still an exciting experience for me. I agree with Pilaf: it's definitely not as dumbed down as some would have you think.

Honestly, even Morrowind had its draw backs, but I enjoyed it since I'm a fan of old school RPGs, which is what I grew up on; and Oblivion was a fantastic and very memorable game for me. I should think that, if I ever beat Skyrim, it'll be the same, and I've had a great time traversing through the snow and fields there.

[gamerboy]

I feel like I gave the wrong impression. I really liked all of the elder scrolls games. I guess what I'm trying to say is that certain additions to the lore like "CHIM" and the whole sheazzarine thing have made the elder scrolls lore (in my opinion) seem kind of difficult to follow for me. Not because it is complex but instead because it seems like the writers are using over the top, wacky, supernatural story pieces instead of puting effort into focusing on the more "down to earth" aspects of the elder scrolls. One example I think about is the companions questline is all about lycanthropy and ancient curses whereas the fighters guild storyline from oblivion involved a (again, in my opinion) great storyline about a rogue competitor using drugs to make their mercs crazy.

[Yaije]

And when you find out the rogue competitors of the fighter's guild all get high on the life sustaining sap of the ancient hist tree?

edit:

Spoiler:

it's the big secret as to why they're so good at their jobs. IMO it seems that elderscrolls have always started out seemingly mundane or borderline plausible and then get something blown open into the realm of weirdness.

[p-sto]

In fact, I find this topic quite amusing because 99% of the complaints about Skyrim's story from long term fans is that it's far less complicated and far less mythical than those of previous games like Morrowind or Daggerfall.

Actually my main complaint against Skyrim is that the story is too simple and dull and the lore to me is convoluted and obscure. But I haven't played Morrowind since 2006 so it's possible I was just more easily impressed back then.

[Yaije]

The main things that get me about skyrim with regards to the story (or stories) is that they all seem so short. You get started and blam bang boom through a couple dungeons and you're nearing the finish. I don't know, maybe there should have been a few more things before being declared dragonborn... like some lead in with the civil war or something rather than:

Randomguy: You're DRAGONBORN!!!!
Me: wha..
Random: HE JUST ATE THAT DRAGON"S SOUL!!!!
POWERFULVOICEINTHESKY: GET OVER HERE!!!!


Sometimes I do miss getting run around the country side doing random things.

[Chaos the N'wah]

Somehow, I find that the reincarnation of an ancient hero by the graces of a god with the intention of closing a story thousands of years in the making and changed the entirety of a culture far is grander than say just the last in the long line of people chosen by a god to stop his offspring from killing/enslaving his followers.

If you can believe that mortals can be made into gods, reincarnation, transdimensional barriers, stealing from a god, divine diseases, a moon suspended above a city, and government sanctioned murder I think you can handle a cup of coffee with a dash of dragon's blood

[Dark Spark]

Honestly I think the elder scrolls lore has become less and less "beleivable." (i use that term lightly) For instance, in skyrim the player is now a half human half dragon demigod who has killed a god (Alduin) as opposed to previous titles where the player was simply a great warrior/hero. Also traveling to realms such as apocrypha, sovngarde, the soul cairn, the shivering isles, and the deadlands kinda gives me a feeling of "goofiness" about the whole series. I get the same feeling about skyrim's lore and world of warcraft's lore (which I think most would agree is way over the top in terms of lore). I will probobly get flogged for this but I think it would be good if bethesda rebooted the series or even created a new medievel themed series. I just wanted to know if anyone else felt this way.

P.S. all criticisms of my opinion are welcome, harsh or otherwise

There are time when a hero has to step back and shout "What? Are you joking me?"
It makes them far less creepy than the characters who'll shout "Finally! It's all mine!"

Goofy— gets fun.

[Moeboid]

I enjoyed Morrowind far more than Skyrim and Oblivion. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure why. I have some ideas, but haven't really reached any conclusions about it yet. I think the stories definitely have something to do with it, but whether or not it's about how believable they are, I can't say yet. Anyway, I think you're on to something gamerboy.

For me, I think one of the reasons I liked Morrowind so much more than Oblivion or Skyrim has to do with the technology of the time. And I'm not saying that it was better, because it obviously wasn't. What I'm saying is that they were forced to do certain things because of the technology of the time, and it happened to work. Whether that's by design, or whether it was just a fluke, I have no idea. But, for example, I think that the text based conversation had a lot to do with why I liked Morrowind so much. Text based conversation allows people say so much more than audio conversation and you don't have to worry about voice acting (which I thought was average in Skyrim and bad in Oblivion). Would it have been possible to have enough audio to engage in casual chit chat with the NPC's of Skyrim and Oblivion like you can in Morrowind? I doubt it, but I think that feature added SO much to the game. I think there will be a time when I might prefer audio conversation for an Elder Scrolls game, but for the moment, I much prefer text.

Next is the illusion of distance that the limited technology of the time helps to create. Part of this is brilliant graphic design: Each of the areas looks different. Far more so than anything in Oblivion of Skyrim. But adding greatly to the effect is the limited view distance (graphics technology), lack of a quest marker, the fact that NPC's basically never move between cities (possible AI limitation), the fact that there are Silt Striders and Guild Guides offering transport services (implying that walking isn't something the people of Morrowind like to do), and that pretty much every NPC you meet on the road is lost or needs your help for some other reason (easy quests to include). Some of those are limitations of the technology of the time, but together they help to enhance the sense of there being great distances between places, and also that the world outside the cities is hostile and something to be scared of. It makes the world far more mysterious and exciting.

The evil lurking in Morrowind also isn't as obvious as it is in Skyrim or Oblivion. The subtle clues are there but the hard evidence you have to go searching for. I think that makes it more scary and exciting. It's left up to your own imagination. What you can't see is always more scary than what you can. And I love how the NPC's react to it. Most don't seem too worried. Don't really blame them. What would they have seen and what would they know that would have them worried? But if they like you, they might admit that they've noticed things that have them questioning how safe they are. I find it so much more interesting that way. But would their reactions be the same if the AI allowed Bethesda to have NPC's that react through their behaviours as well as just through what they say? Maybe not, and maybe it wouldn't be as good a game?

[CBR JGWRR]

And nobody has mentioned that the PC in Oblivion became a god rather than just killing them...

[wyldefx]

I don't think the lore dummied down in Skyrim. I think it was confusing in the first place. For instance, Meridia hates necromancy. Yet he/she produced Umaril the Unfeathered. The Ayleids were extreme necromancers from what I've read. By all rights Meridia should have joined forces to wipe them out rather than protecting them. A different Daedric prince would have been a better choice.

[Chaos the N'wah]

And nobody has mentioned that the PC in Oblivion became a god rather than just killing them...

It feels more like a divine disease than godhood, something akin to corprus, sure you're a god, but you lose just about everything that made you who you were and doomed to play the mad man for eternity.
Clown killing and plenty of cheese does ease the pain though..