Last Dragonborn or Latest?

[BetaB17]

I don't think he was forced to need your soul to escape. He could however offer it to Mora for his own freedom. Then again the soul of a dova is unique and so Mora would prize it. Now why would he wait so long till now to return. It may be because Alduin returned and he and Mora would hate to see the world end. That or Mora began to lose interest seeing that there was "fresh blood" available. Its all hard to think of why the timing was as it is. At least it makes more logic than with the dawnguard dlc. Dragons raising from the dead, okay. Also vampires wanting to blot out the sun at the same time, crazy.

[Hejerrick]

This has gotten kinda of topic it seems...

[BetaB17]

Quiet true, but it could be worse? =_= challenge accepted?
I play, but the main reason we got off track is because the series of topics are so related that answers for one may be for another. If we can understand the truth of the dragonborn then we can understand the begin to end. As for genes, we kinda already answered it. It tends to follow an order but can easily be granted to another or individual.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Like the Book of the Dragonborn says "Neither, and both." The illusion of succession can mean actual succession when mythopoetic forces are concerned. There's an ARG going on at the official forums right now that concerns a high tech, alternate dimension version of Cyrodiil, and there's a line from the protagonist from that which applies here, too. He is poisoned by a Kothringi shaman, and states that while he does not personally believe in tribal magic, the Kothringi DO believe, and that makes it real.

So Katariah's son may not have been Dragonborn, but the people BELIEVE he was, and that makes Akatosh believe and have faith in him, so he became Dragonborn regardless. That's really how a lot of this TES stuff works. It's detailed a bit in "On Gods and Worship" and other sources. It's also given as a reason the Ministry of Truth fell. Not because Vivec lost his connection with the Heart but because people stopped believing in him.

[BetaB17]

^True, that basically sums up the details. As for Vivic, who is to say the collective will of the people is no different than that of a god's? If I remember mortals are independent pieces of the aedra them self. If collectively they unite their will, it can show up as that of an aedra. Same for others and spirits, they draw power from a collective will and so are dependent. Old gods or spirits long forgotten would slowly fade away and only be shells of their former selves. So the crisis that befell Morrowind was triggered by a lose in faith of the tribunals, and more directly Vivic himself. Originally his own power was sufficient, but as he grew weak, he was dependent on the people while he shouldered the burden.
~Also along the lines of collective will, I somewhat believe certain aedra to have split personalities. Though some things can be misinterpreted or manipulated to fit certain views, this does not reflect truth. As for cultural adaption, many of the same aedra(though by different names) reappear again and again. I think some developed split personalities to more properly protect their children. Look at men and mer, some aedra would be favored by both though cannot be enemy and friend to both. Honestly the Hist would answer most our questions of lore and so give us the original ideal

[Br3admax]

Mortals are not pieces of Aedra. That's a false human belief, to my knowledge. The smaller Aedra became part of Nirn, like the Earthbones, and then over time became mortal.

[BetaB17]

Nirn and to a larger extent mundas is a collection of pieces of aedra. If you follow down the ladder, mortals(as in man or mer) are pieces as well. Other than their sentient minds and souls, they are no different than other mortal beings. And what of the smaller aedra, who's to say they were independent beings of their own creation or merely smaller portions of a greater being.

[Br3admax]

Everything we know says that these were just separate beings. Not pieces of larger ones. That's why the sun, Magnus, is huge and the stars aren't. Varying sizes and strength. Unless you mean the God-Head, which I doubt.

[BetaB17]

I'm just proposing theories. It is true that mortals as we know are descendants of aedra, and so a small independent portion remains. And I am aware of magnus and the lesser, but no matter how you look at it they all share a common origin. Their individuality and power they collected is what differs between on to another. Those that are strong can therefor risk tearing a piece of themselves to aid in creation. Seeing as its no longer bound to its origins, it gains its own individuality. In a stand of purity, those that were first spawned are no different than aedra, maybe even equal in terms of an earthbound. In a stand of creation, things will slowly stabilize and take form, losing its perfection while gaining freedom and life. Creation could of been done via volunteering or trickery, and we may never know

[Br3admax]

Damn, this is way off topic.

Anyway, maybe, but I doubt that too. But I guess it could be plausible, if unlikely.

[Musicman247]

Damn, this is way off topic.

Agreed. Let's fix that, shall we?

[BetaB17]

I was waiting for a reply before stating how we landed on a new topic of its own. And if anyone has noticed, I tend to favor the plausible and unlikely along with logic and the accepted. Honestly, all possibilities hold some manner of truth. If I recall from a quest >_> even the falsehoods hold great importance, not just what you deemed as truth. That's maybe why the elder scrolls are all mighty because they cover all possible futures and pasts.
-Any-who, I think the original topic should resume, though I already said much of what I wanted. That only remains one last thing that I wanted.. no wait.. needs to say what ever you do, don't feed the bunnies0.o even the deadra rightfully fear those beasts I can see there is no end to my insanity huh

[The SheoDovah]

Dragonborns only have two purposes. The first purpose was to light the dragonfires, which prevented the Princes from invading, up untill the Oblivion Crisis and how it was resolved resulted in dragonborn emperors not being required.

The second purpose, which dates back to the very first dragonborn, is to kill dragons and absorb their soul. For a while, they only have one purpose. Due to a lack of dragons. If there had been any dragonborns between Oblivion and Skyrim, they would have either been ignored or just didn't know that they were a dragonborn.

When Alduin was cast into the year 201 of the 4th Era, the Dovahkiin's only purpose was to kill dragons and to banish Alduin from Nirn. When he did that, he fulfilled his destiny but in doing so, got rid of the only purpose that all dragonborns had. Killing dragons. Because without Alduin, they can't come back to life. Thus there is no reason for Akatosh to create another Dragonborn. But it is possible that the Dovahkiin will come back when Alduin is allowed to eat the world to ensure that he eats the world instead of taking it over. Overall, the Dovahkiin is the last dragonborn as i suspect the nords will drive the dragons from Skyrim with his/her help or the dragons just become a part of Skyrim's daily life and several dragonhunting guilds are founded to protect the citzens of Skyrim.

[CBR JGWRR]

Or the best result of dragon-human alliance.

[The SheoDovah]

I can see that happening as Bethesda can use that to explain why Skyrim was able to defeat the Dominion when they invade Skyrim as it will happen, judging by the fate of the last two provinces.(Cyrodiil got invaded and Morrowind got destroyed). Plus, it would be interesting to see how they would do a dragon-human alliance. I wouldn't be surprised if in TES6, we heard rumours of nords attacking the dominion in other provinces or dragons targeting only the dominion. ooo, what if the next DLC results in us creating the alliance between dragons and humans as the Dovahkiin is probably the only one who can do that.

[CBR JGWRR]

Greybeards via Paarthy (assuming he lives...) might manage it, but Paarthy's survival has a big question mark, and even then Angeir might not approve of a dragon/human alliance for, essentially, just the purpose of elf slaughtering...

Would be cool.


Shame it's unlikely though...

[Hejerrick]

That kind of DLC would only be made if Paarthurnax's survival was insured. Unless Odahviing took his place as leader of the dragons, as he can't be killed that might be a possibility, though I have no idea what you'd be doing with an army of dragons. You couldn't invade anywhere, too much landmass would have to be made to account for a single piece of DLC.

The idea does sound rather fabulous though: You and the dragons against the vile thalmor, reforging the old empire with dragonfire. Your race and sex lost to the pages of history, but your empire lasting thousands of years.

... One can dream...

Some DLC involving the rest of the dragons in some way would be nice though, there are so many left (I assume) there's no way the Last dragonborn can slay them all in one lifetime, who knows if other dragons might possibly learn to master dragon-reviving thu'um of Alduin. Dragons grow in power with time, if a dragonborn is needed once again, this being the last one will be really inconvenient. (and we're back on track!)

[CBR JGWRR]

WW2, Dresden. Replace 1000 bomber raids with 1000 dragon raids...

[Hejerrick]

WW2, Dresden. Replace 1000 bomber raids with 1000 dragon raids...

I doubt there are that many dragons left, though the imaginary imagery is making me drool

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Mortals are not pieces of Aedra. That's a false human belief, to my knowledge. The smaller Aedra became part of Nirn, like the Earthbones, and then over time became mortal.

Actually, it's the Altmer who believe they're descended from the gods and are therefore weaker pieces of them. The Humans believe the gods made them out of Creatia, not from themselves. Both sides could be equally wrong, in the end. Nobody is really around from back then except for Lorkhan, and he's both dead and insane.

In any event, to tie this back in with the topic ... Shor, who is Akatosh, who(se son) is Alduin, is both working to destroy Mundus and prolong it. Talk about an internal conflict. And that doesn't even count Auriel and the Aldmer gods who said "Screw it. I'm going home" and left through holes in the sky. And who is to say any of that ever actually happened...or that all of it didn't happen?

The Scrolls have a preordained sequence of events, or at least every conceivable variation of events which could occur already prophecized. But without the hero there can be no event to enact prophecy. The Dragonborn is a hero - sort of a loophole or trump card played by the gods to either help prophecy along or hinder it. Akatosh sent Alduin to destroy the world. He sent the Dragonborn to preserve it. Does he favor one or the other? Does it ultimately matter who wins?

[CBR JGWRR]

Does it ultimately matter who wins?

Hell no. Alduin wins in the end...

[The SheoDovah]

Alduin will return and when he does, no-one will be able to stand up to him. Without any Dragonborns, the world will be eaten and begin anew. Akatosh may send the Dovahkiin to ensure that Alduin eats the world instead of enslaving it due to the Dovahkiin's soul belonging to Akatosh regardless of who the soul was promised to by the Dovahkiin. I wonder if Akatosh will wipe any desire to take over the world from Alduin or restrict the amount of free will he has?

Regarding the amount of dragons that are/were alive during the return of Alduin, i suspect he only managed to bring back 200 dragons in lore due to the Dovahkiin managing to banish him before he was able to raise an army. It could be only 100 dragons though as i suspect it took weeks to locate buried dragons or dragons that he could bring back to life due to the nords having kept heads of the dead dragons as trophies after the dragon wars or the dragonborn heroes destroying the bodies of the dragons whenever they had the chance to ensure that Alduin couldn't bring that dragon back, if they hadn't already absorbed the soul of the dragon or told non dragonborns to destroy the bodies.

[CBR JGWRR]

If he raises one dragon a day, and the dovahkiin takes a month or two to do the main quest (completely doable ingame) then there will only be 60 odd dragons, excluding survivors from the akaviri...

[The SheoDovah]

True but judging from the previous games, the heroes take a year or roughly around a year to save Nirn. The lazy buggers! (i may be wrong as i've not looked up the timeline).

[Br3admax]

True but judging from the previous games, the heroes take a year or roughly around a year to save Nirn. The lazy buggers! (i may be wrong as i've not looked up the timeline).

How did you come to this conclusion? Unless this is Dragon Age: Origins, no one has said that. At the most, gameplay wise, the Hero saves the world in a few months.(Unless this is Arena, which they had to travel around the known world for.)