Last Dragonborn or Latest?

[Hejerrick]

I've seen this term, the Last Dragonborn, being used quite a lot in wikis lately, and I find it quite confusing. I don't read every single book while adventuring through Skyrim, or talk to every single man woman or child, so I may just have missed it, but does anything or anyone describe the current dragonborn as being the last?

I've always thought he/she was just the one dragonborn who would arise to defeat Alduin. Other individuals have been bestowed with dragonblood before, so I don't understand why this one has to be the last. Again, I may have missed that piece of lore somewhere, but I have done a some amount of research before asking.

I understand that it's easier to call the hero of, uhm... Skyrim? the Last Dragonborn, but isn't it slightly wrong to do so? Sure he/she is the last for now, but one can never know what tricks the guys over at Bethesda have up their sleeves for the next TES installment.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I've seen this term, the Last Dragonborn, being used quite a lot in wikis lately, and I find it quite confusing. I don't read every single book while adventuring through Skyrim, or talk to every single man woman or child, so I may just have missed it, but does anything or anyone describe the current dragonborn as being the last?

I've always thought he/she was just the one dragonborn who would arise to defeat Alduin. Other individuals have been bestowed with dragonblood before, so I don't understand why this one has to be the last. Again, I may have missed that piece of lore somewhere, but I have done a some amount of research before asking.

I understand that it's easier to call the hero of, uhm... Skyrim? the Last Dragonborn, but isn't it slightly wrong to do so? Sure he/she is the last for now, but one can never know what tricks the guys over at Bethesda have up their sleeves for the next TES installment.

It's from a prophecy in an Elder Scroll. The Tsaesci had read and interpreted it and recorded it on Alduin's Wall in the Reach. Paarthurnax from the vanilla game was aware of it. Miraak even knew about it and he's been trapped in Oblivion since the Merethic Era. There are several explicit references to it in the vanilla game and the Dragonborn expansion. The Scrolls know the past, present and all possible futures. They assert there will be no more Dragonborn. It's kinda hard to override their authority. Even the gods fear the Scrolls.

Of course there's a loophole. Miraak himself is an exception. He appears chronologically after the Last Dragonborn, but he was actually born/created as the First. If some other Dragonborn are trapped in parallel dimensions, frozen in time or are resurrected from the afterlife like Wulfharth sometimes is, they could appear after the death of the Last Dragonborn and not necessarily break the prophecy. The prophecy is that Akatosh won't create any more, so there's wiggle room for cheating.

[Hejerrick]

Huh? I don't understand how I missed that, because I've certainly had to hear it a couple of times, that's quite embarrassing.

Thanks a lot for clearing that up.

[CBR JGWRR]

The prophecy is written in the book of the dragonborn, available on a table in the Keep in Helgen, which explictly states our dragonborn is the last. Can't miss it really.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

No problem. The main written source is "The Book of the Dragonborn", which Esbern also translates from Akaviri on Alduin's Wall:

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

[Hejerrick]

And I know I've read that book before, somehow I must've prevented that last line from ever connecting with my eyes or brain. Oh well, I'll let yo know next time I've managed to miss important and seemingly unmissable plot points.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Please do. We're here to help.

Remember what I said about loopholes. The gods can find a way to work around Prophecy, which is oddly specific. Miraak appearing after the Last Dragonborn is one example, and we know the Greybeards can summon Wulfharth from Sovngarde, so another Dragonborn may appear in the future, but Akatosh is unable or unwilling to impart any new mortals with Dragon Souls. Prophecy prevents it.

[Hejerrick]

This question comes a bit out of nowhere, but do we know if the dragonblood is carried on through breeding, or if it's something Akatosh/All-Maker personally blesses someone with when they are born? The Septim Dynasty was a family of Dragonborns correct?

If a child can inherit the dragonblood the Last Dragonborn could be the second Tiber Septim, not that bethesda would allow that to happen, but still, my wife and I have access to quite a number of beds around Skyrim. Seeing as how we're only allowed to adopt a child, it would seem that Bethesda thought of that eventuality.. Though it was probably because implementing childbirth would be a mechanic no one would want to wait for.

So I guess my real question is: would the children of the Last Dragonborn also be dragonborn? Does the blood work that way?

[CBR JGWRR]

Nope, it isn't inherited. Well, at least not uniformly inherited.

[BetaB17]

Its less of a hereditary gene and more of a blessing. Yes those that share in the blood are likely to inherit the opportunity, but your not strictly limited to relation. Others could be blessed with the soul of a dova and never know, indirectly passing it on to a future hero. So its equally possible you may gain the dragonblood from birth or your ancestor. So yes maybe your character could have a child, but they will never become a dragonborn unless blessed. Idk its all hard to understand because it seems like it doesn't follow simple genealogy. Personally I wished the elder scrolls didn't proclaim the current to be the last of his kind. Then again Alduin is proclaimed to return at the end, so it is possible(though unlikely) for the "real" last dragonborn to appear. It would just seem so fitting with Miraak calling you the last as a means of an insult, but the elder scrolls kinda limit things. Still, it is not out of the question for our current dragonborn to find a way to escape death. Unlike Miraak who went to oblivion, one could enter Aetherius or just simple stasis

[Hejerrick]

Hmm... Though I doubt Bethesda intends it to be so, isn't it entirely possible that everyone was wrong, and you are not the last? If Alduin is not gone forever, which he seems not to be, you couldn't be the last one... Otherwise he'll just return when you're dead.

Oh well, with every new game a lot of history and knowledge, new and old, is created, maybe some "new" old tome in the next game will explain Alduin's defeat/disappearance more clearly.

Or it'll remain a mystery for us to scratch our heads over for all time..

[CBR JGWRR]

Alduin will return. All our character did was delay the end, not stop it.

[Hejerrick]

That's what I thought, then what was the point of defeating him? If fulfilling the prophecy was only a means of delaying the exact same end seems rather pointless to me, why even bestow the dragonblood for the last time upon the hero, if it doesn't matter?

It seems a bit stupid being the Last Dragonborn if you're efforts make little to no difference in the grand scheme of things. Being a creature of time, Alduin probably won't even feel the years passing until he returns to end the world, this time with no opposition, because for some reason there was such a thing as a last dragonborn.

It would have made more sense to me if the prophecy spoke of a cycle, that every time Alduin threatens to consume the world, a dragonborn will rise to stop him, and should that one dragonborn fail, the world will end.

Sure it makes being the Dragonborn less special, but at least your efforts aren't pointless.

[CBR JGWRR]

He can't simply return - he has no form now, until the final ending of the world.

Our character served to... put him back in his rightful place as world eater, not world ruler like he changed to.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

This question comes a bit out of nowhere, but do we know if the dragonblood is carried on through breeding, or if it's something Akatosh/All-Maker personally blesses someone with when they are born? The Septim Dynasty was a family of Dragonborns correct?

If a child can inherit the dragonblood the Last Dragonborn could be the second Tiber Septim, not that bethesda would allow that to happen, but still, my wife and I have access to quite a number of beds around Skyrim. Seeing as how we're only allowed to adopt a child, it would seem that Bethesda thought of that eventuality.. Though it was probably because implementing childbirth would be a mechanic no one would want to wait for.

So I guess my real question is: would the children of the Last Dragonborn also be dragonborn? Does the blood work that way?

In all likelihood, if it was a simple matter of heredity, then there should still be thousands of Dragonborn running around.

Think about it. There were three entire dynasties of Dragonborn Emperors. Alessia's dynasty had at least seven or eight Emperors in it. Reman's had at least four. Tiber's had 21! Imagine how quickly those family trees branch out. If each generation only had two or three kids, and each of those kids had two or three, there may very well be millions of people related to Alessia, Reman or Talos by blood running around. If being Dragonborn was a simple matter of heredity, then the Greybeards would be summoning people left and right.

It simply isn't. It never was. Akatosh bestows it upon whomever he deems worthy. The illusion of being passed from parent to offspring works only if you don't examine things too closely - Tiber Septim's bloodline actually ended after Pelagius I. It didn't even last three generations. Kintrya was his niece - Agnorith Septim's daughter. Either that means Agnorith was also Dragonborn, or that Akatosh simply allowed Kintrya to become one upon receiving the Amulet.

It gets even more convoluted the more you read "Brief History of the Empire". Pelagius III became insane and his wife Katariah was put on the throne. She was a Dark Elf woman, from Morrowind. She didn't have a single drop of Septim blood in her veins, but she was anointed as Dragonborn and allowed to wear the Amulet. Why? If it was a matter of blood only, that could never happen.

And then it breaks again. Katariah's heir wasn't from the Septim bloodline either. He was from the union of Katariah and a monarch from High Rock. Even if this person was from a related bloodline, he was not a descendent of Tiber Septim or his brother in any way. And yet the son could wear the Amulet, and his bloodline continued all the way down to Martin.

Finally, most damning of all, there's no evidence the Reman dynasty had any legitimate blood connection to the Alessian Dynasty outside of myth, and even less that Talos did. In fact, there's nothing solid to indicate any of the Alessian Emperors or Empresses were related. What very little lore we have on them seems to indicate the Elder Council chose them. Akatosh apparently anointed and honored their nominee not because of blood but because of legitimacy.

[Hejerrick]

He can't simply return - he has no form now, until the final ending of the world.

Do you know this?
What happened in Skyrim was supposed to be the end of the world, not the enslavement of all mortals. At least that's the idea I got from what happened and what I was told during the main quest.

Our character served to... put him back in his rightful place as world eater

I guess that was the original purpose of Miraak as well.

I doubt he's become dutiful after this whole ordeal he just experienced, what's to stop him from dominating rather than apocalypse...ing when the world ends for good?

There's limited information regarding the meaning of Alduin's defeat, so I guess all one can really do is speculate on the significance of destroying the physical form of the end of the world..

[Br3admax]

Paarthurnax said Alduin forsoke his role. That means he wanted to rule.

[Hejerrick]

And yet the son could wear the Amulet, and his bloodline continued all the way down to Martin.

And all his step siblings it would seem... Well that's just confusing

[Br3admax]

You mean half siblings, and how would you know? Uriel never took the Amulet of Kings off.

[Hejerrick]

Paarthurnax said Alduin forsoke his role. That means he wanted to rule.

Then what's to stop him from doing so again, whenever he has to reappear?

[Hejerrick]

You mean half siblings, and how would you know? Uriel never took the Amulet of Kings off.

I guess I wouldn't. The mechanics of the dragonblood were vague... Odd in TE VI

[CBR JGWRR]

He can't simply return - he has no form now, until the final ending of the world.

Do you know this?
What happened in Skyrim was supposed to be the end of the world, not the enslavement of all mortals. At least that's the idea I got from what happened and what I was told during the main quest.

He tried to enslave mortals the last time he was present, (some time during the late mythic era) and given he didn't set about eating the world like he was meant to, but instead started rebuilding the dragons, and presumably, then onto the dragon cult, it is fairly safe to say he still wanted dominion over mortals.

Our character served to... put him back in his rightful place as world eater

I guess that was the original purpose of Miraak as well.

I doubt he's become dutiful after this whole ordeal he just experienced, what's to stop him from dominating rather than apocalypse...ing when the world ends for good?

There's limited information regarding the meaning of Alduin's defeat, so I guess all one can really do is speculate on the significance of destroying the physical form of the end of the world..

All we know regarding Miraak and Alduin is that Miraak had the chance to defeat Alduin, and chose not to.

Alduin's death forced him back to Akatosh, where he awaits the end. Our Dovahkiin doesn't absorb Alduin's soul for at least 1 very good reason - his original purpose still stands. Next time the bell tolls for Nirn, he will actually do as he's supposed to, because he won't have any other option.

If our Dovahkiin is still present, then they will just be a sweet tasting snack of final victory for him.


Format edit.

[Hejerrick]

He can't simply return - he has no form now, until the final ending of the world.

Do you know this?
What happened in Skyrim was supposed to be the end of the world, not the enslavement of all mortals. At least that's the idea I got from what happened and what I was told during the main quest.

He tried to enslave mortals the last time he was present, (some time during the late mythic era) and given he didn't set about eating the world like he was meant to, but instead started rebuilding the dragons, and presumably, then onto the dragon cult, it is fairly safe to say he still wanted dominion over mortals.

Our character served to... put him back in his rightful place as world eater

I guess that was the original purpose of Miraak as well.

I doubt he's become dutiful after this whole ordeal he just experienced, what's to stop him from dominating rather than apocalypse...ing when the world ends for good?

There's limited information regarding the meaning of Alduin's defeat, so I guess all one can really do is speculate on the significance of destroying the physical form of the end of the world..

All we know regarding Miraak and Alduin is that Miraak had the chance to defeat Alduin, and chose not to.

Alduin's death forced him back to Akatosh, where he awaits the end. Our Dovahkiin doesn't absorb Alduin's soul for at least 1 very good reason - his original purpose still stands. Next time the bell tolls for Nirn, he will actually do as he's supposed to, because he won't have any other option.

If our Dovahkiin is still present, then they will just be a sweet tasting snack of final victory for him.


Format edit.

Well whaddya know. That answer is just what I needed, I'm definitely satisfied by it, thanks

[Br3admax]

It's also important to state Mirrak could tell we defeated Alduin, and only us. The Last Dragonborn is special, even amoung his own kind. Mirrak knew we where the last. And don't say Mora told him, otherwise he wouldn't be surprised when we arrived.

[Hejerrick]

It's also important to state Mirrak could tell we defeated Alduin, and only us. The Last Dragonborn is special, even amoung his own kind. Mirrak knew we where the last. And don't say Mora told him, otherwise he wouldn't be surprised when we arrived.

But didn't he also send assassins to kill us? That implies knowledge of our existence before we arrived, how could he be surprised?