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WHich is the best class, birthsign, and race?????????

Quit posting different topics for the same damn question, use the reply button or go away from this forum please.

Salem

That is not very nice, Salem. Instead of snapping you could just answer the question. Maybe you don't HAVE an answer?
I am very succesfull with the combination Race: Breton, and Birthsign Mage. Both Breton and Mage gives you fortfy magicka 50. Makes 100. I never lack magicka; need no fountains or anything. If fills up all by itself. Being a Breton also gives you: resist magic 50. An important ability!
The class you choose is up to you, really. What are you good at, how do you want to play the game? I chose Adventurer.
All together: I do not regret these choices; I am doing very well!

If you're too lazy to seek yourself, here you are.
http://www.uesp.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=521
Of course Salem Verano doesn't have the answer because the answer doesn't exist.

Resist Magic 50 prevents stacking spells quite efficiently. The most powerful ultimate "tainted" spells achievable by stacking weakness (fortify everything for max duration) are halved in power. BIG drawback. Plus you aren't all that great against enemies immune to magic, are you?

There is no "best" race or birthsign. All depends on your gameplay style.

Vook,

Of course you are right about: there is no best race of sign. I know that. But that is no reason for NOT answering a question and make nasty remarks. Maybe it is a brandnew player, who did not play Morrowind first. You know as well as I do that choosing a character is rather complicated if you don't know the implications of your choises.
As far as your remark, that I will not be that great with enemies immune to magic is concerned: for starters it is nice to be able heal yourself when you get into trouble in a deep cave or fort or whatever. It is no longer possible to just recall. For the killing part: I am quite good with a silver longsword, thank you...

Guest (for now) wrote:That is not very nice, Salem. Instead of snapping you could just answer the question. Maybe you don't HAVE an answer?

He created 3 different topics on the same day concerning the same question, so I did have the right to say that, he should read his other topics first !

And there is no guaranteed best race/class/birthsign, all depends how your playingstyle is, the best is different for everyone.

I think that regardless of class, the Thief is the most powerful birthsign. Quite apart from the fact that you get 30 extra stat points (in things you are less likely to want to train if you're not a Thief - meaning you're at least not too weak in them to start with) but the +10 Luck is incredibly useful.

You don't get modifiers for Luck - you can only raise it +1 each level - which means that you would be sacrificing up to FIFTY other stat points (assuming +5 modifiers every time) to get +10 Luck the regular (levelling) way.

1 luck point (above 50) is 0.4 skill points of each skill. But skills being capped at 100, luck gradually becomes useless in the game. 100 luck means +20 to all skills, meaning at 80 skill you have the mastery (sans perk). But likely before you master Luck, you'll have 100 in most of skills, meaning increasing luck only helps in these few others not maxed out yet. But +10 luck on startup essentially means +4 to all skills... not bad...

The other two you get with thief are quite weak though. Neither speed nor agility will save you if you're cornered by 3 ogres. You need endurance for that... They make game easier where it's quite easy already, but won't help in the harderst parts much.

I thought Luck had some other random effects, and was used to calculate things like random loot or chances of enemies having a decent magic item?

My experience in the game is that any skill below fifty is a problem, regardless of your class. Trying to start out with as few skills below 50 as possible is helpful. As a warrior Nord, the Thief birthsign really helped me in this regard.

Skills or attributes? Don't mix these. You start with only few skills at 25-30, the rest are 5-10 And starting with low "major" skills means more levels to gain Well, I don't think I'd really miss high Personality

Wauw.
See?
It is helpfull to discuss the (very) various possibilities and get the most out of your starting position. How your character develops after that is another question. The question for a beginner is (when you don't know how to play the game, how should you know??): what is the best starting position for whatever game I choose to play?? I can relate to someone who really seriously wants to play the game to the fullest and does not know where to start, and asks 3 times. Maybe he just does not know how forems work.
Vook? I would like your comment on this! You adressed him as lazy. I am Dutch, my Motherlanguage is not English, and the discription of How to Choose on the walkthrough is rather complicated. I did not read it all, and I am fairly good at reading English. Not everyone understands the explanation. Don't call somebody lazy. The descripion is complicated.

Guest (for now) wrote:The question for a beginner is (when you don't know how to play the game, how should you know??): what is the best starting position for whatever game I choose to play??

Hehehe, that's one horrible question easily showing a beginner and most of beginners slipped on it. The problem is you assume "start strong, and keep getting stronger". The keyword here is "levelled enemies". You start strong and slowly get stronger, but in the meantime enemies overpower you rapidly. About level 10-15 you'll be sweating for every second of your life.

So the answer to the above question:
Pick an orc warrior/barbarian, warrior sign (and you may even live through the 10-15, though with problems), or a breton or high elf mage, mage or atronach sign (and die painfully soon) and the beginning will be easy, smooth, fast and pleasant.

The trick to stay alive in Oblivion is to start quite weak and grow your strength very carefully and slowly, gaining levels only when you're prepared. If you reach level 10, you should have most of parameters of a "careless" level 20 character (except "careless level 20 characters" don't exist. They all died around lvl 14.) Gaining levels fast and carelessly is a straight road to grave. Search the wiki for "efficient levelling", and don't beat yourself to it, but keep the advices in mind. It's better to get +5/+5/+5 and waste two other +5's you built than to gain +2/+2/+2.

Level 12 and sweeping the floor with minotaurs. Gotta finally gain the level 'cause I have +5 overdue in 4 or so params

One word: subjective.

Vook wrote:The problem is you assume "start strong, and keep getting stronger". The keyword here is "levelled enemies". You start strong and slowly get stronger, but in the meantime enemies overpower you rapidly. The trick to stay alive in Oblivion is to start quite weak and grow your strength very carefully and slowly, gaining levels only when you're prepared. Gaining levels fast and carelessly is a straight road to grave. It's better to get +5/+5/+5 and waste two other +5's you built than to gain +2/+2/+2.

Why, Vook? I do not understand this. If a beginner starts as strong as possible (as a beginner you do not know what your way of playing is going to be), I assumed a beginner is as strong as their starting position says he is. That means: if you stumble in a situation you are not ready for you are not instantly dead before even realising the danger. That is an advantage, is it not? And why is it better to level up 2-2-2 and waste a 3 because you are already strong enough, than gain 5-5-5 and waste two more fives? And are you saying that just enemies (leveled enemies) appear that you are ready to cope with according to level?

If a beginner starts as strong as possible (as a beginner you do not know what your way of playing is going to be), I assumed a beginner is as strong as their starting position says he is.

There are some factors to strength of beginner character:
- Race (fairly ballanced, there are some bad choices but most are good, so generally not much field of freedom)
- Birthsign (Some are worse but there are some that are really good choices and not much questions about it)
- Favoured class (stealth, magic, battle - stealth is slightly handicapped, but no biggie)
- Favoured Attribute (again, if you don't pick personality, you've made a good choice)

Until now, no biggie, pick one that matches your intended gameplay style, it's hard to make a "bad choice".

And finally the one painful, most important of all: Major skills. And here the problems begin. You gain +20 (at least 25 total) to all of them at startup. It should be pretty clear how much a difference skill of blade = 5 vs blade = 25 does in combat. At 5 destruction you can barely harm a rat, at 25 you can blpw goblins to pieces. At 5 Marksman it may take 60 arrows to kill a bandit, at 25 maybe 8. As you see, the choice gives you huge advantage on startup. So you'd feel "I want to play a mage, I'll pick Destruction, Restoration and Conjuration as my major skills."
And sure, right away you can summon skeletons, goblins die from two-three flare spells, you can heal yourself in battle, cool! The tutorial is a breeze, first few ruins too.

But then comes the caveat, the trap. Rising a major skill by 10 you gain a level. Using a skill frequently you rise it fast.
So you keep adventuring, fight and get Destruction to long-desired 50 when you can cast some quite devastating spells. Restoration to 50, where you can do some absorb, fortify and other kickass spells. Conjuration to 45, just by frequent use. It doesn't take all that long, you're just nearing the end of the mages guild recommendation quests. You gained 70 points in your major skills. You were rising Int and Wil by 2-3 points each level, because you had a mix of magical powers as majors, half for int, half for wil, meaning you never got pure 10 in skills related to one attribute before gaining a level. Your magicka pool is bigger by 50, you have some good offensive and defensive spells and you are level 8.

Then you meet a Will-o-the-wisp. They should start appearing about then.
Forget escaping, they are really fast. So you fight. You cast your strongest spell and are down half the magicka. Wotw casts absorb health and you're at half of your health while it is almost fully restored. You gulp up a Restore Magicka potion and prepare to attack again, when Wotw absorbs your magicka and you can't cast. You gulp up another restore magicka and a restore health which just saves your life as another absorb health would just kill you and now leaves you with 30% health. You cast your spell and are where you were in the beginning, except with nearly null health. Then another absorb health and you die.

If you can't deliver a punch that kills the Wotw in 5-6 seconds, you won't kill it, it will keep healing itself faster than you can hurt it, and at your cost. You need one or more of the following:
- An expert level (75+) Destruction spell to blow Wotw in one shot
- MANY good (50+ skill, Apprentice level equipment) restore health, magicka potions plus some Journeyman destruction spells (self-made, the ones from shopkeepers suck.)
- A good enchanted sword that does some major elemental damage at high speed, and good blade skill to use it
- Set of spells/skills/items giving you 80+ Magic reflect/absorb/resist.

In the above scenario, before you get most of these you will be level 15 and Will'o'the'wisps will be the least of your concern, faded wraiths and first liches roaming the ruins and obliterating you before you can react, despite all of the features above. You'd need even more to kill them, but that means gaining even more levels and by the time you by some miracle get enough skills and stats to kill liches, even stronger enemies will roam the world. That's a dead-end.

Of course you can choose the easy way then. Just pull the slider. Boo.

But if you don't want to use such low approach, simply choose your major skills wisely. Get that Destruction, Restoration and Conjuration in minors. You will start with 5 points in each, not 25. Still, use them, train them... By the time you reach level 8 you'll have over 75 points of each, you'll be able to blow away a Wotw with a single spell, you'll have enough magicka to cast that spell twice in a row and enough Alchemy skill that you'll carry 60 Restore Magicka potions you can drink 3 at a time to refill your magicka bar in 4 seconds and keep doing it for another 30. It will take you two-three times as long as in previous case to reach level 15, but when you reach it and face the first wraith, you make a short story of it.

and why is it better to level up 2-2-2 and waste a 3 because you are already strong enough, than gain 5-5-5 and waste two more fives?

Just the opposite.
If you gain 5-5-5, you grow much stronger. If you waste another two 4's in the meantime, you still gained skills associated with them. You are much stronger. Enemies just some. If you gain 2-2-2, enemies got stronger just the same, but you grew just minimally stronger and right now you're worse off than a level before.

And are you saying that just enemies (leveled enemies) appear that you are ready to cope with according to level?

Levelled enemies appear according to your level no matter if you're ready to cope with them or not. Level by itself is worthless, or even worse. it's a number that gives you nothing but stronger enemies. (well, it gives better random loot and some more stuff, but this is by far outweighted by stronger enemies.) While gaining a level you gain more or less attributes. They are good. Make it so that you gain more of them, not less. And all the time you gain skills. They are essential, greatest of all. Now the problem is that gaining major skills you gain levels. You can't gain majors without gaining levels. So choose majors so that you don't gain levels when you don't want to.
Treat level-up as "pull difficulty up" operation. If you feel ready to handle the next level, level up. Got some good equipment, mastered some skill? Level up, you can handle the new challenges and get a chance to gain better equipment. But if you struggle to survive on current level, while increasing skills may be good way to help, gaining a level will only make things worse. You raise blade skill from 30 to 40 and suddenly face a goblin that has 400 health instead of 50. Yay, what a bargain.

whoa what a rant.

Int: Personality is not so bad because is u got 2x plus 5 in personality un can go in jail 5 time and you will have a +10 in strenght and agility! if you are luchy your skill decrease will be someting costless to train back and you become realy powerfull!

DONT do major crime,steal a plate or something !

I agree with the Will-o-the-wisp thing. My Brigitte has just started running into them and they are a pain. Thanks to Debaser (drain willpower & endurance) she manages to survive, but it's a hard fight. Need to go to Chorrol to get Chillrend. That's a good blade.

Vook,
Thank you so much for your explanation! For god's sake, HOW did you figure out all this? Amazing! I understand much better now. This should be a topic instead of an answer on another topic. Fresh beginners can learn from this!
As far as my own choices are concerned: I am still satisfied. I made good choices for myself!

Mostly everything was the same in Morrowind, and I'm quite a seasoned Morrowind player. Only quantitative changes happened.

In Morrowind about 40% of content was random/levelled, in Oblivion over 99%. Same with enemies, visiting a daedric ruin you were guaranteed to find a daedra even on level 1, and if after a truly heroic battle you managed to kill a dremora (as a level 1 character) you could find for example a Daedric Shield, worth some 35000 gold. Worth just as much as 35000 gold in Oblivion.
Wow? Wow.
You could rob valuts of Great Houses and come out with almost full set of Glass armour. On low levels. And if you were level 30, you'd pwn all enemies in the game. Kill dremoras with a few swings of sword. Morrowind was not just easier, it was getting easier as you were gaining levels. There were lots and lots of quests and most of them was quite fun as a story, roleplay - with the battle part being just not really significant background. Find a beautiful slave to become a wife for a tribe's chief, because he wishes for a noble house wife and has no chance, but can't tell the difference. Bring an ancient cup from a Dunmer Fortress. (you penetrate some 7 levels of the fortress, deep far tunnels, finding a secret route to a highly restricted area, fighting awesome enemies, but find no cup. Defeated you return to the surface and find the cup in one of small houses huddled against the side of the fortress, guarded by some pathetic loser Such things. Fighting was highly secondary. Adventuring was the keyword.
Oblivion is very hack&slash. It's much smaller/simpler, most things are random, so it doesn't matter which fort you loot, you have just the same chance to find the Necklace of the Swords in a chest under a bridge and at the end of Nelantala, and you have NO chance to find it below level 20 or so. So instead of adventuring, you nerf - gain levels. Quests are secondary, levels are the key to good loot - but they also give stronger enemies so no real profit in gaining levels. Result? No purpose in game. Gameplay much worse than Morrowind.

It seems besides the Main Quest (which is only one and short) only Umbacano's quests remind the advanced questline from Morrowind. Mages guild is mostly go, fetch, go, kill. Best done by a fighter character. Fighters Guild quests are similar, but I found magic works better than sword in solving them. Thieves Guild is at times fun, but no unexpected twists, no big WTF, some climate but usually very straightforward, "honest" route. I didn't do DB yet, may be nice, no idea. Besides that, most quests are short, simple and without consequences. And everything else is random. No exploring - varla stones and shadowbanish wine are the only possible "surprises" rewarding you for exploring. (and of course aforementioned Umbacano...) Oh, and Nirnroot, but that's just too easy and too unrewarding, the potion isn't all that great and Nirnroot isn't any rare plant, it's about as common weed as flax!

Honestly Vook cant tell you i cant tell you no one on this forum can tell you. When i got Oblivion i started a new file every other day learning from mistakes and thinking about how to make things better. I have yet to make a decent magic file right now i use my Nord Ranger and he kicks ass! Still youll never be saticfied with your file if someone tells you how to make it, do it for your self dude. For your own good...