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Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:15 pm
by Daemos Avetorii
I often negatively compare Skyrim's Magic system to Oblivion's. Oblivion had far superior Magical abilities. Despite it taking place 200 years earlier.
What technological inventions can be said to have been developed in Skyrim the last 200 years? Could it be assumed that Cyrodiil back then had smiths, mills, agriculture, etc?
Use of portable Alchemy Devices was lost and replaced by Tables. Enchanting can be done near anywhere and require no absolute membership in any Magical schools.

I often feel like leaving Skyrim for a bit and play Oblivion. Game may be older and less graphically impressive, but still enjoyable.

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:47 pm
by Crawldragon
Aside from the fact that magic is not nearly as prolific in Skyrim as it is in most of the rest of Tamriel (this is officially recognized in lore and by the NPCs' attitude toward wizards) these changes made to the way magic works in TES V are mostly down to gameplay, not lore. The game has been significantly altered from Oblivion so that it plays differently, and whether you or I like it or not it was these changes that made the game so accessible that it achieved mainstream appeal. You have to keep in mind that just about every action your character takes is an abstracted representation of much more complex maneuvers, such as using a sword or casting a spell. Brewing potions and enchanting weapons is not (and should not be) a simple task that one can do while sitting in the dirt.

I mean, if you prefer Oblivion over Skyrim and want to play that instead I'm not going to stop you or try to persuade you to do otherwise :wat: But do keep in mind that there is a subsection of the modding community devoted to making Skyrim play more like the earlier games in the series, and if you looked I'm sure you could find someone who's made alchemical apparati and enchanting tools to be carried by the player. Or you might find a mod that makes you enjoy the gameplay more than either. It's entirely up to you. I mean, I still play Daggerfall and (sometimes) Arena.

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:36 am
by Imbalance
Psh, since Morrowind, nobody remembers how to fly.

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:21 am
by BetaB17
^ Remember? Yes. Legal or commonly used? No. Is the reasoning why utter [&@%!]? Most certainly

But ya, excluding much of the game mechanics, plenty of which Crawl covered in his post >_> I think your overlooking what improvements have been had(or lack there of/regression) over ingame mechanic differences between two games

But first manner of business. 200 years? Is anybody really all too surprised over the lack of progression? For the entirety of the series, very little if any progress has been made on the technological scale. Even magical achievements seem stunted, perpetually slowed to a crawl by lack of discovery, lost or established knowledge by far too ancient societies, and incomplete research by those too selfish to share or by the very topic still largely unknown. In both regards.. From the 1st Era to the 4th, everybody still pales in comparison to the Dwemer <_< So 200 years of stunted progress just seems like another drop in the bucket

No, the things that do seem to progress in Tamriel seem to be more so policies and the refinement of pre-established tools or skills. I mean, it comes to no surprise why even in a society stunted technologically wise can make revolutionary(or regressive) achievements via policies or law. Per the skills n tools, well, just about everybody has been doing that since day one. Maybe not alot changes, maybe it's slow even between the generations, but the point is people are learning how to make the best of what they got, it's only natural

Also, to note, magic and greater knowledge is much harder to gauge in their progression. Much of it really is just random folks arguing or bickering over the smallest of details, hypothetical or flawed theories, and attempts for the 'one true answer' to a question they don't even fully know yet. It's very much akin to early philosophy, and much in the same way, little is ever done. Is it not ironic that policy changes(such as guild/Imperial changes or the classification of the various schools or spells) have had more influence on the field of magic than actual advancements in magic

From what I've seen between both installments, there are some rather blaring changes. One such, and likely the most depressing, is the regression and public distain for magic, oblivion, and fields of thoughts(like religion). This is no more true than with the Vigils of Stendarr and similar extremists.. Halting or even destroying progress out of fear or misunderstandings. Not to say they are completely wrong in this, but the manner they go about witch-hunting or the disbandment of the Mage's Guild only serves as a detriment

2nd thing to mention? While portable alchemy sets seem less common, mind ya the alchemy stations seem far more refined and specialized for the desired task >_> It literally has everything you may need and then same, and what more, it's utility and accessibility seems to have worked! Maybe it might just be a culture shift or difference, but the people in skyrim seem far more knowledgeable to alchemy on even the most basic levels and actively dabble in it. Maybe the more experienced or professional of folks may have their own personal set or many.. But even the appeal of a custom work station is not to scoff at(see Oblivion's Wizard Tower)

Next up, enchanting. Before, it took either a skilled enchanter(paid or not), a bit of risk or coin, and on top of all that the necessary aspects and soul. Tell me, how easy it for someone to enchant a rusty dagger with a cheap soul gem via some dabbling with the station? Something anybody may have access to if properly(and publicly) supplied? It's far less a privileged commodity. Maybe not as accessible as the services provided by the Mages Guild, but certainly cheaper on top of being far less rare than some personal altar of some sort(unless your Neloth and just has to have a staff infuser, gosh!)

These are obviously just a few details, but the point is I'm not going to bother nip picking over ever little detail or lack there of and separate what is and what is not 'just a game mechanic'. If we really wanted to do that, ESO is another thing to consider :wink:

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:55 am
by Daemos Avetorii
Thanks for the comments everyone. :)

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:41 pm
by noobishlord
I think another reason magic seems to have stagnated, and perhaps even regressed, is that the Mage's Guild has been disbanded. While it was a mess with internal politics and what-not, it was still a public source of knowledge and magic. It was magic for the people. Who's our main source of magical knowledge in Skyrim? The College of Winterhold, which is much more insular, and practically closed off from the masses.

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:48 pm
by legoless
Compared to magic in ESO, Skyrim is absolutely desolate. Even the white/black soul thing is a regression compared to earlier days. I think there were likely a negative amount of technologies and magics developed in the Fourth Era.

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:41 am
by BunBun299
It should be noted that the current real world rate at which technology progresses is a historical anomaly. Things is parts of the Roman Empire at its height were actually a bit more advanced than Europe was at large for over a millennium after it fell. Technology being lost is to be expected when things go wrong for the society that supports it.

Things have been different recently because we finally developed communications technologies that allows newly developed technology to spread very rapidly, and be preserved even if some disaster strikes where it was developed.

Re: Technologies and Magics developed the last 200 years.

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:01 am
by AKB
Technological degradation is a running theme in Elder Scrolls. What was possible before is no longer even possible to understand. For goodness sake, the Empire used to have a space program. Of course, Tamrielic society has also survived numerous wars and apocalypses, so it is just as amazing that so much has survived. If magic and technology seem less prevalent now, it's likely that was intentional.