UESP Forums

I've made a few short lasting mage characters in the game, usually Altmer or Breton. I am beginning to wonder how relevant or necessary some magics are. Especially when compared to the magic of oblivion.

My current Altmer has 75 Illusion, but what is the point of casting fear/calm on a foe, if I can use the same magic cost to destroy them with fire/ice/shock?
(-edit I am basically a misguided thalmor fanboy so playing altmer and messing with "non elves" is kinda tempting XD )
Invisibility is useless, I still get detected, even with muffle active. I guess Sneak is just better.
Also that level of illusion power tempts me to corrupt my self control and spam fury on guards/town npcs and lose sense of what I am doing. Adrianne from whiterun was ... killed by a fury'd guard, oops.

Restoration is all good and well but when the going gets tough and my mana is low, I spam potions of mana/health instead. I rarely cast restoration at all, and rarely use any wards.
Conjuration is actually useful to some end, especially thralls of all kinds, as they can be cast before a battle and maintained forever, and they distract npc's in fights.
Alteration.. So you could get a ton of perks to get the 80& damage resistance spell, you still need to cast it before it is active, and once again, why not expend the same mana to cast destruction, if killing the enemy is the idea. With Light/Heavy Armor, you always have some passive armor, depending on skill. I guess the only good thing of Alteration here is that it is one skill that basically bypasses either light/heavy armor and smithing needs/tempering, but it is soooo slow to level. Also, unlike either smithing or light/heavy armor which each does one thing, Alteration does other things like light spells, life detect etc. Maybe I've underestimated Alteration? But imo, illusion, restoration are still like.. eh.. Not sure. Opinions?

Daemos Avetorii wrote:and once again, why not expend the same mana to cast destruction, if killing the enemy is the idea.

I think this attitude may be your mistake. You seem to be under the impression that a wizard should be able to just burninate things from the word go, and that's not how things work in RPGs. Destruction is certainly the more immediate and blunt of the colleges of magic, but magic in general is a highly strategic game, as well it should be. It's not necessarily about how useful spells are in combat; you need to be constantly thinking about how to optimize your character so that they can cast the best spells with the least mana while having more mana on-hand. There's a reason why potions of health and magicka are scattered throughout the landscape in these games.

It is true that it's easier to play as a half-spellcaster in the sense that they still have some mundane combat skills and use regular armor like normal infantry, but there is a lore reason why this is in Skyrim: It's that you're in a harsh land with a lot of warriors and the best schools of magic have all buggered off with the elves. If you want to play a squishy traditional kind of wizard beclad in nothing besides his robe, you have a lot of mettle, but roadbumps are to be expected. It's a long way to the top if you want to rock it with the wizards.

As for your individual cases, I don't play a wizard generally in RPGs, but here are my thoughts:

• Casting fear and calm is useful in situations where you're up against a monster you don't want to have to fight in normal combat. This is useful for low-level melee characters especially but is also relevant to wizards who haven't advanced enough in destruction to really call down the thunder.
• Invisibility isn't a crutch for characters who are crap at stealth. It's an escape spell. Use it, get yourself unstuck, and get out. If your character is just outright screwed, it might be because you think invisibility is a crutch for people who are bad at stealth.
• Alteration is an extremely useful school of magic. If you think it's limited only to buffs, then I don't think you've been doing your research.
• The school of restoration is the one school that's most closely balanced for melee characters. If you happen to have a lot of healing potions on you then maybe you don't find it so useful, but wards and healing spells are super handy for low-level characters with no other defensive options. I would also like to note that Turn Undead and Rune are also on the Restoration spell list, as are spells that will allow you to cure diseases without sacrificing money at a temple. If you don't think that's useful, I can only tell you to git gud.

Maybe I've been spoiled by Oblivion. I just wish Alteration could be leveled faster.

Daemos Avetorii wrote:I've made a few short lasting mage characters in the game, usually Altmer or Breton. I am beginning to wonder how relevant or necessary some magics are. Especially when compared to the magic of oblivion.

My current Altmer has 75 Illusion, but what is the point of casting fear/calm on a foe, if I can use the same magic cost to destroy them with fire/ice/shock?
(-edit I am basically a misguided thalmor fanboy so playing altmer and messing with "non elves" is kinda tempting XD )
Invisibility is useless, I still get detected, even with muffle active. I guess Sneak is just better.
Also that level of illusion power tempts me to corrupt my self control and spam fury on guards/town npcs and lose sense of what I am doing. Adrianne from whiterun was ... killed by a fury'd guard, oops.

But imo, illusion, restoration are still like.. eh.. Not sure. Opinions?

Nightmage is my M.O., so I have a really soft spot for Illusion.

Fury is just the perfect spell; if you cast it on the strongest enemy in the group, you get either A) He dies under a heap of weaker enemies, or B) He wipes the floor with every other enemy in the vicinity.

Calm is for those times when you screw up (who hasn't accidentally Thu'umed an essential NPC?), it means, "Hey, I only accidentally lodged my axe in your shoulder, let's get back to dungeoneering."

Invisibility is the bread and butter. Sneak past or slit throat? Just him there, slit his throat; he's with other people, I'll sneak past and find a good position to Fury him.

Fear is the best compliment to Destruction in the entire game. All your enemies with their backs turned huddled into a single area --> Burn baby burn.

What does M.O stand for? Also, how relevant or necessary would Vampirism be for augmenting the effect of Illusion?
I deleted my character since. Felt like I made some mistakes I could not undo, and kind of lost track of proper self-control.
But for the next mage, maybe there is something to learn.

Daemos Avetorii wrote:What does M.O stand for?

Modus operandi, or Mode/Method of Operation, an abbreviation for standard plan of attack or go-to strategy.

Daemos Avetorii wrote:What does M.O stand for? Also, how relevant or necessary would Vampirism be for augmenting the effect of Illusion?
I deleted my character since. Felt like I made some mistakes I could not undo, and kind of lost track of proper self-control.

Modus operandi, a Latin term meaning "mode of operation". (Ninja'd) In other terms, I've played a lot of Nightmages.

How necessary is Vampirism? Not very. How relevant? Very, very, relevant. They just work so well together: you get not only an Illusion bonus, but also a stealth bonus which compliments the muffle and invisibility spells.

Daemos Avetorii wrote:But for the next mage, maybe there is something to learn.

Always man. I had put countless hours into Skyrim and was not impressed with Restoration, but then I built a sun-throwing, undead-killing machine and never looked back.

Would you be willing to say a little more about that sun throwing undead killing machine? If not here, you can pm me. I'm curious to learn of your experiences. ^^

Sure, pretty basic build. (You'll need the Dawnguard DLC, if you don't have it)

Dawnguard Heavy Armour (Or any armour you like really, I just like the aesthetic)
Dawnguard Rune Axe (Dawnbreaker's a good choice too)
Ring and Amulet of Mara (or other Restoration Boost/Discount)

From there just perk the entire Restoration skill tree and keep a 1-to-1 ration of health points to magicka points (or experiment with how much health/magicka you want until you find something you like).

Axe in one hand, Vampire's Bane/Sun Fire/Bane of the Undead in the other hand. Throw bright-white exploding orbs of death, hit things with axe, rinse, repeat. It has some trouble taking down normal enemies, but a Dragon Priest or a Draugr Deathlord is no problem.

Ooh, I misunderstood. Xd I thought you meant that as playing vampire and using necromage or something.

If you're having trouble leveling Alteration, use the Detect Life spell in a crowded market place. It'll level fast. Also, haven't actually tried this myself, but I heard if you enchant gear for 100% Fortify Alteration, then grab an object with Telekinesis, then fast travel to the other side of Skyrim, you'll gain quite a lot of XP.

Detect Life in the vincinity of Castle Dour in Solitude. You'll have the blacksmith, training guards and several of the marketplace dwellers in range who won't wander off.

Destruction really does draw one's attention, but in a way, that's fair. You need to be harming something with it in order to train it up, so spending any magicka on something else is magicka you're not spending on getting Destruction up.

But really, the other schools are just as useful and interesting, especially if you're not playing your standard build. I'm currently going through Skyrim with this Healer style build I found on Tamriel Vault, and its only source of offense is braining something with a mace, while its only source of defense is the Flesh spells. And Illusion starts to shine with its Courage spells, as I have a companion around me, one I don't have to worry about catching in an AoE blast or smacking in the back of the head with a Firebolt.

Restoration, of course, is keeping us both into fighting strength, along with being the bane of mages and dragons. Though at least I don't have to worry about my companion dying, now that I've gotten Mjoll.

It's proving to be a really fun build, using all the less... well... destructive magics.

Daemos Avetorii wrote:Invisibility is useless, I still get detected, even with muffle active. I guess Sneak is just better.

Daemos Avetorii wrote:Especially when compared to the magic of oblivion.

thaaaaaaank you