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What are the technological advancements that have occurred since the disappearance of the Dwemer, if any at all? I include in this, developments in magic to counteract any arguments of "but magic nullifies technology" cause that is simply not true. While magic would render many technological inventions obsolete, magic and technology are not mutually exclusive as evident by the Dwemer and what remains of their ruins.

More specifically, what technological and magical advancements have been seen throughout the games of Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim? During those 207 years, despite many disasters i.e. Oblivion Crisis and the Read Year, surely advancements have been made in technology and magical studies?

On a side note: Why in Oblivion has no one figured out Dwemer technology in the 3,750 years since their disappearance?!?

Also, why does it feel like you could be placed into Tamriel anywhere in anytime from the Merethic Era to the Fourth Era and it still seem like the same time period? I know TES is a fantasy game series, however I feel like Tamriel has been stuck in it's "Medieval Era" for most of it's existence.

My entire argument and my questions may be rendered obsolete by the simple fact that we only get a look at different provinces, with different societies, at different times. However I believe the discussion born from this will prove to be interesting. Especially if you consider this: Is the world of The Elder Scrolls stagnating?

One might go so far as to say it's regressing. Banning personal flight is the dumbest thing the Empire ever did, and that's saying a lot.

More like "side advancements". Or "re-inventing". Nothing surpasses Dwemer in TES hi-tech still.

Some reverse engineering on Dwemer tech has been done, like in TES III there are centurions adapted for use by, for example, Telvanni mages who have held interest in Dwemer stuff, schemicals, "Secrets of Animunculi". Remember quests you've made helping Edwinna - she's probably found something out. Baladas also. There's probably been more, and some might have made it to general everyday use. Remember that Sunder and Keening are hi-tech tools for incredibly precise manipulation with divine energies - and some of their use has also been found out. But I guess it's so complex, and there's so much tech in Dwemer life that it takes a lot more than less than 100 researchers at once, even if you have 3750 years. Note also that this research is dangerous, and many of the researchers die and their racked up knowledge is likely to be lost.

Summary: The world of TES is devolving in terms of both magic and tech (compare the diversity of magic used in first games in the series to Skyrim's). The society is far less stable and centralized than in the days of the old Empire. There are cataclysms of large scale all over the place.

Might be a good plot idea for Thalmor to have hidden research in Dwemer tech so they can try to install elven superiority everywhere. Much like Third Reich occult research, or V-2.

Most folks in Tamriel believe the Dwemer destroyed themselves with their profane tools and methods of living, and consider such research and machines unnatural. When you're living in a world where there seems to be strong evidence that technological advancement leads to ruin rather than prosperity, and you couple that with the general distrust of magic and Elven things in Human nations in the 4th Era, it's not surprising people don't follow in their footsteps.

The military organisation of the empire seems to have changed between Oblivion and Skyrim. I'm not sure how the Imperial Army was displayed in Morrowind (it might well be more similar to the Roman Empire than that of Oblivion was), but the Imperial Legion definitely appears more organised in Skyrim than in Oblivion. Now, this might be due to the fact that Skyrim isn't the Imperial heartland (legions perhaps are forbidden from operating in Cyrodiil, like how they were forbidden from operating south of the River Po in the Roman Republic), and due to technical constraints (from a computer generating perspective), but I'd wager that it's evidence of the empire evolving to combat new threats. In Oblivion, the empire's defence seemed much more delegated, with the individual provinces and even cities having more defensive responsibilities than they do in Skyrim. I'm not going to comment on the weaponry aspect of things, but to me, military organisation seems to have become more advanced in between Oblivion and Skyrim.

POMC S117 wrote:The military organisation of the empire seems to have changed between Oblivion and Skyrim. I'm not sure how the Imperial Army was displayed in Morrowind (it might well be more similar to the Roman Empire than that of Oblivion was), but the Imperial Legion definitely appears more organised in Skyrim than in Oblivion. Now, this might be due to the fact that Skyrim isn't the Imperial heartland (legions perhaps are forbidden from operating in Cyrodiil, like how they were forbidden from operating south of the River Po in the Roman Republic), and due to technical constraints (from a computer generating perspective), but I'd wager that it's evidence of the empire evolving to combat new threats. In Oblivion, the empire's defence seemed much more delegated, with the individual provinces and even cities having more defensive responsibilities than they do in Skyrim. I'm not going to comment on the weaponry aspect of things, but to me, military organisation seems to have become more advanced in between Oblivion and Skyrim.

You're correct on your second assumption. The Legion operates very differently in the provinces than in Cyrodiil. Most of their resources are devoted to occupying the provinces, so it makes sense that we see so little of them in Oblivion. There's a reason all the forts are centuries-old ruins.

I've got to add, ESO gives a nice backstory to several of those forts, wherein previously we had none. Only one or two Forts in Oblivion have a proper back story. Notably, Sancre Tor and Fort Pale Pass figure into story lines and lore, as does Fort Sutch, but most of the other ones are just generic dungeons.

Definitely. I drafted a couple lore articles for places that appear in both Oblivion and ESO, and the info from Oblivion was consistently nothing more than "the ruins were inhabited by x".

legoless wrote:Definitely. I drafted a couple lore articles for places that appear in both Oblivion and ESO, and the info from Oblivion was consistently nothing more than "the ruins were inhabited by x".

Some of them were associated with quest items, like Shadowbanish Wine or the Crusader's Relics, at least.

Other examples of seemingly "lost technology", as nobody remembers how to make the Wine, and the Relics were said to be futuristic armor in the time they appeared, where the other humans only had leather armor. Shame that was never elaborated on more, the Pelinal thing, but he was weird/obscure by design, like the Dwemer themselves.

That wine was from a single batch though. The ability to make wine or potions of nighteye wasn't a lost art, but I think the significance of Shadowbanish was more historical or connoisseur than anything else.

Gunpowder would be the obvious invention to bring Tamriel forward technologically, but that tech would move the setting away from what seems to be the intended sword-and-sorcery theme. With alchemy being such a thing in Tamriel, the formula for it could reasonably have been discovered through experimentation, but there could be a (convenient) shortage of necessary minerals in the world to make it on a large scale.

The other big leap is an industrial revolution. One following Earth's history would need coal to power steam engines and electrical turbines, and it may be that Nirn isn't old enough to allow for the creation of fossil fuel deposits in the ground.

I suggested in another thread that the potency of alchemy and magic forms a major impediment to the advance of medical science. When the corner alchemist can cure disease and mend flesh by mixing common ingredients, why bother with medicine? Seems that the brightest minds would want to go into alchemy and Restoration and try to push boundaries there.

If there were major advancements, I'd expect them to come on the magical side. Maybe rediscovering the intricacies of Ayleid light/sun magic. We don't know if there are internal limits on the possible development of magical techs, but there is enough infrastructure around Tamriel that discoveries could continue to be made. Though on one of the likeliest places for discoveries to happen, Alinor, there may be pressure not to spread those discoveries outside the elven community. Who knows what the Psijiics(sp) would do.

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The most interesting questions you raise regard Dwemer technology. Why hasn't it been reverse engineered, etc.? From what I gathered through play, Dwemer technology is bound up with Dwemer society, in the sense that it depended on a couple of special institutions that are not present elsewhere in Tamriel: industrial-scale slavery (including for the purposes of soul extraction as a technomagickal fuel source?), and extensive, systematic research programs carried out across generations. The dwarves developed their advanced technologies using infrastructure, resources, and institutional focus over time that is not available to current Tamrielic societies.

To attempt a modern analogy, imagine a nuclear missile placed in Leonardo Da Vinci's studio during the 1400s. Leonardo was one of the most brilliant engineers/scientists of his time, but would he have been able to reverse engineer a nuclear missile and build one? It's too big of a leap without also understanding nuclear physics, general relativity, ballistics, chemistry, rocketry, etc. Each of those disciplines had years (sometimes centuries) of science and scores of geniuses involved in their development, with documented results passed down in an unbroken educational chain.

Dwemer tech strikes me more like pondering alien artifacts than as solving an engineering puzzle for Tamrielic scholars. There could be a "Rosetta Stone" moderns could find to jumpstart understanding or even reproduction of some dwarf tech, but there are problems even with that scenario. How well known is the Dwemer language? Even if it could be read, the primer could be fragmentary, missing key insights. It could be written in technical language that assumes familiarity with other parts of advanced Dwemer science, returning to the problem of "understanding the big picture" mentioned above.

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There's another possible thought here about the Thalmor and religiophilosophical ideas about "order" and how that could oppose them to the "levelling" i.e. democratizing competitive advantage technological advancement could give to Men. If someone wanted to pick up that thread.