UESP Forums

I was recently rereading the Commentaries while dealing with the topics of dreughs and Lyg on the wiki, and Mankar Camoran's words got me thinking about the Planemeld. We know that Mehrunes Dagon would have sundered the Towers and returned Tamriel to the chaos of the Dawn Era were it not for Akatosh and the Dragonborn (plural). What interests me is Camoran's comparison of the Septims to the "tyrannical dreugh-kings" that ruled over Lyg. If we accept that Lyg was a previous kalpa, then suddenly a great parallel emerges between Akatosh and his dragon-emperors and Molag Bal and his dreugh-kings.

Now, I'm not arguing that Bal should be compared to Akatosh. But given how strongly Akatosh wanted to defend Tamriel from Dagon during the Oblivion Crisis, one could assume that the Lord of Domination would've wanted to maintain his hold over Lyg as well before it was lost to him. Is the Planemeld his attempt to rewind the kalpa? Unlike Dagon's invasion, which was characterised by flames and wanton destruction, Bal's attempt involved binding Tamriel with chains and (re)claiming land and souls. Instead of toppling towers, Bal was trying to take them. The Planemeld wasn't even a one-sided thing; in the Imperial City DLC, Bal briefly uses an Elder Scroll atop WGT to begin the "Planemeld Obverse" and call Coldharbour to Tamriel.

Compared to the seemingly natural progression of things if Dagon had had is way, Bal's Daedric invasion seems like it breaks all the rules. Was the Planar Vortex actually Nova Lyg? That might explain why Meridia destroyed it, since the Magna Ge are blamed by Camoran for the fall of Lyg. Perhaps the reason for Bal's sphere of domination and enslavement (and his penchant for collecting souls and stealing random chunks of Tamriel) is a vestige of his binding of Nirn—his "enslavement of the oceans"—in the previous water-kalpa.

You're right because in morrowind there is daedric ruins underwater and dreughs sometimes near them. I think the dreughs are hiding something in the ocean... a "atlantis".

And the presence of Dreugh Matrons and large groups of dreugh at Vivec's Antlers show that they have at least a rudimentary social structure.

There's definitely no question about dreughs having once been civilised, that's been established since Daggerfall. Shame we don't get to see more of it though.

legoless wrote:Compared to the seemingly natural progression of things if Dagon had had his way, Bal's Daedric invasion seems like it breaks all the rules. Was the Planar Vortex actually Nova Lyg? That might explain why Meridia destroyed it, since the Magna Ge are blamed by Camoran for the fall of Lyg.

I thought he credited Mehrunes with the destruction of Lyg,

Commentaries Book 4 wrote:Deny not that these days shall come again, my novitiates! For as Mehrunes threw down Lyg and cracked his face, declaring each of the nineteen and nine and nine oceans Free, so shall he crack the serpent crown of the Cyrodiils and make federation!

(I may just be misunderstanding this though.)

Yeah, but who does he credit with creating Dagon?

Usually Akatosh, but in different ways according to what story.

Honestly, I wish that type of multiple choice background lore had been utilized post-Morrowind. One of my favorite parts of Morrowind's main narrative was when Vivec gave you three different versions of what happened at Red Mountain and said "Believe what you choose to." That's how TES Lore works at its best, IMO.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:Usually Akatosh, but in different ways according to what story.

Camoran credits the Mange Ge with Dagon's creation and therefore Lyg's destruction. Meridia, a wayward star orphan herself, decided to save the Mundus in order to spite Bal. What would her motive be, other than to prevent the undoing of Dagon's work in the previous kalpa?

From Molag Bal's closing speech in ESO:

Your world would have been better off if the Planemeld had succeeded. Had you bowed before me and accepted eternal servitude, I would have protected you. There are worse masters than I. Far worse.

Why was Bal trying to protect mortal souls? Sure, to be the big baddie and enslave them, but he uses the word "protect". Sounds very Akatosh-like to me.

Abnur Tharn seems to snidely imply the two overlap in more ways than Imperial scholars and priests are comfortable with, himself excluded naturally. He naturally fails to elaborate on this, because our primitive, non-Nibenese brains can't grasp his brilliant intellect, or something.

If you ask me, the old blowhard was just trying to justify his own amoral and un-Imperial behavior throughout the whole affair, but I guess it's possible he's onto something.

Interesting. I don't remember that line of dialogue. It's also curious that Akatosh is the one who rescues Aquilarios and the legions of paragon soul shriven from the Wailing Prison, even though Aquilarios is the one who broke his Covenant in the first place and the Soulless One is more Lorkhanic than anything. Just pragmatism, or something more?

Veren became religiously devout at some point in his life, and was very loyal to Akatosh in particular. I wouldn't assign much of a deeper meaning to it in this particular case. Some data mined documents from a future ESO expansion (Gold Coast probably) seem to indicate we'll be getting a new Akatosh-centered questline soon, so maybe this will be elaborated on.

Wasn't gold coast the location of the dark brotherhood dlc?

Yes, but I heard the Aquilarios family have estates there.

Varen was a Colovian. Also, a Dark Brotherhood expansion doesn't have to exclusively include DB content. The DB storyline will likely weave in and out of individual settlement questlines. The documents I read about Akatosh imply one of Akatosh' arch-Primates from Kvatch was murdered by the DB as part of the background of the DLC. I'll bet that's the connection.