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Hello

I was wondering is someone more learned in ES lore could assist me?

I have a character, whom I would like to join the legion in Cyrodill (He lives in the water front district.) then be sent to Skyrim with many other men as reinforcement to the Legionnaires fighting the Stormcloaks.

However I don’t think he would join to fight, I would rather him be conscripted into the army and trained, for RP purposes.

So really my question is does the Legion conscript men at 18, whom do they conscript? Anyone in the Empire? Only imperials? And how is it all managed, what time do they serve etc.

I am imagining the Legion has to conscript to get enough men to maintain their Empire, but this is just a guess.

I would be grateful for any opinions or information that I may of missed.

-Chris

So according to Ordo Legionis: "The Legion selects candidates on the basis of superior endurance, the soldierly virtue, and trustworthy personality, the citizen's virtue, for service in the Legion is the model for the duties of Imperial citizenship."

But that sounds like the optimal recruiting standards the Legion uses in the best of times. 4E 201 was not the best of times.

I think the Legion would conscript to fill its ranks, the overall impression I got from Skyrim was that most of the legionaries "didn't want to be there" and so were likely conscripts. As to who the Legion would conscript? My guess is only adults (especially given how few children there are in Cyrodiil). By the Stormcloak War the Empire had been reduced to Cyrodiil, High Rock, and parts of Skyrim. Conscription would be more common in the stable areas than war-torn Skyrim, where political loyalties might be suspect. I'm willing to bet then that most of the Legionaries would be Imperials or Bretons, though anybody living in Cyrodiil or High Rock could be conscripted.

As for how long service would go for? Conscription is usually (but not always) short term. The term of service in the Roman legion when the Roman legion was still a citizen-army (ie conscript army) initially lasted for however long the war lasted. The Senate expected citizens to perform their duty until victory or death. But that wasn't very popular, so later on conscripted citizens would be discharged after a maximum of 6 years service. Since the Imperial Legion and the Empire in general are based strongly on Rome, I would say 6 years as a term of service for conscripts.

As for how conscription was managed, in general before lottery systems each town (IRL) had to provide a certain amount of manpower based on (usually out-dated) census data. It was up to the town's local authorities to see the quota filled. They would press petty criminals and the poor, from both the town and surrounding countryside, into the army. Often a local constable or sheriff took part in the recruiting process, to make sure that draft-dodging was punished.

One particularly unappealing form of conscription involved having an able-bodied man "dragooned" - he would be arrested on trumped up charges, found guilty, and then punished with a lengthy term of service in the military, often in the dragoons (cavalry), hence the word. I'm guessing the Tamrielic Empire did this from time to time.

Conscription was for a short term, but a volunteer in the Roman Legion who agreed to serve for 20 years could look forward to being awarded a grant of land (most likely in a colony established for the fact, thus all your neighbors would also be 20-year veterans).

Also to consider: If a young man from a wealthy family was selected in the draft, he could get out of service by paying a large sum of money outright (in later ages this was called a 'shield tax') or supply some other poor fellow to take his place. A poor man may agree to take the place of a wealthy son in payment of a debt, or on the promise that his family was cared for.

For your roleplay, I can see a volunteer who looks forward to nothing else but that pension in twenty years. Then he meets a veteran in his travels who tells him the retirement grant doesn't make up for all the hardship, thus disillusioning your character's hopes. Or he could be taking the place of a rich man's son on the promise his own family keeps their home, only to learn later on that the rich family reneged on their promise and seized the homestead anyway.

Most of the Imperial soldiers we see in Skyrim are actually local Nords conscripted into the Legion. This is straight from Skyrim's dialogue, and supported by the character models they're given. The Legion has always heavily recruited locals from its Provinces, especially during times of war. The actual Cyrodiilics we see in the army are usually officers, like General Tullius. That's not to say your character absolutely wouldn't be part of the Imperial Army in Skyrim, but I'd wager most of the Cyrodiils being recruited would be involved in defense and rebuilding in their home country. A few of the Imperial grunts in Skyrim actually are Imperials, of course. We also see Bretons and Redguards. Some of the officers are Elves, including a High Elf, so there are exceptions to any rule. Nothing about the lore as we know it prevents your background from being plausible. My biggest question would be why the Legion would pay to ship locals up to Skyrim when they could just recruit locally there and save money. The locals in Cyrodiil would be better spent on patrols, or rebuilding roads and buildings.

Recruiting locally might be supported by dialogue, but the vast majority of Legionnaires you see in Skyrim are Imperials, and they often complain of the cold. Sounds like a lot of Cyrodilics were sent north.

I should have expected Bethesda to be self-contradictory with all evidence on everything, ever.

In lore, they've always recruited heavily in the Provinces. Well, some of them. In a place like Morrowind, they kind of use the "shock and awe" tactic. They roll out the ceremonial uniforms and show a lot of Cyrodiilic faces. Reason there is that while the Tribunal negotiated terms for the Armistice, many common Dunmer always opposed Morrowind joining the Empire, so a little extra force and strong-arming is needed.

In High Rock and Skyrim, they've traditionally recruited locals to give that whole "we're all the Empire" vibe to the locals. The Bretons and Nords are usually among the first people to join a new Empire. This has been true of all three Cyrodiilic Empires. The Nords and Bretons generally either are founding members, or among the very first races to join. There's no need to show off a lot of Cyrodiils in those nations because they already feel like they belong. They don't need to be bullied or awed into submission.

I guess the Civil War is a unique circumstance, though. Maybe the Nords feel like they've bled enough for the Empire, even those who give it lip service in the game. In that situation it makes sense for lots of Cyrodiils to be shipped in. I kinda liked the idea that most of 'em were actually Nords, though. It adds a level of irony and complexity to the whole Stormcloaks thing, if the "Imperials" they were killing were their own cousins. I guess they still are, but just not as close on the family tree.

There's certainly no ambiguity on the "brother versus brother, friend versus friend" aspect of the civil war. One side or the other will frequently mention how some Stormcloaks are former Legion, or that you may know some of the people in the opposing force you're about to assault.

Heck, it's shown to us very early on in the conflict between Hadvar and Ralof. From dialogue later on you can easily infer the two grew up together in Riverwood (Ralof's family founded the village, and Hadvar speaks of the nightmares living under the gaze of Bleak Falls Barrow gave him as a child).

Well this is from a very early event 200 years ago so maybe it is not relevant to current status of the empire but in the Umbriel books there is a legions in elsewyr and the empire was forced to lay them off because they can't afford to have that many legions. So I guess what I'm saying is maybe the empire doesn't recruit (and/or conscript) as much as people might think because maybe they don't have enough septims to hand out to everyone.

@Pilaf and Dark Spark:
IIRC city guards take part in the town sieges and when a town is captured the guards are replaced by the opposing side's soldiers (Stormcloaks or Legionaries). So even ignoring the Legion the Nords fight each other quite a lot. It is also possible that, since the Stormcloak war seems to have dragged on for some time by 4E 201, much of the early fighting may have been done between the Stormcloaks and local (ie Nord) Legion units. Only by 201 did the Emperor decide to bring out the big guns and send Tullius with Cyrodiilic legions north.

Even afterwards Nords may still have *volunteered* to join the Legion, there are some characters who say as much. I'm sure that the Legion would have accepted Nord volunteers into its ranks. I just don't think that the Legion would have conscripted Nords during the Skyrim civil war, because conscription is unpopular and it would likely have alienated the locals.

Thank you very much to everyone for your helpful responses. I have gained a much better picture of the Legion now.

I think I shall go with the idea that my OC was drafted into the Legion from his home in the water front, he is poor but not a criminal, at the age if 18. I imagine all 18 yr old men would be drafted unless they had trades (smiting or tailoring) which is unlikely they would yet. And then they would undergo training, those whom did not pass would go into more menial tasks such as banner bearing/ logistical support of the Legions. Those whom did would then undergo a good year of two of hard training to make them into Trained fighters. I am going to do a bit of research into Rome Legionnaires training etc

Even through The legion has conscription I still think it would be more then "Here's a pitchfork peasant! Your now a soldier". I think that among the men there would be a particular pride and desire to join, pride in someway. A bit like that of the men of our world wars.

After his training he is quite up for it, but my idea is that when he and many new recruits and sent to reinforce Skyrim which I like the idea of, they find the reality of war on the front lines to be most unpleasant, bitter and altogether terrible.


Edit: I don't think that the Legion would have much success conscripting Nords from Skyrim into the Legion during the civil war, They march into a village I would see just skirmishing breaking out. Obviously many may join freely.

Do you folk think this story sounds okay and realistic?

Thank you so much for your help everyone, I am very grateful for all your help!!!!

I found two good sites:

http://www.therthdimension.org/AncientR ... aining.htm

http://historywarsweapons.com/recruitme ... oman-army/

One of them mentions that "Thieves, lazy and immoral men were not welcomed in the Roman Army, and when serious lapses did occur, such as man being caught asleep on sentry duty, they were dealt with very severely indeed, often with fatal results." I imagine this would be the same with the Legion, I think they wanted only the best to serve loyally, not like many medieval armies that were just peasants given a sword.

Actually, the age of adulthood in Tamriel is 16: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Letter_from_the_Steward

Conscripting Nords in Skyrim during the civil war seems to be of a question of "We could do it, but why bother?" As subjects of the Emperor, every citizen is obligated to serve the Empire in some capacity (it's the usual refrain for taxation, but the argument was used in history to justify levees and impressment) and someone who defies conscription is deemed a criminal (it may go as far as desertion, which is a grave crime in the military). But the reality of the situation is that guaranteeing the loyalty or cooperation of a soldier you pressed into service is all that more uncertain in a civil war like this, so it may be more trouble than it's worth. Hence, the Legion would accept mostly volunteers and be less-than-active in trying to draft young people in a village.

If there were any drafting to be done, the Legion would be combing out the ranks of town guards for the best or most useful prospects.