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Hi there,

I have a question, or a few

The Ancient Nords worshiped Animals, believing them to be representations/totems of the gods am I right?

Did they actually know the Gods? As the divines are know today?

During the beginning of the Dragon War the Nords I imagine dropped worshiping animals along with dragons.

During Alduins bane Felldir says "sister hawk"

Felldir: "Hold, Alduin on the Wing! Sister Hawk, grant us your sacred breath to make this contract heard! Begone, World-Eater!

Sister Hawk links to Kyne, so did they know of the Gods now? If so How did they suddenly learn of them?

Sorry if this is a jumbled up mess, I just am very interested in the Dragon wars period and would like to have a full understanding of the religious beliefs at the time, and how they were changed and up-heaved. Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks for your time,

-Chris

The engraved tablets along the 7,000 Steps mention Kyne too. The High Hrothgar page has all the text of the 10 tablets.

In short, Kyne was instrumental in giving the dragon tongue ability to early mankind. That might be how mankind "discovered" the gods.

Its complicated, but essentially, animal totems representing the gods. (not necessarily the Divines, they were a later invention)

Back on Atmora, the Dragon Cult was a fairly benevolent operation. What changed to turn it into what it became before the Dragon War is not known, but it changed, and the Nords eventually rebelled.

The Cult was hunted down - they remain as Draugr and Dragon Priests - and in due course, by the first Empire a sort of mix and match had developed of Elven and Human concepts, who were retrospectively applied to the old worship of totem animals.

What must be remembered is the Divines as the Eight were essentially made up by Alessia's rebels, surviving Ayleids, and Nords as a compromise - both Elven and Nordic pantheons have differences to the Eight. (and enough similarities people didn't mind. Mostly.)


Further still, because the Imperials didn't and don't understand Nord beliefs, they misinterpreted them, which as you can imagine causes issues.

Thank you both for the replies,

-Evil-I - Ahh of course thanks, I haven't been up High Hrothgar in ages, It does seem like an ideal time that the gods were discovered.

I appreciate your reply CBR JGWRR, Its helpful.

I'm writing a fan fiction/story, and planning a character, set at the very beginning of the dragon war, before Kyne intervened. So I guess that at this time animal totems representing the gods would be the religion, maybe it would of been a little bit like Native American beliefs or something along those lines.

Its seems that a lot of it is simply not known and Bethesda have left gaps for us to fill with our imaginations

Thanks again, anyone else opinions or input would be very much appreciated, I am no lore master.

-Chris

It should be noted that nine Totem animals came over from Atmora. The Dragon Priests were not the only priesthood. Wall murals depict priests for the other eight as well. It's likely these lesser cults were tolerated by the Dragons. In their own ancient sites, the murals appear. Even in Skuldafn, the home of Alduin himself, the other Totems are present.



Felldir the Old specifically invokes the name of "Sister Hawk" when using the powers of the Elder Scroll to banish the World Eater. Logically, the Hawk totem animal represents Kyne, the goddess of the sky, who is also associated strongly with the powers of the Thu'um, and with the Greybeards of a later era. It can be deduced that she played a big spiritual role among the early Nords who rebelled against the Dovah.

Other confirmed or logical Totem identities:

Shor is the Fox, as confirmed in this official text. He's seen by some as a trickster deity, as Lorkhan often is, so that's not a huge surprise.

Tsun is logically the Whale. The symbolism of him guarding the whalebone bridge is an obvious giveaway.

Alduin is clearly the Dragon, although that totem may have originally stood for an early iteration of Akatosh.

The Snake is a tough one. Some people identify him with Shor because of the Redguard deity Sep, but the previous link clearly ties Shor to the Fox. I think the Snake is Orkey, who eats away the life of mortals, much like a hungry snake.

Jhunal, the god of wisdom and math, would be strongly associated with the Moth if this were Cyrodiil. However, it's not, and the figure on the Moth wall mural is female. I therefore think the wise old Owl is Jhunal, and the Moth is Dibella.

Through the process of elimination - and certain real world mythological parallels - Mara as the she-wolf is logical. She's the only remaining female Divine, and the Wolf is female on wall murals.

The only major Nordic god remaining is Stuhn, and it just so happens we have one male Totem left - the Bear.


That's my personal interpretation of the list, comparing the totems to what we know of Nordic gods. I'm pretty sure this is close to being accurate, especially for Kyne, Tsun, Alduin and Shor. The rest are logical guesses.

Thank you so much Pilaf The Defiler! I am very, very grateful, your post was very helpful, Thanks for taking the time to write it. Its really very helpful

The Ternian Monks in ESO are a secluded pagan group who still worship the Bear, Wolf and Fox (the "Three Old Gods") at the Nordic ruins in Mistwatch. Apparently greater Nord society shuns them for their practices. Might be linked to an ancient stigma against the Dragon Cult?

Hi again, I found a great article on the elder scrolls wikia, should of done my reaserch : http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Anci ... c_Pantheon

They claim Shor is the snake which makes sense in what they say about him persuading et'Ada to create mundus

And they say Orkey is the fox. Since he tricked the Nords into giving up long lifespans

But I personally agree with you Shor being the Fox, and Orkay the Snake (snakes, death, trickery... it just fits, and the figure on the Fox mural looks more like a warrior king.......), but it seems it could be the other way around, the text you linked obviously states with Shor as the Fox, weird that TES wikia haven't seen that yet...

You'll note the lack of accurate references on that article.

legoless wrote:The Ternian Monks in ESO are a secluded pagan group who still worship the Bear, Wolf and Fox (the "Three Old Gods") at the Nordic ruins in Mistwatch. Apparently greater Nord society shuns them for their practices. Might be linked to an ancient stigma against the Dragon Cult?

That's an interesting point, It may well be linked to the stigma of the cult, but then again the cult was mainly the dragon, the other Gods and their animal totems were kept after the downfall of the Cult if I am correct. Until they were merged

I wonder if the early (pre dragon war/early dragon war) Nords used the names Mara, Dibella, Shor etc or gave them names like the great bear or something, its just I was thinking about Nords under the persecution of the Cult, whom did they pray to in their grief, pain and sorrow, whom did they call on in battle?

You'll note the lack of accurate references on that article.

Yes, your quite right, it doesn't use much to back up its theories.

I gave my reasons for the differences between my list and ESWiki. There is no official list, so you can feel free to go with whichever version you prefer. Do note that the Hawk, Whale, Fox and Dragon are pretty much confirmed, though. I'm standing by my choices because of the thought that went into them and the logic. Their list, I really can't get behind and as others said it's unsourced.

I'm pretty sure names like Shor predated Tamrielic colonization, as the book I posted connecting him to the Fox is set in Atmora. The oldest Nords believed in Sovngarde, too. In fact, Alduin kept a portal to it in his capital city. It's logical that belief in Shor and the other old gods existed under his rule. He wanted to rule the world and enslave men, but not necessarily be the only god. He was content to be the main god.