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High Rock Culture

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:43 pm
by cowleyj
I am working on a mod to add (at least some of) High Rock to TESV, as something to occupy me for...(knowing me) a year or two. So, a big issue for me is the question of what kind of culture exists in High Rock? Is there anything (in-game or out) that I can refer to for such information. The Pocket Guide to the Empire will probably have something, but what else? Are there any real-life cultures that Bretonic culture is similar to, in the same way that Nordic culture is somewhat like Norse culture?

Any help would be appreciated. I want to make this mod as lore-friendly as I possibly can, so I am calling on you, lore-masters of UESP!

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:20 pm
by legoless
Watch some YouTube videos of Imperial towns (like Pelagiad) in Morrowind, and street dialogue in Daggerfall. Maybe also take a look at some of the High Rock zones in ESO. That should give you a taste.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:23 am
by Thuro Pendragon
Also its somewhat like old fashioned Britannia. Breton. Britain.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:44 am
by legoless
Real life Bretons are from Brittany, France. TES Bretons take far more inspiration from the French than the English.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:14 am
by cowleyj
Thanks for the tips, legless.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:30 pm
by Snail's Pace
Keep in mind that The Warp in the West apparently converted the people of High Rock from English to French :wink:. I think of the culture as being inspired by an amalgam of ancient Celtic cultures with medieval English and French cultures. Brittany is region of France, but it is also one of the six Celtic nations.

I think you could borrow pretty freely from those real-world historical cultures and still be "lore-friendly" - especially since, between TESII and TESIII, Bethesda altered their own ideas about what TES Bretons are based on.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:46 am
by Dark Spark
Brittany was established as a colony of Britons who sailed south across the Channel and settled on the north coast of present-day France. Brittany means 'Little Britain".

A little later, some Scandinavians settled nearby and the two races began to intermingle, forming the realm of Normandy, populated by the Normans. When the Norman invasion of England came about, essentially a mixed race of Celtic and Scandinavian people 'returned home' to the isle.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:11 am
by Pilaf The Defiler
Your influences for Bretons can and should include any and all western European people. I guess basically anyone would would have fallen under the umbrella of "Western Franks" back in the day. There's as much room for Spanish and German influence as French and British. In fact, it would add welcome variety and spice to the setting. Remember that High Rock is cosmopolitan and varied, even post-Warp. It absorbs lots of different cultures and people, and each kingdom has its own distinctive flair. Don't be afraid to get creative and look to a wide variety of cultures for inspiration.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:47 am
by Aranel
Really, besides Bethesda maybe not being 100% sure what they wanted to do with the Bretons right away, I would say that Bretons are sort of a general "Western European" group - French and English being the most evident, but there are some Celtic parallels (Reachmen primarily - their names give off a sort of Celtic vibe to them, and their culture gives off the negative impressions that the Romans had on Germanic and Celtic people, IMO) in the TES lore that gives it quite a bit of variety and spice. Though some of that might be me grabbing for strings. :P

As for "current High Rock" I suppose the most I can gather from (recent) updates is that racial tensions with orcs has been on the rise again; in the early 4th era, Orsinium was attacked again, destroyed, and rebuilt between Skyrim and Hammerfell.
As such, since you're doing a mod, I'd suggest maybe some dialogue for players who are playing as orcs (and/or maybe have an orc follower) -- I imagine racial tensions would still be pretty high, and that might lead to some interesting interactions... Maybe a quest that has to do with a poor-off Orc family (or just one Orc). Or a orc/breton couple being social outcasts in their community, hoping to gain fair to another country (maybe Cyrodiil or Skyrim).

If you would like ideas for names, outside of what has been provided in the games, in Greg Keyes books, he has a character that is a Breton girl named Annaïg. This is an actual Breton name (diminutive of Anna), so if you would like more "spice" and variation, you can probably use some real life Breton-Breton names without any "lore breaking" - I would recommend this site for ideas, personally.

That said, I would suggest giving Daggerfall a go to get what feel of High Rock you can get from Bethesda. Obviously much of it might be "leftovers" and might be retconned or ignored in future titles, but for the time being, it's about the best you can get. (Plus Bethesda released it for free - I use the DaggerfallSetup.exe personally, and the file size isn't very big)
Hopefully some of this will be of help, though!

Edit:
Oh, and depending on how detailed you want to be -- if you have any help (or are able to do so yourself) with clothing, I would take a look at some of the clothing they used in Daggerfall (overall, I'd say it's mostly flowing gowns and loose shirts, often with low chestlines... so sort of generic medieval fantasy, I guess, but different from what you're likely to find in Skyrim. Sort of closer to Oblivion in comparison, I guess).

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:47 am
by thegooseking
Snail's Pace wrote:Keep in mind that The Warp in the West apparently converted the people of High Rock from English to French :wink:. I think of the culture as being inspired by an amalgam of ancient Celtic cultures with medieval English and French cultures. Brittany is region of France, but it is also one of the six Celtic nations.
There are, basically, three types of Celts:-
  • The Brythonic Celts (Wales, Cornwall, England-pre-Anglo-Saxon-Settlement, and Brittany).
  • The Goidelic Celts (Ireland, Scotland, Man).
  • The Continental Celts (Gauls, Iberians, and the Alpines who were unfortunate enough to live between the Teutons and the Romans and as such pretty much no longer exist).
I think the original idea of the Bretons was to stick mainly with the Brythonic Celts of Arthurian Legend. It's not quite that simple, though, because the Brythonic Celts (particularly the Welsh) also have a strong influence on the high-fantasy elven tropes that TES borrows, particularly for the Altmer and Bosmer.

Canonically, Bretons are part-elf, so that connection is well-explained by the lore, but wanting to distinguish them may explain the decision to make the Bretons appear more like Continental Celts - there is clearly a heavy Gaulish influence there in later titles. I would suspect (though I don't have any lore to back it up - it just seems like what would naturally happen) that there might also be some Iberian influence in the south, where High Rock borders Hammerfell. There is also probably some Goidelic influence in the east, where High Rock borders Skyrim. At least the native Reachmen are very clearly Goidelic-inspired (though they also have a bit of Teutonic paganism going on).

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:45 pm
by Minor Edits
Basically, just play Oblivion. That exemplifies High Rock culture, for most intents and purposes.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:43 pm
by Velothi
Breton seem to be more like the Anglois culture in all honesty, with the Reachmen best exemplifying a Gaelic/Celtic culture. Very stereotypically anyways with 'DA OLD GODS' being revered but never given much clarity as to who these Old Gods are.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:22 pm
by Br3admax
Minor Edits wrote:Basically, just play Oblivion. That exemplifies High Rock culture, for most intents and purposes.
Pretty much, Bretons went Imperial long ago.

Re: High Rock Culture

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:52 am
by Pilaf The Defiler
You should definitely pay attention to the lore on Wyresses and the like, too, as an example of the more "druidic" elements of Breton society. (In fact, according to Arena's racial description for Bretons, they're descended from the Druids of Galen. This is not mentioned anywhere else but you could find creative ways to connect this to the Direnni who worshiped Jephre).

It should also be noted that while Bretons are devout followers of the Eight, they are more tolerant than most other races when it comes to relatively benevolent Daedra like Azura. There's a thriving abbey to Azura just northwest of Wayrest that operates openly under the full blessing of High Rock's King, mostly because they're very charitable and help keep the more sinister Daedric cults in line, especially their arch-enemies in the Vaermina cult.