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Well, I've recently decided that I want to make a Buoyant Armigers MOD which opens up the Faction for gameplay. What I'd like to do here is discuss with everyone my thoughts and ideas, and your own, as to what should go into this faction. I don't want this to be just my baby. I want to work together with all of you and create the best BA faction we can. Without further ado, here are my ideas: What are y'alls' thoughts and ideas? If you wish for your ideas to remain private for reasons, feel free to PM me! I'll begin work soon, within the next two weeks, and keep y'all posted on where everything is at, status wise whenever something changes.

Sounds good - maybe as a final reward, you could have it so that the player can get a house? Similar to the Knightly Orders in Daggerfall:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Kni ... s#Benefits

I'm diggin' this.

- The Temple rank requirement seems intuitive, but there are a few considerations. For one, there are unique Buoyant Armigers in-game at Temple ranks as low as Novice. Additionally, there are even unique (named) Buoyant Armiger NPCs that do not belong to the Temple faction at all. This poses an issue of canon, and it depends on how closely you want to adhere to the original precedents set by both lore and game design (it's different for everyone, but I prefer to make my mods as close to vanilla as possible). The lore might not explicitly state that all Buoyant Armigers belong to the Temple. Or the devs might have forgot to make certain NPCs members. Not sure on that one.

- The focus of the questline sounds good, but I'd also add at least a couple missions that involve escorting or protecting pilgrims. Perhaps a pilgrim has been kidnapped by bandits, or is in need of a bodyguard when venturing to the more dangerous pilgrimage shrines like Ghostgate or Koal Cave. From my understanding, protecting pilgrims is one of the core aspects of the Buoyant Armigers' philanthropy work.

- Expulsion for Vampirism is perfect, I wouldn't change it.

- The favored skill list makes sense too. I'd stick with the five major skills + Restoration. Restoration is the only skill the BA preset has in common with the favored skills of the Temple. As long as that stays in there, the rest is gravy.

- Item rewards is great as well. Maybe even little to no compensation for the very early quests. This way the initiate could prove their selflessness and devotion to the order without expecting anything in return. Quest rewards could then increase in value on a sharp curve, culminating in a nearly god-tier artifact (on par with the Temple's Lord's Mail) as the final item.

- Another meeting with Vivec is also a great idea. It could be implemented near the end of the quest chain as part of a climactic plot twist. It might also be interesting if a highly ceremonial meeting with Vivec was part of an initiation rite that Armigers of the highest rank must undergo. Maybe as part of the final quest to become guild master. It might involve the eradication of the Vampire clans as you suggested, or even putting the player in the middle of some grand scheme involving the Tribunal or Temple politics.
Now, it might behoove you to segregate the work into categories (scripting, dialogue, NPCs, items, world building, etc.) and focus on one at a time. If you try to do everything at once, or chip away at each category piecemeal, it's bound to become overwhelming fast.

If you're planning on going forward with any world building aspects (for instance, adding a new BA fort/headquarters), you might begin there. Creating all faction NPCs might also be a good start. I find it's easiest to create all the "material" aspects of the mod first, and flesh out everything else later. I like being able to click on a cell and see the buildings or NPCs I've put there. Seeing such immediate physical results helps keep me inspired and focused in early development. But that's just the method I've developed. I'm sure you'll come into your own process.

Also, scripting can be difficult and time consuming, and it's entirely dependent upon the complexity of what you want to implement. No matter what anyone says, writing your own from scratch will require a deep knowledge of the inner-workings of MW scripting. I highly recommend that you at least skim over GhanBuriGhan's Scripting For Dummies. AFAIK it's the best guide to MW scripting out there.

You can also cut out a huge portion of time by simply copying pre-existing scripts whenever remotely possible (making minor changes where applicable). Just grab them out of the CS instead of writing your own. In this way you can accomplish anything that has already been scripted in vanilla without mastery of the language itself.

Oh, and the Buoyant Armiger Stronghold is a pretty neat idea too. It's a bit more complex to implement in the way of the Great House strongholds, because of the various stages of development involved. But it would certainly be a great feature provided it made sense canonically.

In fact, what do you think of the idea of making the stronghold double as a Buoyant Armiger barracks? This makes more sense to me than a private home sweet home for no one's benefit but the player's. Based on the faction's ethics and resources, I don't ever see them greenlighting the construction of an entire stronghold just for one person (even the boundlessly relevant and special snowflake that is the player-character). The impetus for the quest itself could involve constructing a sort of military complex in some strategically relevant location, which the player could then "lord" over as the ranking officer. Maybe the faction wants to expand (akin to the Telvanni stronghold situation), or there is a need for an outpost somewhere due to some manufactured threat (vampires, ash creatures, heretics...take your pick). Something to think about anyways.

All in all it looks like an exciting project. I look forward to seeing how it progresses. Once there's a basic skeletal structure I'll see what I can do to contribute more as well. I'd be interested in a "creative consultant" role - possibly even writing some NPCs or quests. We'll see where this goes.

Thank you both for your input and ideas; I like 'em! I've been getting reacquainted with and working through some technical difficulties with the CS over the past few of days. The rust is starting to come off and I'm beginning to remember how to work with it again. Thankfully, its a pretty easy interface. So, onto the topic of some of what y'all brought up:

As soon as y'all brought up a Buoyant Stronghold/Barracks, I almost kicked myself for not thinking about this. I love the idea. I would definitely make it into a bastion for the Armigers to lead strikes from and operate out of. I almost immediately thought of a lore-based blueprint; A triangle shaped compound. Vivec merged three Houses into one entity to make the Buoyant Armigers, and I believe that by applying this three-in-one approach to most, if not all, of the added Armiger Garrison layouts, we could really add some uniqueness to and further develop their ethos. Where do you think a good location would be? I think Grazelands, Ashlands, or the West Gash are prime regions that could use some population.

On the topic of Temple Rank requirement and Temple Membership, I did notice that some of the existing Armigers do indeed fall short of such criteria. What do you suggest could be done in order to better facilitate consistency? Would it suffice to promote Armigers up to Initiate or simply lower the rank requirement for the MOD faction? I'll be putting a lot of already existing NPCs into the BA faction, so, should I just go ahead and throw non-Temple Armigers into the Temple as well? The page on them says that they are a small military arm of The Temple, so I'd be inclined to say that would be alright, lore-wise. I too prefer to make my mods as close to Vanilla as possible, and to follow precedent wherever and whenever possible. However increasing world immersion is a big factor in my passion for this project (not to say immersion isn't something you take seriously, because I know you do).

I was actually thinking for the questline, that at least once per rank, you'd get a pilgrim escort quest. Like you said, pilgrim protection is bread and butter for the Armigers, so I feel it should be a persistent thing. It would gradually increase in danger, and culminate in a trip to Red Mountain. Also, Necromancer purges and the burning of the sorcerous defilers in cleansing, holy fire.

I'm glad you liked the Item Rewards idea, and I like the final reward idea. I was originally going to go with a spread out reward of a full set of enchanted Chitin armor, but, I think yours might be the better method. I'd love ideas for items.

On meeting with Vivec, I think you've got the right of how it should go down. I'd like to explore and maybe even be exposed to Vivec's more.."Mephala" side than we're shown in the MQ.

Something else I thought of, is that in every Armiger garrison, I might add Shrines to Veloth, Nerevar, and Vivec. It just seems to make sense to me that those three would be venerated within the order.

I think I'll save the questline, or the majority of it, for last. I could definitely use a creative consultant type or even a quest/NPC writer. The actual story stuff was never my forte. I've always been more of a big picture person, so, your help would definitely be appreciated. Also, thank you for the link Demi. I'll be reading it rather intensively as this project starts to flower.

I assume you'll be using the in/ex_vivec models for the buildings? Unless you've got experience with 3D modeling and are thinking of making your own (e.g. for the triangle-shaped compound).

If you're going to put a garrison in the Grazelands, maybe not too far north. It seems the BA sphere of influence is vaguely concentrated in the southeast of the continent, particularly Molag Amur, and the central Ashlands.

For the sake of ease, you could forego the Temple membership and rank requirement entirely. Granted the substantial number of non-temple BA NPCs, I don't see this option as an affront to lore. Even dev oversight (if that was the case here) becomes canon.

"Radiant" escort quests would work, as long as you find a way to make them interesting/memorable rather than repetitive "walk from A to B killing cliff racers, repeat". I could see that becoming a factor due to the nature of RPG escort quests.

For the armor, why not Glass? The highest ranking BAs are all decked out in full glass. It's their signature armor. I don't see chitin as being viable endgame loot unless there's a really OP enchantment. It's not out of the question to consider a unique daedric helm either (see Enar Dralor).

And the way I see it, story is the big picture. Otherwise you've got nothing but a bunch of empty buildings and mute NPCs. You should at least conceptualize a vague story arc - what are you hoping to accomplish with this? What is the ultimate goal? What makes the questline more than a directionless smattering of unrelated tasks? It's important. Being able to see the end pulls you through the middle. And the middle is the toughest part. Story outline first! Trust me. It will inform everything else - right down to your decisions about the floorplans and architecture of your buildings, the names and personalities of your NPCs, etc.

I can bet you a character as fully realized as Vivec wasn't conceived because the devs decided to model a step pyramid and a floating rock.

I'm only saying this because if you don't have a firm grasp on your core concepts, there's a strong chance the project will be abandoned.

Demiverse wrote:I assume you'll be using the in/ex_vivec models for the buildings?

Yes. I have zero experience with modelling, so, I was going to just go the path of least resistance on this one and reuse what's already there. For the buildings at least. Depending on how zealous I get, one or two items may be unique in terms of look, but, apart from that, I plan to stay away from too much image working.

Demiverse wrote:For the sake of ease, you could forego the Temple membership and rank requirement entirely. Granted the substantial number of non-temple BA NPCs, I don't see this option as an affront to lore. Even dev oversight (if that was the case here) becomes canon.

I actually think this is what I'll do. It seems so much simpler! I'll keep the same skill set to still bridge the gap between the Armigers and the Temple though.

Demiverse wrote:"Radiant" escort quests would work, as long as you find a way to make them interesting/memorable rather than repetitive "walk from A to B killing cliff racers, repeat". I could see that becoming a factor due to the nature of RPG escort quests.

I'm lowering the amount of escort quests because ten is way too much, and it will take away a lot of time from the other portions of the story line. Also, it would increase the final tally of quests by almost half.

Demiverse wrote:For the armor, why not Glass? The highest ranking BAs are all decked out in full glass. It's their signature armor. I don't see chitin as being viable endgame loot unless there's a really OP enchantment. It's not out of the question to consider a unique daedric helm either (see Enar Dralor).

I'm saving the glass rewards for later on in the questline now; once you reach the command ranks. Item rewards prior to this are going to be enchanted clothing, weapons, and trinkets. I've also heavily considered not doing any rewards, like you said, at the beginning. I like it, but, I feel like a good alternative may be to start doling out Reputation as quest rewards earlier than other factions. It seems logical to me that Vivec's personal military arm would be highly visible and that at least the names of the members would be recognized among a people as attentively pious as the Dunmer. What are your thoughts?

I'd really like to say I've come up with a rank structure, but, I've only got 7, 8, and 9, and only the last two because of in game precedent. 7- Field Marshal 8-Deputy Marshal 9-Grand Marshal. Not much imagination on 7, I admit, but, I'm trying to think of titles that really reflect their philosophy as Warrior Poets.

I've written a story arc since your post. If you'd like to look at it, I can send it your way.

Sure, I'll take a look at what you've got so far.