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Any one else find the opening scenes of the game a bit unrealistic? You have five Stormcloak soldiers, Ulfric, a thief, and you in two wagons, riding to the executions, with only General Tullius and Hadvar on horseback plus the two wagon drivers. So that is eight versus four if anything happens. Plus the prisoners have their hands tied in front of their bodies giving them limited mobility with their arms. This all adds up to a easy prison break to me.

One Stormcloak in each wagon simply drops their arms around the necks of the wagon drivers and strangles them while another grabs their weapons. Since his hands are tied in front of him Ulfric could remove the gag fairly easily and use what ever voiced skill he has to disable Hadvar while the others in the wagon rush him and disable him and take his weapon. While that is going on the prisoners in the first wagon should have a weapon by then should be able to hold off Tullius until the people from the rear wagon rush to help after cutting their hands free. This leaves General Tullius free to run if he is smart.

I'm glad someone else has noticed this. Combine that with the fact that any other person on the wagon could have also removed Ulfric's gag and that the journey supposedly took a few days, I can't believe that no one thought to overpower them.
Also, think of how much better an intro it would've been if that had occurred.

While we're at it, how are Ralof's hands unbound right when the dragon attacked? Did he force them to break or cut them on one of the dead soldier's blades? There are a lot of questions that should be answered.

That's what I was thinking, the first time I played Skyrim. "Man, we could...totally just run for it, right now...No, nobody? Okay then..."

All of this could be simply fixed and if cart they were in was simply a metal cage, and they had baskets on their heads so they don't know what's going on while on controlled doses of skooma.

But the empire has an excellent archers. Should any of the prisoners start anything funny...

Archer wrote:Also, think of how much better an intro it would've been if that had occurred.

Better than a dragon attack on a village that intervenes on your impending execution? It would be cool....but I have to disagree on the "better" part. The way it is now, it feels like fate intervenes, and you get to see a dragon--the main concept in the storyline--right away.

I actually never really noticed the disparity there, it does just scream "PRISON BREAK." I guess I'm always trying to immerse myself at that point and never really noticed. It would've felt better if there were more guards, even just a few, or if the prisoners were in cage carts instead of those open ones.

I guess it comes down to if you like the main quest or not. I really don't like the whole dragon based story line, so any change from that would be welcome.

Archer wrote:I guess it comes down to if you like the main quest or not. I really don't like the whole dragon based story line, so any change from that would be welcome.

I'm with you on that one. i always thought that they would be transporting us in cages or something when i read about the game before Skyrims release. and that we would get free some other way.

my question would be, since I'm assuming Alduin would have appeared on the Throat of the World, since that's where he was banished and it fits because it's not too far from Helgen. so if he did appear there, why didn't he encounter Parthuurnax at all? it just seems odd to me that he wouldn't stop to speak with him for a few moments, and that Parthuurnax would do nothing about it.

however, this all depends on where Alduin reappears. It's quite possible he didn't appear near The Throat of the World, but who knows?

I thought it was a highly cool start to the game which was there for it's wow factor rather than replay logic.

I agree Alduin probably does appear at the throat of the world so perhaps Paarthunax legged it, pacifist that he is

But..

perhaps Alduin did appear and Paarthunax did his best to kill him. After a brief battle P was left nearly dead. Alduin gloated, saying P and his scraggy grey beard followers would be spared so they can witness him bring about The End, and then Alduin flew off to begin his work.

So when we meet P later, we are looking at the highly wounded version after this encounter. P doesn't whine about being duffed up by Alduin when we meet him cos he's not like that

Well, it's also important to remember that most game scenes in the TES aren't exactly realistically adequate. I mean, it's not like there's really only a dozen people living in a huge city like Solitude or Whiterun - that's just how many they put in, since they don't do the fill-in-the-blanks types of NPCs.

That said, doesn't Ralof mention something specifically about how Ulfric informed his men to go peacefully with the Legion soldiers when they were initially ambushed? I'm not completely sure, but I think I remember a line like that being spoken - perhaps when you return to Whiterun with him, if you exhaust the conversation options. Perhaps Ulfric had some other motive or plan that was interrupted by a date with destiny.

Pancake wrote:But the empire has an excellent archers. Should any of the prisoners start anything funny...

Darn skippy - those archers got a mean eye for the bullseye!

Archer wrote:I guess it comes down to if you like the main quest or not. I really don't like the whole dragon based story line, so any change from that would be welcome.

I can understand that. The main quest could've been much more epic and have more depth to it, definitely. But I think the intro builds it up nicely, even if the entire questline doesn't follow through.

Mattbott wrote:I thought it was a highly cool start to the game which was there for it's wow factor rather than replay logic.

^This pretty much

Yeah Ulfric could have easily removed that gag.

AbiwonKenabi wrote:I can understand that. The main quest could've been much more epic and have more depth to it, definitely. But I think the intro builds it up nicely, even if the entire questline doesn't follow through.

the intro was ...ok. the real problem is what comes afterwards, like you said. the beginning makes a Dragon attack seem absolutely deadly to everyone there, but the rest of the main quest made the intro feel hollow to me in future replays.

The fact that the subtitles tell you that the dragon's name is Alduin, removing all mystery as to who the big black dragon is, so when he revives Sahloknir later and Delphine gets baffled you can't rely on telling her, "uhh, the subtitles said the dragon was Alduin, do you recognize that name?" (I assume that it's not too far into the main quest to deserve a spoiler tag...)

Also, would they really think that an Altmer was crossing the border to help the Stormcloaks? Like, really?

It was partly the reason my altmer came to Skyrim...

ZeRoc wrote:Also, would they really think that an Altmer was crossing the border to help the Stormcloaks? Like, really?

Oh geez, I didn't even think of that. Or any other race besides Nord and perhaps Imperial for that matter.

I just like to believe that General Tulius sent the larger detachment of soldiers away on another assignment right before the scene opens...."We got it from here, boys!"

I think Ulfric's gag is the single stupidest bit of that scene. We see in game unrelenting force is capable of knocking a giant off its feet, Ulfric himself is said to have shouted the forsworn from the walls of Markarth, when the greybeards whisper Dovahkiin all of High Horthgar shakes and yet we are meant to believe that a simple rag tied around his mouth will be sufficient to suppress this power?

Given the fact it worked.

So did everything else people posted as not being realistic.

Well, if he can't say the words, I don't see how he could do anything. I think you actually have to say the words of power to make them do anything at all. the greybeards whisper, sure, but the point is they actually let out the sound. Ulfric wouldn't have been able to say anything with the gag in his mouth, not even whisper.

philfredobob wrote:Well, if he can't say the words, I don't see how he could do anything. I think you actually have to say the words of power to make them do anything at all. the greybeards whisper, sure, but the point is they actually let out the sound. Ulfric wouldn't have been able to say anything with the gag in his mouth, not even whisper.

yes, the beauty of a "shout" is it's a magical thing based round words so you're not venting raw power through your mouth. I would be extremely upset if there was a "destroy gag" shout

a similar situation would be a general being gagged and not being able to say "fire" in a battle.. another powerful word stopped by a piece of cloth

i think these things are part of a fantasy game so you need to accept them for what they are, rather than chip at the logic. Cos there is none. It's magic

In the marvellous book Dune, Jessica is also gagged so she can't use the Bene Gesserit voice. So we have a sci-fi/fantasy "legal precedent" here lol

The gag would have been very easy to shout off. All Ulfric needed to do was mumble FUS and it would have been ripped off. The stormcloaks could have easily overpowered the lone carriage driver and could have escaped days ago. The Legion should have used chains and tie their hands behind their back whilst parylsing Ulfric to avoid him breaking free. The game should have started off with the ambush and act as a tutorial as well as to give you a sense of what is happening. Such as you create your character, you have set up a small camp and you do a few minor bits that serve as a minor tutorial then you hear the legion ambushing the Stormcloaks. You fight untill you recieve a major blow to the head and are knocked out. You wake up to find yourself in the carriage and the opening scene continues as normal but with a few changes. Helgen has a lot more Legionaires, the prisoners are in chains and gagged. Tullius has two bodyguards and Ulfric is parylsed with a ring. But Alduin doesn't interfer with your excution. Instead, the stormcloaks are rescued by Stormcloaks and chaos ensures just as you are about to be killed. Then Alduin shows up to destroy Helgen. It would give you a sense of what is happening in Skyrim.

You can't mumble ''Fus'' with a gag in your mouth.

seriously, try it. you can't do it.