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Can we just talk for a minute about Hadvar and Ralof? I am utterly fascinated by them.

Both of their families live in Riverwood, so they must know each other - I think it's even sort of alluded to in the intro (Hadvar says something like, "Ralof, you traitor!" or something like that). But Riverwood is a tiny town, and there are only a few young people living there, so unless one family relocated recently, they must have grown up together. Were they friends? How did they become such staunch supporters of opposite sides? How did Hadvar feel about capturing his old childhood friend Ralof and seeing him go to the executioner? Did Ralof feel betrayed?

And how come whichever one you go with, the other never seems to come home? Does the other one die in the dragon attack? If so, how come that is never mentioned again - if you go with Ralof, Alvor never says, "Oh no, a dragon in Helgen! What happened to Hadvar?" Whichever one you choose seems completely unconcerned about the fate of a man he has likely known his entire life. War or no war, most people would be affected by that! I wonder if either of them was in love with Camilla Valarius - she seems to be the only single woman of marriageable age in Riverwood. Oh man, what if Hadvar was in love with Ralof's sister? What if his heart was broken when she got married?

There could be a novel about Hadvar and Ralof. I'm fascinated by them. Two friends, torn apart by conflict! Even though I realize I'm projecting a lot of my own imagination onto their story, it's an RPG, right? And some of it has to be true - they probably DID grow up together, in a very small town. They're the most interesting NPCs in Skyrim to me. Ever think about the tragedy of Hadvar and Ralof? Just me?

I am pretty sure the other dies when you escape from Helgen. When I first started I went with Ralof but then I sided with the Imperials and Hadvar was nowhere to be found, he was never mentioned nor did he appear in quests that he would normally appear in. Which kinda sucks cause I thought he was a pretty cool character.

FredTheGreat wrote:I am pretty sure the other dies when you escape from Helgen. When I first started I went with Ralof but then I sided with the Imperials and Hadvar was nowhere to be found, he was never mentioned nor did he appear in quests that he would normally appear in. Which kinda sucks cause I thought he was a pretty cool character.

That's basically tragic. What a great and sad story! RIP Hadvar or Ralof.

I had never thought about it until now, but now I probably will always think about it when I start a new game. Way to go, making me feel things, jeez.

Marelo wrote:I had never thought about it until now, but now I probably will always think about it when I start a new game. Way to go, making me feel things, jeez.

ACHIEVEMENT: UNLOCKED

Felicia wrote:Were they friends? How did they become such staunch supporters of opposite sides? How did Hadvar feel about capturing his old childhood friend Ralof and seeing him go to the executioner? Did Ralof feel betrayed?

It could be that Riverwood is peaceful enough that they keep those things to themselves. Alvor and Gerdur's families seem to coexist well enough. Then again, maybe Hadvar and Ralof were on the same side (I would think Imperial), but then Ralof veered toward the Stormcloaks when the conflict came up. Ralof's response to Hadvar's "traitor" line is interesting, too: "We're escaping, Hadvar. You're not stopping us this time." So it seems they had been on opposite sides for some time already, and may have had other run-ins.

It's a sad but interesting story to think about.

I just tried to discuss this with my boyfriend. He said, "Why are all of your deep thoughts about Skyrim?" He doesn't appreciate me.

Zephyr wrote:Ralof's response to Hadvar's "traitor" line is interesting, too: "We're escaping, Hadvar. You're not stopping us this time." So it seems they had been on opposite sides for some time already, and may have had other run-ins.

I just want to know everything about them. If I ever wrote Skyrim fan fiction (or fan fiction of any kind) it would be about Hadvar and Ralof.

Even though I think one or the other is dead there is still hope for those who wish for them to be alive. There is no proof that the other is dead, they just don't appear in game anymore. And there is also no dead body to prove that they are dead.

However I noticed that when you choose to go w/ one or the other the two imperials/stormcloaks that you have to fight come from the way that you would have come from if you went with the other. It could be that you killed them and didn't even know it. *Que suspenseful music*

FredTheGreat wrote:However I noticed that when you choose to go w/ one or the other the two imperials/stormcloaks that you have to fight come from the way that you would have come from if you went with the other. It could be that you killed them and didn't even know it. *Que suspenseful music*

But wouldn't you notice when you looted them? I've never noticed a name on any of the bodies (except the first one that's already dead if you choose the Stormcloak side).

ETA I think if I ever looted a body and it said "Search Ralof" it would straight-up break my little heart.

Ditch the boyfriend, he's a dud

I know that the first two that you fight are generic NPCs but you could assume that one of them is Hadvar or Ralof because they come from the same passageway that you would have gone through if you went with the other. However this is not my reason for thinking that the other is dead, though it is debatable whether the other is dead or not.
I am sort of divided on whether the other is dead but I would generally lean towards dead. Or missing...

Nobody dies. If you choose Ralof and then you go with the imperial side. You still get Hadvar and the other way around.

soda popinski wrote:Ditch the boyfriend, he's a dud

haha, he's good. He just makes fun. He's actually a way bigger gamer than I am, but I get more into exploratory RPGs. He's trying to get me to play Chrono Trigger on my iPad right now but the touchscreen controls are driving me nuts (he's pretty into old games - I don't really know anything about old games because I never played games as a kid).

I'm certain that once upon a time I followed Ralof from Helgen, then joined the Legion and Hadvar was there. So maybe they're not dead, just faded into the obscurity of war. It is strange that neither of their families mentions them. Kind of like how no one in Rorikstead has heard of Lokir. Not that they'd want to acknowledge a horse thief!

I usually follow Ralof ('just cause I do) unless I have an idea that my char might join the Legion, then it's Hadvar. I admit the fangirl in me really does have a soft spot for these two boys! Hadvar is actually one of my favourite characters in Skyrim. He seems quite thoughtful. Such a shame neither of them are marriable without cheating. Console cheating, that is! I have thought about their backstory before. I suppose Riverwood is a convenient meeting place to start the story, but it must have been deliberate of Bethesda to include two men from the same small town who grew up to take different paths.

Hawthorn wrote:Hadvar is actually one of my favourite characters in Skyrim. He seems quite thoughtful.

Yeah, when I actually think about them it really makes me want to choose Hadvar. It's pretty rad of him to free you for no reason other than to save your life. As my mother would say, he's a good egg.

Oh, believe me, there's a fair bit of fanfic about Hadvar and Ralof already ;D. Most of the humble anons at the Skyrim Kink Meme have decided that they're obviously ex-lovers, so there are angsty stories about them breaking up because of choosing different sides in the Civil War. I may have contributed to this myself (*cough*).

But yes, I really loathe Gameplay and Story Segregation. Since you can do quests and questlines in any order, NPCs only rarely change their dialogue to reflect that you have done something. This is annoying a lot of the time, since it leads to some rather unrealistic conversations. However, given that Unbound is the first quest in the game, you'd have thought the family of whichever of Hadvar or Ralof you didn't choose to follow should ask about them!

I imagine if you are on pc you can console one or the other, then look for them in the river wood pub? I'm on xbox so I'm doomed to never see one of them again... I'm intrigued by your idea Felicia and think you should write a back story for them!!!

sevenindasun wrote:I imagine if you are on pc you can console one or the other, then look for them in the river wood pub? I'm on xbox so I'm doomed to never see one of them again... I'm intrigued by your idea Felicia and think you should write a back story for them!!!

I'm on xbox too but they live on in my imagination!

I'm pretty sure I have both of them in my game. Ralof is still sitting around in Gerdur's house and insults me, because I joined the Imperials. Saw Hadvar in the fight for Whiterun.

Belthazor wrote:I'm pretty I have both of them in my game. Ralof is still sitting around in Gerdur's house and insults me, because I joined the Imperials. Saw Hadvar in the fight for Whiterun.

I am relieved to hear this.

Felicia wrote:

soda popinski wrote:Ditch the boyfriend, he's a dud

haha, he's good. He just makes fun. He's actually a way bigger gamer than I am, but I get more into exploratory RPGs. He's trying to get me to play Chrono Trigger on my iPad right now but the touchscreen controls are driving me nuts (he's pretty into old games - I don't really know anything about old games because I never played games as a kid).

Listen to your boyfriend on that one. If I were to make a list of all the greatest games I've ever played, Skyrim would be at the top of that list, but no matter how old it gets, Chrono Trigger also makes the list. Its just that good. If playing on iPad is hard for you, you can get it on PS Vita or Nintendo DS as well, if you have those systems. Seriously, everyone should play Chrono Trigger.

Hadvar is one of the characters i really liked in Skyrim. him and Ralof both i suppose (even though hes a stormcloak traitor, he isnt a bad guy )

i always thought he would be more involved in the main storyline, but i dont think you even get him as a follower? or do you? im not sure, i've finished the legion questline and i cant get him to follow me.

but anyways, yes,i do think about this sometimes. i wish bethesda had put some Hadvar/Ralof dialogue choices for their families.

Hadvar is not without his, um... eccentricities. After the battle for Whiterun, he started stalking my character. It was really creepy.

See the "Bugs" section of Skyrim:Hadvar

After the battle of Whiterun, Hadvar asked me, "Dragonborn, huh. So was it your mother or your father that was the dragon?" or something very close to this. I burst out laughing.

I can confirm that they both live from the dragon attack. Going with Ralof at the start, then joining the Legion, Hadvar was there.