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Has anyone with Dragonborn tried to summon Karstaag during the battle with Alduin? If so what was the result because I imagine this would be a totally awesome battle

I don't have Dragonborn, but I can tell you that Alduin is weak. It won't be so epic.

I think it would be a pretty good matchup, especially if the PC is at a high level, just because Alduin has disgusting amounts of health

Alduin can't be harmed by any means without using Dragonrend on him first, so it's not really possible to pit him against another creature or NPC and expect them to win unless you cheat by continuously hitting him with it.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:Alduin can't be harmed by any means without using Dragonrend on him first, so it's not really possible to pit him against another creature or NPC and expect them to win unless you cheat by continuously hitting him with it.

This. If Karstaag can't use dragonrend it's a moot point. If we take that out of the equation Karstaag would stomp Alduin in 15 seconds.

Truth be told I had way more challenging fights with bandit chieftains than I had with Alduin. A few Dragonrends and big A is a dead lizard. I am really looking forward for those nasty fights that people promise in Dragonborn, especially this Karstaag one. I guess we will see the outcome of this match when I will console them in on PC.

If Alduin were to fight him without his Invincibility, Karstaag would likely kill Alduin with ease

In lore, Alduin is a demigod that can't be harmed and could take on entire armies. The fight between him and the Dovahkiin would have lasted hours instead of minutes and i like to think that the heroes were killed by Alduin, just so that the battle is an epic fight. So Karstaag wouldn't be able to kill Alduin.

Ingame, Karstaag as Alduin is pathetic for someone who is supposed to be a demigod capable of devouring the world and unable to be harmed unless you know Dragonrend. That and you can literally stand by, shout dragonrend and let the heroes do the work. Just don't mention that to the bards as the dovahkiin stood by and watched the heroes kill Alduin doesn't sound that good in a song. In fact, i think i've meet mudcrabs tougher then Alduin! :O Or was that bandits, or dragons. May have been Draugr.

philfredobob wrote:If Alduin were to fight him without his Invincibility, Karstaag would likely kill Alduin with ease

I hate that. I hate that there has to be a discussion about this. A tougher Alduin would be in my top 6 if I got to dictate the contents of a Skyrim patch - in fact, tougher dragons in general.

Look, if dragons were made tougher as so many people claim to want, how many people would be complaining that dragons are too hard to defeat. Imagine if your first fight against Mirmulnir took three hours because you we're only level six and you kept dying because dragons were made super powerful? Bethesda would be getting so many complaints from customers claiming they will never buy their games again because they cannot get past the first dragon fight. I personally find dragons a challenge, becuase on all my characters I choose at most one crafting skill and do not exploit game mechanics. Not saying everyone does but playing on expert, not even the highest difficulty, Dragons are probably the enemy that kills me the most. If you want an extremely challenging game, go play dark souls.

Now on topic, Alduin would win.

Medomé wrote:

philfredobob wrote:If Alduin were to fight him without his Invincibility, Karstaag would likely kill Alduin with ease

I hate that. I hate that there has to be a discussion about this. A tougher Alduin would be in my top 6 if I got to dictate the contents of a Skyrim patch - in fact, tougher dragons in general.

I was going to say there's probably a mod for that, but... Now I'll go with what Mr.Argonian said. Turn up the difficulty if the dragons are too easy. Keep in mind that it also depends on what sort of character you're playing. Heavy armor, sword-and-board types tend to make much shorter work of dragons than other builds, in my experience, so if that's the type of character you usually play, try a different build.

I do want a much more powerful Alduin, but I think dragons in general are fine right now.

Alduin is still the strongest dragon. He has loads more HP, attack strength, and more powerful shouts. He is still comparable to other dragons though, and that's the problem.

^ Exactly what I thought.

You know game has a simply amazing dragon battle?
Dragon's Dogma. That's the first time I've seen a Dragon Battle done really correctly in a game. Nailed it; it was winnable, but you had to fight for it! And it took 30 minutes at the least.
I think the 'big bad' fight should always take about 30 minites. Alduin took me about 5 minutes. It really undermined the 'epic final showdown' feeling that I really wanted from a final boss.

Unionhack wrote:It really undermined the 'epic final showdown' feeling that I really wanted from a final boss.

Yeah, ES games have gotten into that habit as of late, haven't they? Think about it, Oblivion didn't even have a boss fight.

Why would Alduin need to be super strong when his invincibility is removed, though?

From a story telling perspective, his invincibility is really the only defense he needs. As for his attack, he can summon frigging meteors to level entire armies and cities if he wants. Without Dragonrend to use against him, there's no hope for anyone. Period. It's his brown note. It's his kryptonite - and nobody alive remembers how to use it. That's what makes the Dragonborn badass. He can use the Elder Scroll to peer back in time, and use his Dragon blood to instantly learn a shout he sees used. No mortal Tongue could do that. That's the one and only reason Alduin was driven back to Sovngarde where he could be ganged up on and killed.

So it's not really fair to say he wasn't powerful enough. He was. He was literally invulnerable. The reason he's so weak when he gets hit by Dragonrend is because it makes him something far less than he originally was. It renders him mortal, and afraid. His HP in "god mode" might as well be infinite.

Archer wrote:

Unionhack wrote:It really undermined the 'epic final showdown' feeling that I really wanted from a final boss.

Yeah, ES games have gotten into that habit as of late, haven't they? Think about it, Oblivion didn't even have a boss fight.

Mankar Cameran was the boss fight.

Br3admax wrote:

Archer wrote:

Unionhack wrote:It really undermined the 'epic final showdown' feeling that I really wanted from a final boss.

Yeah, ES games have gotten into that habit as of late, haven't they? Think about it, Oblivion didn't even have a boss fight.

Mankar Cameran was the boss fight.

I killed Cameran very easily, and I play with the difficulty slider halfway between very easy and very hard.

Alduin can eat the planet, including your favorite Frost Giant. Don't let game mechanics fool you.

I guess eveeyone else had a much easier time than I did with Alduin. Also Karstaag wasn't that tough for me, even though I fought him at a higher difficulty than Alduin.

Also, can someone try it in the game and report back with results?

I'm sure they could, but I can guess exactly how that would work - if you hit Alduin with Dragonrend and summon Karstaag's ghost, the summon will make quick work of the Dragon. That's my guess. It would happen very easily on Adept or any lower difficulty.

Br3admax wrote:Alduin can eat the planet, including your favorite Frost Giant. Don't let game mechanics fool you.

Well, I was thinking in mechanics terms.
Of course the alleged firstborn of the Timegod destined to devour the universe would take down a 15-foot-tall Furby.