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Hi,

I remember myself purchasing Skyrim right after 0:00 11.11.11, driving home and starting the game at 2:00, playing to 3:00 and going to sleep with great feeling that I've got it.

It is quite some time from that night and recently (~month) I started playing Morrowind again (like I did at least 100 times ago) and I want to finish the game now (it would be my first time ).

When I play this bug-filled game, I realize that Bethesda probably thinks of us (players) that we are completely stupid.

Morrowind is really complex game (I like that). Oblivion was more mainstream-like, it was cut down compared to Morrowind, but it brought us some great news (and less bugs). Skyrim is superb in graphics and something I would call "wow effect". It is great in background (lore) and even at foreground (characters, places, ...), but it's totally mainstream and Bethesda basically tells to hardcore players "This game is not for you". At least that is what I think now.

Why I'm writing all this? Because I read at UESP mainpage that second DLC is on its way and that 1.7 patch brought to PS3 players (-> to me) mounted combat. What the hell is Bethesda telling me by all this? I haven't bought even first DLC and I don't want to even try mounted combat (in fact, I don't have 1.7 patch yet). This is because I don't want to insert blu-ray with the game to PS3 again (at least any time soon). I have started some weird character in Oblivion just to see it again, and even Oblivion, which is really cut down compared to Morrowind, is better than Skyrim. Skyrim looks almost like arcade game to me. Yes, it is complex, probably more complex than Oblivion (world, dungeons, enemies, ...), but quality of the game (playtime, overall) is dropping there. I want to play older games instead of Skyrim.

And I have to say - dear Bethesda, you can't count with me in the future. I will probably buy next game from TES series, but I'm afraid of playing it, if there won't be any change.

Anyone has it the same?

EDIT: I have to add some info to my post.

Skyrim - Every faction has some kind of HQ and is centralized.

Oblivion - MG is scattered and specialized in each place and has HQ, FG not like that, TG not like that with fences, DB kinda centralized, ...

Morrowind - Who played, knows. Who had not chance to play -> Each factions has their "offices" in some towns and you could start almost anywhere you wanted, follow any quest you wanted. Each faction had tons of quests to complete, not like in Skyrim, where you have to do 10-15 quests to be the best.

Skyrim's replayability is severely lacking when compared to its predecessors. I'm not even entirely sure why this is the case, but it's definitely missing something. The oldskool touch?

legoless: Yeah, lacks replayability. That's it, probably.

The question would be - Why?

Races - Only some minor bonuses there (np being what you want with any race you want)
Factions (guilds) - No (pre)requisities. You can join any of them and (almost) all at once
Leveled whatever - "You will probably have better (standard) sword at level 20 than this unique artifact you obtained at level 10" and better one "You shouldn't be afraid of going there, there is nothing stronger than you in that dungeon"
Quest selection - "You will do it in this order and you don't have any chance to do anything with it"

I enjoyed the game with my second character (pure mage, specialized, difficulty 4/5), but I got quickly bored by it. The same quests, the same people, the same locations in the same order. Well, I haven't played Skyrim for at least 2 months now. It's simply boring. Even more than Oblivion - and I played that really much and I know really much about it - even so, I want to play it again more than Skyrim. And there are many quests in Skyrim that still awaits me. And will wait even longer.

I think part of the issue with replayability in Skyrim is how things respawn. It really hammers in the "seen one dungeon, seen them all" feel because there's just no incentive to check out random dungeons unless a quest has sent you there. In Morrowind, once you cleared out a dungeon, that was it. Sure, some critters like rats respawned, but the majority of the residents stayed dead, and the treasures stayed empty. Now, there's two issues with this. The first is that it removes the need to explore. In Skyrim and Oblivion, you can actually hit the same dungeon over and over again for more loot (And in fact I recall having some dungeons I hit routinely, either because it had a nice short route to the boss chest, or just because it had enemies I preferred the drops of). The second issue is that having a dungeon remain empty was useful for RP purposes. You could actually take it upon yourself to ride out into the countryside and take care of the bandit menace plaguing Seyda Neen, and they'd stay gone instead of popping back in three days. In addition, it was perfectly possible to live in a cave, or a tomb, or a daedric ruin if you so pleased. Heck, I made a habit of clearing out the dunmer strongholds, and turning them all into one humongous interconnected mansion/transport. You could steadily work your way into Red Mountain, making each new stronghold you take down into a new basecamp. I mean, not that you NEED to do that since Morrowind is a pretty easy game, especially if you know where to find some sweet loot, but it's another example of how being able to actually clear dungeons opens up so many doors for roleplaying.

And one more thing I really hate in Skyrim (and I really loved in the first dungeons I explored) - shortcuts. You can count with them in every single dungeon.There is no need going back the way you came in, you just "accidentally" stumble upon the door that leads you right next to exit from the dungeon...

No, this game is not that great. It's just for masses. Even one eyed, one legged chicken could probably play it.

Oblivion was also like that, but it still had some things from Morrowind (especially levelling system and attributes and skills). But it was cut down, eg. enchanting. Only at altar and only specified value for specified soul. This way, you could find better items that you could have made yourself... That's not good.

Morrowind may be full of bugs, hard for beginners, totally incomprehensible, bad at graphics, bad at travel (no fast travel), etc. But it was (and still is) the game I want to play. And as I said before, I have it like that even with Oblivion (which I finished only once and with totally tank character, not with my super-mage, that could 100% chameleon anytime and sneak kill anything).

I don't have it like that with Skyrim and I won't have it like that at least until new TES game is out. Presuming it will be worse than Skyrim (three games in a row have this tendency).

To clear myself - I'm not some random hater. I'm enthusiast player. I have preordered Oblivion and Skyrim, I was like a small kid awaiting the games, the first impressions was like "OMG, this game is totally awesome", after one month of playing, impressions was like "OMG, this game is better than I thought at the first time". But when I look at those games now after all those years (months - Skyrim), I can say, that they are not that good and I'm really afraid of another one...

Funny how people keep mentioning lack of fast travel in Morrowind. Between silt striders, boats, mage guild transportation and propylon chambers I found I could usually get pretty close to where I needed to be and didn't have to wander around all that much if I didn't feel like it.

p-sto wrote:Funny how people keep mentioning lack of fast travel in Morrowind. Between silt striders, boats, mage guild transportation and propylon chambers I found I could usually get pretty close to where I needed to be and didn't have to wander around all that much if I didn't feel like it.

Not to mention Almsivi/Divine Intervention and mark and recall. I'd argue that Morrowind's "fast travel" had the potential to be almost more detrimental than that of Oblivion or Skyrim simply because oftentimes you could "fast travel" from place to place if you knew what you were doing and, really, never needed to do a whole lot of walking (looking for the Urshilaku Camp and forays into Red Mountain aside). At least in later games you need to discover the location before you can travel to it.

i have played it for 250+ hours but it hasnt really sunk in much, but then again i play these games for the very long haul. Most of my TES5 observations and comparisons are with games (TES3 and 4) i played for 1000+ hour each

i think the dungeons are actually better designed and more varied than ever before, perhaps the loss of pernickerty detail has made it more accessible and less time intensive, but tbh i havent been spending nearly as much time just soaking up the game.. i seem to be on a roll of playing stuff as its released as dlc and then getting bored, so i need to start back in when i want it. Having said all that, i now have most of the achievements so the pressure is off to do this silly thing cos i'll earn 20 points, which is sometimes a distraction for me

this is the first TES game i have posted about on forum(s) whilst playing and tbh i think that fact alone sucked a lot of the life out of Skyrim for me. I'm taking a Skyrim break now, but plan on returning to it with new character etc in the winter and will probably need to take a uesp break then lol

morrowind's propylons, striders and interventions were the ryannair system of travelling lol..

I started a new Morrowind file a few nights ago. Morrowind simply has the most content and I think is just a better overall game experience.

p-sto wrote:Funny how people keep mentioning lack of fast travel in Morrowind. Between silt striders, boats, mage guild transportation and propylon chambers I found I could usually get pretty close to where I needed to be and didn't have to wander around all that much if I didn't feel like it.

There is fast travel, but I tend not to use it (even at Oblivion or Skyrim). I use only propylons, if I can get indexes.

Actually I love the way Morrowind tells you to move. I like describing quest location like "at the second crossroad turn right, after the third rock on your left side turn left, you'll come to the cave and your quest location is two caves south from there" (this should remind you of Temple quest Compassion).

And there is that spell - Levitate it is called, which is good for travel too. Not mentioning what others told about other spells.

Ahhh, the smell of elitism. Sure, Bethesda could put together a game for "hardcore" players that would please 12 people on the planet. And then they'd go bankrupt. Or, they could market a game that appeals to the "masses". And make a profit, which allows them to continue making games.

Look, I'm not apologizing for Bethesda. Skyrim is an incredibly buggy and poorly stitched-together game. As were Oblivion and Morrowind. The real shame here isn't that Bethesda has gone deeper into the mainstream, it's that Bethesda seems like it can't be bothered to build more robust games.

Pavouk106 wrote:Actually I love the way Morrowind tells you to move. I like describing quest location like "at the second crossroad turn right, after the third rock on your left side turn left, you'll come to the cave and your quest location is two caves south from there" (this should remind you of Temple quest Compassion).

That's another thing I miss from Morrowind. In addition,it seemed like it was actually easier to follow such directions, I recall there being more in the way of landmarks. I also recall there being less damn mountain climbing. Both Oblivion and Skyrim had many occasions where my choices were to either circle around the entire landmass until I found the road leading up, or search for that magical section of rock where I can go up a little further. Part of this was that while there were mountains, a lot of my dealings with them were in the valleys surrounding them rather than on top of them. The second deal was that the type of directions given in Morrowind would lead you to the route you need to take, unlike in Oblivion or Skyrim where you're just given a map marker that fails to tell you of the 50 foot cliff between that fast travel destination that looked close, and your quest destination.

I like Skyrim , but it isnt very replayable ( trust me , ive been forced to start over twice ) , the quests are too short , the factions have weak storylines , and the characters are slightly tedious , but the dungeons were very enjoyable , the environment is fairly fun to explore , and the gameplay itself was fun .

Morrowind is highly overrated , Oblivion was much better , so i do feel like replaying Oblivion once more ...

i've been playing skyrim for the past 10 months.

not replayable? you're lying.

I love all of the Modern TES games (III-V). And they are all re-playable. However, they each had their inherent flaws about them that made each a hard game to replay once the other came out. Morrowind... dice role combat, run slower than you walk, and cliff racers.
Oblivion... ugly faces, flat landscape, lame voice actors, leveled system has many flaws.
Skyrim... too welcoming. I mean you have a friend in the first 5 seconds of the game. In TES III and IV you at least need to earn the trust and respect of people. Then when you get a home it gives the players a completion feeling (similar to reaching the last rank in an FPS game) that makes the game feel like there isnt really anything left to do.

As long as you avoid the "drag" elements in each game, the replayability is ridiculous.

X086573 wrote:i've been playing skyrim for the past 10 months.

not replayable? you're lying.

If you say so ,i have also been replaying since it came out,but i was forced to start over , so maybe thats why i disagree

philfredobob wrote:Morrowind is highly overrated

You're not the first who tells that. But who said it is overrated? Players? Why is it overrated? I just think it is the real RPG as it should be, hard to understand, hard to play (maybe because difficulty, maybe because it is what it is, if you understand me), sometimes player gets crazy playing it...

Oblivion is great too, it still has many RPG elements and it's more friendly to players and still complex enough for hardcore players.

Skyrim? I don't think so. I mean there are many great things, but much more not-so-great ones.

I'm gonna play Morrowind now. Will check back before going to sleep

Pavouk106 wrote: I'm gonna play Morrowind now. Will check back before going to sleep

i never played Morrowind to help me sleep

Evil-i wrote:Ahhh, the smell of elitism. Sure, Bethesda could put together a game for "hardcore" players that would please 12 people on the planet. And then they'd go bankrupt. Or, they could market a game that appeals to the "masses". And make a profit, which allows them to continue making games.

Look, I'm not apologizing for Bethesda. Skyrim is an incredibly buggy and poorly stitched-together game. As were Oblivion and Morrowind. The real shame here isn't that Bethesda has gone deeper into the mainstream, it's that Bethesda seems like it can't be bothered to build more robust games.

You sir have a voice of reason, actually that was my initial reaction, I never liked Morrowind very much and I prefered DA origins over oblivion, Morrowind imo is gray, drab, and ugly and filled with cliffracers

Skyrim has bad replayability if you build an all powerful character who maxes out thief, warrior, and mage skills.

Since there are no classes you can be a two-handed berserking orc-wizard with the softest lockpick fingers ever. You GOTTA roleplay to get the most out of Skyrim.
The more narrow the build of your roleplay, the better.
Then you will make decisions to avoid parts of the game which your character does not agree with (like Daedric quests)

I found myself using the Oblivion classes page to create a specific build a bit more complex than the warrior/mage/thief build, but way less complex than the "level 81 SuperDovahkiin" w all 100 skills.
Then, you leave some things for another playthrough.

Oblivion was the first TES game I played and because I spent more time playing it, it will probably always be my favorite. I like Skyrim almost equally though, the only thing I miss spell creation. Skyrim is a great game and it totally lived up to my expectations. Morrowind is my least favorite though, it was just such a pain in the ass to get anything done. Sure i wanted to finish the quest-lines, but that meant walking for 2 hours to say two words to gome guy in a shack and then kill three people back where I started. I did beat it, but only once. Hell I've only beat Skyrim twice and I've played for 1500+ hours, distractions.. Distractions everywhere..

Morrowind had a bunch of problems, and to me anyways I think its more of "its morrowind we cant hate it” then it being any good.

here is a few examples

voice acting\writing dialogue

in morrowind if you ask someone something they say what the next guy will, and the next guy, Skyrim or Oblivion would be TORN to shreds for doing this, in fact they WHERE, so much that it was one of the most listed "things that bug me" that I saw, while Morrowind had it, it was not the “End all be all” they where making it in the next two

Again back to voices, people got morrowin with voices and from that they wanted the voices to STAY, never improve, never mind the fact that in morrowind every generic that did speak had the same voice and many where badly recorded, it was GOOD, next two? Spawns of the devils some pepole say
Even when they did improve on how many voices actors, not by many but still an improvement
Skyrim a lot more and STILL its bad, and no one likes it morrowind was better where every single peson form the race spoke like that and said the same things, never mind that Skyrim is fully voriced etc

Then we have the ever popular “they should have this,. Thees game needs this or it sucks” when almost all of them where NOT in morrowind, but that’s okay because its morrowind


And one of my Favroites:
Magic system, they say the magic system sucks in oblivion and Skyrim because of a few reasons
some being “not a good spell system” (what ever that means)
The fact that magic is OP in both, never mind that morrowind magic puts both to shame with its OP'ness, its okay for morrowind magic to be op, but skyrim and oblivion? EVIL!!!@##@$@#$


Then one I cant stree enough

complaining about annoying creatures: You want to see the original? CLIFF RACERS
My God man, I HATTTTTTTTTTTE them so much, but people LIKE it, they “like” its annoying, EXCAT same problem as with the later two but once again, its in morrowind so its “good”


I'll repeat this again, people complain about creatures who are annoying in oblivion and skyrim and how it “ruins the game” but LIKE cliff racers

this one right here is all the proof I need to make my point, this ends the debate, and there can be no more, this is the proof no one can argue. (For those who cant take a joke don’t take this sentence serous)


My favorite, things people DID complain about in morrowind, and where changed

combat
running


all of these where changed based on complaints, and pepole did not like it when they changed it

combat, they hatted the fact you could miss a billion times in till you where lv 50 or so in a skill

make it where you never miss as long as you are aiming at them right, OH BOY ITS ON NOW

running: I don’t think anyone will ever deny that morrowinds running thing SUCKED at low levels, as in it is faster to walk in some ways

So they change it, not only do you go fast form day one but you alos don’t lose fatigue form that, again not exactly “perfect” I'll admit, but I'd say thats WAY better then walking every where when there is no fast travel, yes you could use exploits to stop that, but if your using those then... is not that feature bad? Since you don’t want to use it?
I HATTED having to walk and so they had not one, not two, not three, but FOUR other ways to get around, and its STILL not enough and you still have to walk around and find places, which if you dont get lost, is GREAT, but when like many your out there for hours looking for something trying to remeber where they said it was?

Morrowind is not perfect, none of them all, but I turlly 100% belive that if we could wipe our memorys some how, we would not see morrowind how we do, it has nothing to do with the "content" nothing to do with which is better, its 1000000% biased IMO, while true evreything is in liofe, this one takes the cake to the point where we are blinded to what is turly better, and no way to fix it cause which ever we play first will most likjely be the best.


Rant over, ah that felt sooooooo good

Imperfect Three: I miss more things in Skyrim. The difficulty of the game (technically) is way too low for me. It's absically so easy that almost my cat can play it too...

I miss the openness of the Morrowind and Oblivion in Skyrim. In everything - quests, spells, possibility of choice, disposition of NPCs, haggling, being superb in some way, difference between character builds (you can get this ONLY by RP, not technically in the game), ...

You may think I really dislike Skyrim, but you would be wrong in this. I really love weapon/armor making, I like graphics, lore, ... But I like older TES games more.

Wolfie: Only to remind you of some facts - Morrowind came out at 2002 and was probably one of the biggest RPGs out there (concerning world, count of NPCs, count of almost whatever). It was distributed on 1 CD with TES Construction set along. Where would you put all those voices we have in IV and V? Remember, DVDs were not so popular and widespred as they are now...

You've got point in some of your complaints.
Combat system - IV and V has better
Magic system - I like "% to cast" more than "I can cast it, if I have enough magicka"
OP spells - You could do that, but you had to work on it; you had the cance not to do that
OP enchanting - the same
Cliffracers - I hate them, you just run around and poof, there are 3 of them right behind you... every 2 minutes!
Memory wipe - Yeah, you're right. Who never played III and played IV and V, this person would never ever play Morrowind. Not even being tortured to do so.

You go Wolfie, while I haven't played Morrowind I honestly can't see a game released in 2002 being so much better than a game released in 2011. The way some people go on about Morrowind it's like it's the Holy Grail of gaming.

Mr.Argonian wrote:You go Wolfie, while I haven't played Morrowind I honestly can't see a game released in 2002 being so much better than a game released in 2011. The way some people go on about Morrowind it's like it's the Holy Grail of gaming.

i Couldnt agree more ...