I keep seeing references to this 'CHIM' everywhere - it's always capitalised, and I feel like a noob for not knowing what it is!
Has it got something to do with the Chim-el Adabal - the big-ass diamond in the middle of the Amulet of Kings, signifying the covenant between Akatosh and mankind? From what I've seen it sounds like something transcendental - something to do with this 'Dreamsleave' perhaps? Or is it like the Elder Scrolls - does nobody exactly know?
Your help would be appreciated
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:01 am
by Arokel
I would like to know as well. I have read about it but what I read doesn't really make much sense.
CHIM is a state of being that exists above pretty much everything.
It is obtained when one realizes that everything is the dream of the godhead, and thus the realization that everything is connected to everything else via the dream, and thus nothing is by itself, or an individual.
After realizing that you are everything, and everything is you, via the dream of the godhead, one then stands up and proclaims I AM, that you are still who you are, an individual, despite the realization that you aren't anything.
When one finds CHIM they can alter the world to their pleasing, they can bring themselves back to life after death, and they, in simple terms, gain access to the construction kit.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:12 pm
by Vigrtor Blood-Tears
Supplementary question: what does CHIM stand for, if anything? Any real reason that it's an all-caps word?
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:57 pm
by SajuukKhar
CHIM is the secret symbol of royalty, and means royalty, starlight, and high splendor. The Amulet of Kings is called the Chim-el Adabal, the Kings Amulet.
It being in all caps is because it is a word from the Ehlnofex language, and all Ehlnofex words are in all caps.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:20 pm
by Tomlikesunicorns
Trelares, SajuukKhar, thank you
I'm also glad that other people are in the same boat as me xD
I suppose it's similar to when you're in a dream, and you realise you're dreaming, and so you can control it. Except in this instance, the dream you inhabit is the dream of 'the Godhead'... this probably demeans it somewhat, but you get where I'm coming from
Also, is Ehlnofex the singular form of Ehlnofey (the plural, therefore)?
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:10 pm
by SajuukKhar
Ehlnofex is just the name of the language, not the singular version of the word Ehlnofey, as far as I know.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:20 pm
by Vigrtor Blood-Tears
Danke, Sajuuk.
That's actually a really good analogy Tom.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:27 pm
by Br3admax
SajuukKhar wrote:CHIM is a state of being that exists above pretty much everything.
It is obtained when one realizes that everything is the dream of the godhead, and thus the realization that everything is connected to everything else via the dream, and thus nothing is by itself, or an individual.
After realizing that you are everything, and everything is you, via the dream of the godhead, one then stands up and proclaims I AM, that you are still who you are, an individual, despite the realization that you aren't anything.
When one finds CHIM they can alter the world to their pleasing, they can bring themselves back to life after death, and they, in simple terms, gain access to the construction kit.
It's the reason using the CK and console is not game breaking.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:51 pm
by Tomlikesunicorns
Cheers Vigrtor and so the Ehlnofey spoke Ehlnofex, gotcha :3
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:23 pm
by Vigrtor Blood-Tears
You could almost thus describe CHIM as: Lucidity in the dream of the Godhead? Perhaps?
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:06 pm
by Tomlikesunicorns
And the Godhead is this way in which every living thing is in some way joined together - a kind of universal one-ness maybe? I suppose that's as simple as it's going to get
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:12 pm
by Pilaf The Defiler
CHIM is only ever mentioned hidden deep within texts in game, so far. The two examples I know of are in the Lessons of Vivec when Molag Bal teaches it to him as the secret symbol of royalty. The other is a reference in Mankar's Commentaries. Both of these works are written by MK, who further elaborates on the term in this out of game source:
Spoiler:
The basis for the teachings of the Prophet Veloth, founder of present day Morrowind and father of Dunmeri culture. Veloth describes the Psijic Endeavor as a process of glorious apotheosis, where time itself is bent inward and outward into 'a shape that is always new'. Those who can attain this state, called chim, experience an ineffable sense of the godhead, and escape the strictures of the world-egg.
It should be noted that, while Veloth is given credit for establishing the anti-laws that govern the Endeavor, this process has its antecedents in the teachings of the Black Hands Mephala, Boethiah, Azura, Trinimac, and, of course, Lorkhan, through that lord's association with PSJJJJ.
What is "chim"?
From the Ehlnofex: an ancient sigil connoting 'royalty', 'starlight', and 'high splendor'. As with most characters of that dangerous language, the sigil CHIM constantly distorts itself. Those scholars that can perceive its shape regard it as a Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration.
Representations of the chim, and by extension the Psijic Endeavor, are always protean values, such as the anumidi models renowned by the Dwemer, the Scarab of contemporary astrolothurges, and the Striking ("exact egg-cracking") of old Argonia. All of these representations possess an innate and constant aspect of transformation.
What is the purpose of the Psijic Endeavor?
To transcend mortal boundaries set in place by immortal rulers. At its simplest, the state of chim provides an escape from all known laws of the divine worlds and the corruptions of the black sea of Oblivion. It is a return to the first brush of Anu-Padomay, where stasis and change created possibility. Moreso, it the essence needed to hold that 'dawning' together without disaster. One that knows CHIM observes the Tower without fear. Moreso: he resides within.
I am confused. What is the relationship of the Psijic Endeavor and the Tower?
Ah. Because from within one, you may regard the other.
That helps little. What examples of the Psijic Endeavor exist today?
The world you stand on is said to be the first attempt at chim. It is also admittedly the most famous. That it was choreographed by Lorkhan and ultimately failed is well-documented, but whether or not this failure was intentional is still disputed.
Wait. Why would anyone want to purposely fail the process of CHIM?
And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems?
Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:19 pm
by Poohunter
SajuukKhar wrote:CHIM is a state of being that exists above pretty much everything.
It is obtained when one realizes that everything is the dream of the godhead, and thus the realization that everything is connected to everything else via the dream, and thus nothing is by itself, or an individual.
After realizing that you are everything, and everything is you, via the dream of the godhead, one then stands up and proclaims I AM, that you are still who you are, an individual, despite the realization that you aren't anything.
When one finds CHIM they can alter the world to their pleasing, they can bring themselves back to life after death, and they, in simple terms, gain access to the construction kit.
That's deep :O
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:33 pm
by Anonymous98223
Does CHIM have any connection to the afterlife? Do gods have CHIM?
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:46 pm
by SajuukKhar
A being with CHIM can never really die, their mortal body may be destroyed, but their spirit is unkillable.
Also the neither the Aedra, or Daedra, have CHIM. Although, several Daedra, such as Azura, and Molag Bal, apparently know of CHIM, and, according to Vivec, the Aedra supposedly gave up their lives, and failed at finding CHIM, on purpose, so that others could find CHIM themselves.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:50 pm
by Pilaf The Defiler
Anonymous98223 wrote:Does CHIM have any connection to the afterlife?
More like the beyond life. CHIM isn't a place you go when you die. It's a state you become that's beyond life or death.
Do gods have CHIM?
That's an interesting question. Vehk's lessons seem to indicate the et'Ada cannot comprehend CHIM and fear it as an alien and horrific concept, and yet he learned the symbol from Molag Bal.
Of course, knowing the symbol doesn't mean Bal actually understood the meaning or had the ability.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:10 am
by Arokel
Br3admax wrote:It's the reason using the CK and console is not game breaking.
So I and my fellow console players can never achieve CHIM lol.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:24 am
by Minor Edits
SajuukKhar wrote:The Amulet of Kings is called the Chim-el Adabal, the Kings Amulet.
On a semi-related noted, what is "Adabal"? From this context I assume it means "amulet", but what then, does "Adabal-a" mean? Holder of the amulet?
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:57 am
by SajuukKhar
I'm not entirely sure, but your reasoning makes sense.
I would say yes.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:59 pm
by ClottedCream
So what's the Godhead?
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:30 am
by Pilaf The Defiler
ClottedCream wrote:So what's the Godhead?
The Godhead was the first, and quickly split into Anu (Stasis) and Padomay (Change) whose interplay gave birth to First Spirits, Akatosh and the others, who in turn had Convention and created Nirn - except the Daedra who didn't participate.
That's the extremely edited version.
Vivec's teachings and other obscure out of game sources refer to existence as a dream by the Godhead. This is only ever hinted at even in the most obscure game sources. The Godhead isn't a concept that really gets brought up in the games at all.
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:57 am
by Tomlikesunicorns
If you could, Pilaf, or in fact anyone, could you explain how the Aedra actually created Nirn? I mean I've heard that they 'cut parts of themselves off' but what does this mean in a more literal sense? Has it got something to do with why they are rarely present in Nirn any more?
I know this is all debatable and somewhat conjectural but I'd just like to know
Re: What even is CHIM? :O
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:11 am
by Br3admax
They literally cut pieces of their bodies off, the planetery pieces fused together with Lorkhan's heart as the glue.
and so the Ehlnofey spoke Ehlnofex, gotcha :3