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Deandra wrote: But what's this about your RPs not counting as art? Just because it's not printed and bound doesn't mean it's not damn good writing!

Frost Mage wrote:Deandra's right, RPing is a hugely artistic. It's a common misconception that because something is done on a computer, it's not art, whether it's drawing, writing, or even music. I wrote my new character last night on paper, and it felt more like art then when I was typing it up on a computer, so it's easy to do.

Frost Mage wrote:It's all about how you think about it, really.

Mars wrote:It's about what is considered art and what not. I don't consider RPing art, simply because it doesn't offer anything beyond personal enjoyment.

Frost Mage wrote:What about any other form of art? Isn't that only for personal enjoyment?

Mars wrote:That depends on whether you're a Phillister or not.

Art is anything that involves creativity in one form or another.

So if I make a fun little design on my cappuccino's foam milk that's art? Hmmm.

Mars wrote:So if I make a fun little design on my cappuccino's foam milk that's art? Hmmm.

Pretty much. Speaking of which... *makes a cappuccino*

Art is one thing, and anything really. What the real problem is artist taking critique, passing their flaws off as style, in my experience.

Spiney wrote:Art is one thing, and anything really. What the real problem is artist taking critique, passing their flaws off as style, in my experience.

It's hard to distinguish flaws from style, as they are both subjective, unless one admits to being flawed, of course.

Or its clearly flawed in one way and the artist is far too stubborn to admit to it.

One example, in college drawing class MED104: Fundamentals of drawing, the students who improved the least or scored the lowest were ones who would constantly come up with excuses for their failings.

Should also note our teacher was the lead artist of The Wild Thornberries movies, so no lack of experience there.

Spiney wrote:Art is one thing, and anything really. What the real problem is artist taking critique, passing their flaws off as style, in my experience.

Now that's a matter of perception. Flaws can be style, and style can be flaws, it depends who's looking at it. All art critique is personal opinion, you just have to choose whose judgement you trust enough.

Oh hey, I think I can actually contribute to this. Obviously personal opinion and yadda yadda

What is art. Art is a product meant to evoke a reaction out of an audience, be it entertainment, enjoyment, positive or negative emotion... you get the idea. It starts as a vision or intention which guides the creative process. The audience is then exposed to the resulting product through whatever means of perception is appropriate and they garner an experience out of that which eventually results in the reaction. I've seen a lot of arguments about artistic intent or "what the artist intends you to experience" but that intent has no bearing on how the audience perceives it, as the artist is the only person whose experience can be dictated by that intent. "Art" is by no means ever truly "finished" however, as an artist always has the option of going back to the product and changing or improving it in some way to better suit their intent.

Then you get into artistic endeavors such as carpentry, pen&paper role-playing, architecture.... These things are artistic (like art), yes, but they are not art as their purpose has nothing to do with an audience. RP things in particular, while incredibly fun to be part of, are an exclusive activity. While any of us can go to the RP board and read what's going on, ultimately what the players are doing only involves them and we as people who are not participating are as much an audience to them as a coworker that constantly peeks into your cubicle.

That said, RP games can be designed as art. I wouldn't liken it to a video game, more like a movie. But it would require an intent on the part of the GM to include the audience in the creative process (not necessarily letting the audience give input into the creation itself but keeping in mind that the game as it happens is meant to be viewed by an audience rather than just played by the people directly involved).

i'd think of it this way- Art is viewed differently by everyone, the the eyes of the beholders have differing views and thats ok cause dissent is necessary

THIS IS MY ELECTRONIC PRESS KIT!!

Frost Mage wrote:Deandra's right, RPing is a hugely artistic. It's a common misconception that because something is done on a computer, it's not art, whether it's drawing, writing, or even music. I wrote my new character last night on paper, and it felt more like art then when I was typing it up on a computer, so it's easy to do.

At first I was like



But then I was all




The only thing worse than an unsophisticated understanding of art, is a sophisticated understanding of art. If someone's sole criteria for whether a thing constitutes "art" is that you can print it out and hang it on the fridge, who am I to dissuade you? At least that way, "art" won't undermine you and lead to all sorts of horrible social and philosophical lifestyle choices.

Shine on, you crazy diamond!

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

If roleplaying is beautiful and extraordinary to you, it's art. . for you. But to me, this isn't art:

"He walked over to his friend and said, 'Hello.' "

Personally, this is not detailed, expressive writing. This is not the creation of something that could be perceived aesthetically or mentally pleasing. This does not make me consider anything more than a bland indifference. Roleplay is for enjoyment and immersion into a certain topic you enjoy . . i.e. the Elder Scrolls. You create a character, normally, and let them interact with other characters which certainly could bring out your creative, artistic side, but just because you wrote a good, detailed, believable character (which I honestly haven't seen in the Roleplays I've been in . . . not to be rude, of course. I just see a lot of stick figures that want to bang. don't hurt me. ) . . . that doesn't mean you're an artist. You may be expressing yourself via writing, but you aren't (normally) making anything special.

My definition of art is pretty broad, but even I don't think most RPing is what I would consider to be Art. You know, something done with creativity that elicits an real response in people. My point was more that it isn't the fault of the medium here. If you are a talented writer and put in some effort, you can totally produce art in a RP.

The vast majority of things produced with a pencil and piece of paper have no artistic value whatsoever. Notes, grocery lists, bored doodles--all things best thrown in the nearest recycling bin. But of course we all know that people have produced fantastic works with just these two items.

Deandra wrote:The vast majority of things produced with a pencil and piece of paper have no artistic value whatsoever.

"It's said that everyone has a book in them... and for the most part that's where it should stay." - C. Hitchens

Art teach asked us this question during freshman year, so I gave her my paraphrase of Tolstoy: "The goal of art is to cause the viewer to fall in love with life in all of its manifestations, which are endless." Which is not quite as good as the original, but she still almost swooned as she read it aloud.

I suppose I'm in the camp that thinks art is a collaborative enterprise between the artist and the audience. After a work is shared, the interpretation, the meaning, and certainly the "value" are no longer in the hands of the artist. In many cases people attach artistic value to material the original creator had no intention of being art; accidental art, found art, etc. abounds.

Art is what people in general mean when they use the word in practice.

I guess I'd summarise art as an expression of creative ability. Good art is a whole different story however.

Veck wrote:Good art is a whole different story however.

That's subjective.

Frost Mage wrote:

Veck wrote:Good art is a whole different story however.

That's subjective.

subjective is the worst thing has ever happened to you. You use that word in every defense. Shh Shh, Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm just saying, you can have your opinion, but "good art", I need more than that.

Hmm ... I think in English we probably have too few words for 'art'

I think if an artist is trying to convey something to an audience, I think the artist is practicing the art of communication - same for the observer trying to understand what the artist meant in their creation. If an observer is moved by the sight of a natural creation like a flower or doe, they're practicing the art of appreciating beauty. The point is - different people have different views of what is art, and it's difficult to discuss because we only have one word. I view art as a profound process; the objects created - if any - are secondary.

I think if someone is writing RP, the process can certainly be art - both in the art of fantasy and visualization, and then the art of communicating the visualization over a different medium in a way that others might participate. And then it takes art for the reader to receive that communication

Dammit, now I can't stop headbanging. Thanks, OP.
Although, yeah it counts as art.

My opinion of art is something that lasts through the ages and can be enjoyed by people for centuries or longer such as Stonehenge or The Mona Lisa. I guess you could claim that music and whatnot is art as well but to me it's more or less glorified poetry which is just language.

So... a culinary masterpiece can't count as art?

I would say language is art based on your own definition, Travalanche.