UESP Forums

Yep. Finally, after some 196 hours of dodgy Skyrim gameplay, using the latest v1.5.26.0.5 patch, Unofficial Skyrim Patch and various bugfix mods, UESP Wiki's quest walkthroughs for advance notification of bugs/glitches and how to work around them using console commands, I've reached a point where I'm utterly stuck because there's NO workaround for a quest glitch.

I'm talking about the College of Winterhold quest, Revealing the Unseen, which won't update from objective Report to Savos Aren to the next objective Reach Ancanco. However, the scene continues, the Eye of Magnus "explodes", Savos Aren dies, Mirabelle tells me to find him, and Revealing the Unseen is completed. But the next quest, Containment, never starts. As a result, Aren's corpse is lying outside and everyone behaves as if he's still alive.

I've been through the HUGE Dwemer Ruin of Mzulft four times now, aligned the Oculory, talked to the Synod guy trying every combination of his dialogue options, talked to Aren and Mirabelle trying every combination of theirs, and EVERY time the quest glitches in the same place. The objective Report to Savos Aren is never completed, so the College of Winterhold storyline is about 2/3 of the way through and CAN'T be completed.

I won't waste any more time on a game where ANY major quest storyline could bork itself into "oblivion" at ANY time and force me to lose dozens, possibly hundreds, of hours of progress or restart from scratch, HOPING something else won't go horribly wrong because I unwittingly did something out of sequence in the 1st hour of gameplay and won't find out until some 200 hours later when the "bomb" finally drops.

I'd fix Revealing the Unseen myself, but the Creation Kit is SO badly designed that it's utterly illogical and ridiculous to even attempt to use it. Determining any sequence of quest stages, start/completion conditions and script execution order is a total nightmare of hunting through multiple dialog boxes with no obvious connection between them. Whoever programmed this mess is a sadist who never intended it to be at all user-friendly.

Bethesda are very good at creating huge expansive beautiful virtual worlds to explore, but useless at making the mechanics of them actually work. Their vision far exceeds their ability to realise it. I bought Skyrim a month ago. The user interface is a joke even with SkyUI installed, I've had numerous random CTD's and lockups, seen Dragons circling ever higher without attacking, Mammoths and Elk levitating then falling, had Dragon skeletons falling out of the sky, Horses rocketing off sideways when I dismount, NPC's getting stuck forcing me to Sprint at them to bump them so they'll get unstuck and go where they're supposed to, and bugs in MAJOR storyline quests that render them uncompletable.

I've spent 10 years of my life trawling for utilities and mods to fix games that shouldn't have needed fixing in the first place (Morrowind, Oblivion and now Skyrim). I'm sick of wasting my time so that's it. Decision made for my own sanity. I have ZERO faith in Bethesda to EVER release a game that's not bugged to hell OR fix anything that's wrong, and I'm not willing to wait years for the Unofficial Skyrim Patch authors to eventually fix things FOR them. I'm finished with Elder Scrolls and will NEVER buy another Bethesda game.

I'm going back to playing games I KNOW I can enjoy without encountering major game-breaking bugs, like Crysis 1 & 2, Far Cry 1 & 2, Doom 3, Quake 4, etc. Sorry folks, but this means I'm leaving UESP. I simply can't face getting depressed reading other people's numerous problems and knowing I have the same problems and can't fix them.

I feel your frustration, H8Ball. It seems that the values of professionalism and doing a job well are dead in modern society.

But, come on man. Skyrim might be dead to you, but you know you'll be taking Oblivion out of mothballs before too long.

H8Ball wrote:...Sorry folks, but this means I'm leaving UESP...

I actually teared up a bit when I read that. I hate when people leave...
Still, I respect and understand your reasons and frustrations.

I'm buried more Elder Scrolls characters than I have raised. But that hasn't reduced me to a sociopathic semi-homicidal manifestation of darkn— wait...

... never mind.

Sorry folks, but this means I'm leaving UESP

Is this^ you begging to get slapped? I completely understand from where you're coming from but this is highly unnecessary.

[...]Crysis 1 & 2, Far Cry 1 & 2, Doom 3, Quake 4[...]

I never figured you for a FPS player

You mean you didn't quit the game when you realised every quest was a boring fetch quest anyway?

I won't be taking Oblivion out of mothballs, or reinstalling Morrowind. I didn't really have the heart to continue playing Oblivion much after Skyrim was released and these forums exploded with bug reports. I REALLY felt sorry for the early adopters posting here for help. And Oblivion hasn't even been run ONCE since I heard about the Skyrim v1.2 patch causing Dragons to fly backwards. What a cockamamie mess that was. Bethesda had to release a patch to patch a patch. They should feel ashamed!

OK, I caved in and bought Skyrim after the v1.5 patch came out and I saw the long bugfix list. But it's NOWHERE near long enough. After a month of seeing glitches, suffering crashes and freezes, and fighting the blatantly obvious main storylines stuff that HASN'T been fixed, the final straw was not being able to progress the College of Winterhold storyline any further. All of this, coupled with wondering what else would go wrong and thinking back over 10 years of similar frustrations with the entire ES series, has decimated any faith I had in Bethesda games full-stop, and any desire to play them.

I've just enjoyed several hours of utterly frustration-free Crysis gameplay, butter-smooth at 40fps+ and not a stutter, bug or crash in sight. And it looks better than Skyrim to boot. Same thing with Crysis 2, which looks gorgeous in full-blown DirectX 11, almost like a live-action HD movie. Bethesda should take "basic game engine programming 101" lessons from Crytek. Now THERE'S a company who produce top-quality games with leading-edge graphics! Ah, bliss!

Sorry guys, but Bethesda has lost a loyal customer for good. I hope they're happy. Skyrim is now shelved pending a complete Unofficial Skyrim Patch, which will likely take several years to develop like the Unofficial Oblivion Patch did, and NOT by Bethesda who I just don't trust to find their backside with a map, OR even by sitting on it. And there's no logical reason to post on a forum when I don't play the games any more. I might be back, but probably not for a few years.

I apologise for leaving, but I just can't face becoming more and more frustrated/depressed watching the mess unfold and not having a working game as a basis to help anyone. I'd rather be a happy gamer playing games that actually WORK reliably. RPG-wise, I'll probably go back to playing my first RPG love, Dungeon Master (released in 1987 by FTL Software). Almost 25 years old and looks VERY primitive, but at least there are NO holes you could orbit a planet through! They CARED about bug-free software in those days, see?

On a last note, I actually got a brief laugh from the game-ending bug that killed Skyrim for me. I tried moving the corpse of Savos Aren (the Arch Mage) around to see if dropping it somewhere else or "showing it" to someone would somehow trigger the Containment quest. I was dangling it literally in Mirabelle's face and she kept saying "Don't bother the Arch Mage unless it's important." The sheer illogical affront of that made me scream "IMPORTANT? HE'S DEAD!!! LOOK! SEE CORPSE DANCE! DANGLY DANGLE BOUNCY BOUNCE!" And then I started cynically laughing at my own pointless diatribe.

By all means slap me. Although then again, there's no need. I've already woken up from the nightmare.

So you agree H8ball that Bethesda has devolved into a money grabbing developer, trying to churn games faster at the expense of quality?

Would you agree that their developmental skills are sorely lacking? That they're somewhat behind technology wise using the same old Gamebryo engine as opposed to the other superior engines available today?

By all means slap me. Although then again, there's no need. I've already woken up from the nightmare.

Bravo

sleep on it h8ball, give it a few weeks

you know where we are, i optimistically look forward to seeing you back again

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person that hasn't encountered a game breaking bug...
Hell even the couple of CTD's I've had were mod related. Am I just lucky or something?

Ditto. I have literally not found a single bug. Ever. Even the stuff I thought was a bug was actually completely fine.

No bugs here either.
Sorry to see you go h8Ball. but come on, you're like the most useful person here.
gods know what We'll do without you.

H8Ball wrote:I apologise for leaving, but I just can't face becoming more and more frustrated/depressed watching the mess unfold and not having a working game as a basis to help anyone. I'd rather be a happy gamer playing games that actually WORK reliably. RPG-wise, I'll probably go back to playing my first RPG love, Dungeon Master (released in 1987 by FTL Software). Almost 25 years old and looks VERY primitive, but at least there are NO holes you could orbit a planet through! They CARED about bug-free software in those days, see?

May I respectfully suggest Legend of Grimrock? It's a loving homage to the Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder games, and in most ways quite well done. I won't say it's perfect, but I haven't heard of any game breaking (or even noteworthy) bugs, and at $15, it's a pretty good deal.

Whenever I hear about victims of massive Skyrim bugs it always makes me think how others play the game.

I for one, like to find as many loopholes as I can and I try to push any game to its limits. I'm running Skyrim with 200+ mods (many of them game-changing) and I've yet to encounter a single bug. Yes, a single bug. The only bug I have ever encountered was on the Xbox 360 where my bounty didn't go away after paying the fine twice (but did on the third time). Hardly game breaking for me. I guess I am just extremely lucky.

I suggest you give Skyrim another chance after you have your fill with Crysis. If you want I can show you some nice Crysis 1 mods I used to use that really enhance gameplay

H8Ball wrote:Sorry folks, but this means I'm leaving UESP.

*slaps across the face*

Stop overreacting.

I'm not defending Bethesda here, but I would like to point out that Crytek makes linear (IMHO pretty boring) games with get-from-point-A-to-point B missions. Therefore it's much easier to keep their games bugfree. I don't think Bethesda should 'learn' something from them.

On top of that I have never experienced even one game-breaking bug in both Skyrim and Oblivion. It's sad that you're just extremely unlucky and that you can't enjoy these wonderful games like you should.

I've started subscribing to mods through the workshop and personally I'm very impressed with how un-buggy Skyrim is. I see you're on the PC - did you really have the dragons-flying-backward problem? I thought that was a console issue. I for one am friggen loving Skyrim - though it may be a matter of patience as I love daggerfall too

Jakarius321 wrote:I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person that hasn't encountered a game breaking bug...

It's not just you. I've only encountered one quest related bug, a couple of odd rendering/graphics issues, but nothing serious or that could not be fixed upon reloading a previous save.

Archea47 wrote:I see you're on the PC - did you really have the dragons-flying-backward problem? I thought that was a console issue.

I'm on PC, and I had it. It wasn't just for the consoles...

May you live long and prosper H8ball, though I don't think that I've come to you for help on anything technical, I thank you for all of the help you've given others. I also thank you for the many laughs that you've given me over the past year.

H8ball wrote:This would have made a good plot for a Monty Python film resembling The Holy Grail, if you ask me. Just replace the Mythic Dawn with the Knights of Ni, the Daedra with killer rabbits, Lord Dagon with a giant pink foot, and have John Cleese as a french-accented Jauffre shouting from the battlements, "I fffffart in your general direction! You nasty Daedric Kerrrrrniggets!"

It is my hope that you find your way back here, because I know atleast one seventeen year old that will miss you and your contributions.

Abel wrote:I'm not defending Bethesda here, but I would like to point out that Crytek makes linear (IMHO pretty boring) games with get-from-point-A-to-point B missions. Therefore it's much easier to keep their games bugfree. I don't think Bethesda should 'learn' something from them.

On top of that I have never experienced even one game-breaking bug in both Skyrim and Oblivion. It's sad that you're just extremely unlucky and that you can't enjoy these wonderful games like you should.

If you are talking from Crysis 2 experience then I must tell you that that game is a very bad indicator or CryTek's abilities. IMHO Crysis 1 was the only true Crysis game, and it actually had a great sandbox feel to it (I've played through the first level almost 100 times, which each playthrough of it being roughly 60-100 minutes. Never gets boring, that game. That's not to say it didn't have bugs - but they were mainly physics/ai related, nothing game-breaking.

BUT when you compare it to Skyrim and its grandeous world and dept of characters (even though Crysis 1 had extremely good combat AI) I would have to agree that Skyrim's game system basically sets itself up for some inevitable bugs.

I personaly dont understand why some one can say Bethseda is money grabing and release games only to turn a profit, yes there are Gliches, but thats soley to the want to let players go any wich way, They dident have to let us cheat by scaling the side of a mountain, but they put the mechanics in there just to do it. Honestly if a game glitches yeah it sucks, but its not like FPS' That when storylined it gives you a quest you must folow, and that the developer then can just dictate the actions you will take along the course of a to b. A Game like skyrim You can start at a Go to c then D then B not have to folow one Liniar path. Bugs are our Pricew to pay for freedom.

comanderikari wrote:Bugs are our Pricew to pay for freedom.

Nonsense. Bugs kill freedom and bind you in a straitjacket.

this is exactly why I waited for the GOTY editions of both Morrowind and Oblivion and plan to do the same and (probably) hold out for the GOTY edition of Skyrim as well ...

and this ...

Dark Spark wrote:I'm buried more Elder Scrolls characters than I have raised. But that hasn't reduced me to a sociopathic semi-homicidal manifestation of darkn— wait...

... never mind.

was just hilarious ...

Evil-i wrote:

comanderikari wrote:Bugs are our Pricew to pay for freedom.

Nonsense. Bugs kill freedom and bind you in a straitjacket.

The truth^

It's not just you. I've only encountered one quest related bug, a couple of odd rendering/graphics issues, but nothing serious or that could not be fixed upon reloading a previous save.

You lucky b''''''ds.Every person that I know has experienced game breaking bugs in one form or another H8BALL being just the latest victim in a long list of premature "deaths".
Still I maintain my opinion that he's overreacting.