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I enjoyed the storylines in the guild quests, for the most part. However, I have a few issues with it.

Companion's Guild College of Winterhold Thieve's Guild Dark Brotherhood Over all, my huge issue is the lack of quests in the guild lines. For the most part, the stories were quality (I take exception with the Dark Brotherhood, however). I just felt that the rewards for the quests were unearned. The reward of being the after every quest is fine, but I'd like to feel like I've earned it. Or that I can actually do something with it after the fact.

Fixed.

Yeah, I fixed it!

There is plenty to do in Skyrim even if you want to just skip the main quests. This being the case, the lackluster guild quests doesn't bother me that much. Still, as compared to Oblivion and Morrowind the guilds in Skyrim are terrible. None of the guilds or guild related characters are engaging. I declined on completing the Thieves Guild, finished the College and Dark Brotherhood quests without any sense of loyalty or engagement and find the whole idea of the companions or bards so underwhelming that I have never done them.

You didn't like the guild characters? I liked all the characters, all we need are more quests.

I felt like all the guilds in the game had much more interesting back stories than the actual stories we participate in. Also, some things that happen are never explained or are done hastily, especially in the College.

It's not so much a matter of not disliking the guild characters as indifference due to lack of anything other than a superficial relationship. For example, a number of thieves guild members look promising but you never interact with them beyond basic conversation and maybe training. In Oblivion I felt I had a vested interest in Modryn, with a number of people in the Mages Guild and I even felt bad about killing everyone off in the Dark Brotherhood. Even years after last playing Morrowind I can remember how plots and relationships developed as the quests played out.

As commented upon by Pilaf, the back stories showed promise but never played out during the game.

I agree on mages guild

It felt like you were being tossed around the entire time

While that story could have made a good movie, it made a horrible major quest line for skyrim

Also, Thieves guild had a great build up, but then suddenly takes an abrupt turn followed by an abrupt end...

I've only completed DB and CoW so far - I'm saving the Companions for later, and not really interested in the Thieves.

I enjoyed both questlines, but I don't think they were quite up to the standards of the Oblivion quests, where the Dark Brotherhood storyline especially was genius.

CoW, while starting out well, felt like it progressed too fast, and like the OP, I never felt I'd earned the position I ended up in.

I actually enjoyed the DB questline a lot more than the Oblivion DB quests, and I thought the Skyrim sanctuary had more interesting characters in it. In Oblivion, you spend half of the questline on your own looking for notes, which I found less than thrilling.

In Oblivion, I grew to detest the MG questline because I repeated the first part of it on so many characters who just wanted to enchant stuff and craft spells. Thank goodness they didn't repeat that in Skyrim... but I agree the end seems forced. Well, in Oblivion felt forced, too. I felt so sorry for Raminus Polus when he totally should have been the one who becomes the arch mage.

I thought the college and the companions especially were too short.

I still prefer the Morrowind setup for guilds were you had to have one or two favored skills at a certain level to get the next rank of the guild, and the guild members would give you side quests to help out the guild in between doing the main guild quest and gaining the next rank. It felt less rushed and more deserving.

I had a similar issue with the actual main quest as well.

I do like that in Skyrim when you complete a guild's main questline, there are still radiant quests to do afterwards. Instead of the guild halls turning into big houses with a few mild perks like in Morrowind or Oblivion after their guild quest lines were completed, they still have some functionality in terms of quests in Skyrim (Although they do get old after a while).

But I think that they did "drop the ball" in regards to guilds. I too agree that, the quest lines were WAY too short and there wasn't a sense of accomplishment after completing them. It was over and done with before I could really get into the story behind the quest lines.
But overall I still enjoyed doing the guild questlines, despite their flaws.

Imperfect Three wrote:It seems like every time Bethesda improves the guild story-lines and characters people just complain more.
In Morrowind the guilds were alright, but the characters weren't engaging at all due to the amount of reading involved. Most people seem to just skip through everything because there was no 'Real' voice-acting.
So in Oblivion there was voice-acting for everything, the guild quests were shortened slightly, but still for the most part fun. The characters were memorable and the plots well-written. The only problem was the Dark Brotherhood which felt like a joke, an extremely evil guild of assassins seemed like normal everyday people who just happened to live underground in an abandoned shack.
Now in Skyrim the guilds are (For the most part) longer, enjoyable and full of very memorable characters and moments.
The companions quest-line was great ,it really gave off a feeling of honor.
The College of Winterhold, as short as it was, actually gave you several sequences that involved magic.
The Theives Guild was amazing and one of my favorite guilds in any Elder Scrolls game due to the actual need for stealth. It really has a lot of twists and turns compared to the other quest-lines.
Now, the Dark Brotherhood is being hated on by everyone, but I can't figure out why. It's been vastly improved since Oblivion, the characters are actually quite evil and sinister and they seem like people who could actually be assassins.
Even if some of the quest-lines are a bit too short at least they have radiant quests at the end that keep on going, it doesn't just end with "Huzzah, You're the Guildmaster, now have fun doing NOTHING!".
As much as everyone else may hate the guilds in Skyrim, I am content with the fact they they completely destroy the previous games.

P.S. Sorry about the rant there, all of the complaining about Skyrim is getting on my nerves a bit. Everyone was so excited that it was coming out and then they run into a single problem and suddenly it's completely terrible.

People will see it as the other way around.

Sure there was no voice acting in Morrowind but it's an old game. The quests were long and immersive and you got a real hang for how the guild functions. Plus there were more of equal longer length. By the time you became the leader, you dam felt like one.

While in the other games you just get slotted into the leader position by sheer luck almost.

So far I only finished the College of Winterhold questline. (I started main questlines after lvl20 only)
And I totally agree with all have been said about this questilne.

The Staff of Magnus part is outstanding But this story has been dashed off. There is a full background I would really have like to know. How come you can't know more about all this story?

Spiney wrote:

Imperfect Three wrote:It seems like every time Bethesda improves the guild story-lines and characters people just complain more.
In Morrowind the guilds were alright, but the characters weren't engaging at all due to the amount of reading involved. Most people seem to just skip through everything because there was no 'Real' voice-acting.
So in Oblivion there was voice-acting for everything, the guild quests were shortened slightly, but still for the most part fun. The characters were memorable and the plots well-written. The only problem was the Dark Brotherhood which felt like a joke, an extremely evil guild of assassins seemed like normal everyday people who just happened to live underground in an abandoned shack.
Now in Skyrim the guilds are (For the most part) longer, enjoyable and full of very memorable characters and moments.
The companions quest-line was great ,it really gave off a feeling of honor.
The College of Winterhold, as short as it was, actually gave you several sequences that involved magic.
The Theives Guild was amazing and one of my favorite guilds in any Elder Scrolls game due to the actual need for stealth. It really has a lot of twists and turns compared to the other quest-lines.
Now, the Dark Brotherhood is being hated on by everyone, but I can't figure out why. It's been vastly improved since Oblivion, the characters are actually quite evil and sinister and they seem like people who could actually be assassins.
Even if some of the quest-lines are a bit too short at least they have radiant quests at the end that keep on going, it doesn't just end with "Huzzah, You're the Guildmaster, now have fun doing NOTHING!".
As much as everyone else may hate the guilds in Skyrim, I am content with the fact they they completely destroy the previous games.

P.S. Sorry about the rant there, all of the complaining about Skyrim is getting on my nerves a bit. Everyone was so excited that it was coming out and then they run into a single problem and suddenly it's completely terrible.

People will see it as the other way around.

Sure there was no voice acting in Morrowind but it's an old game. The quests were long and immersive and you got a real hang for how the guild functions. Plus there were more of equal longer length. By the time you became the leader, you dam felt like one.

While in the other games you just get slotted into the leader position by sheer luck almost.

Yeah, you basically covered it. I honestly don't remember too much of Morrowind (despite doing almost everything there was to do in it) since I last played regularly a good 7+ years ago, but I remember length not being a problem at all. Things feel a little streamlined in Skyrim, like they basically tell you what to do and you just have to give it a gentle nudge and after 10 or so of these they crown you king and then never address you as such or give you any responsibilities or acknowledgement.

I admit I'm not done with the Dark Brotherhood yet, but the Companions, Mage's Guild and Thieves' Guild felt really short to me. Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood was EXCELLENT and I'm not really expecting them to top it, the story was high-quality and I felt like I knew every member of the Dark Brotherhood (excepting the ones who only showed up to die in the last 5 minutes I mean, obviously). It was intriguing and lengthy and had a great twist. In Skyrim I feel like the guild questlines are ending just as they're getting started, the Mage's Guild was especially short.

It's a little confusing, honestly, they add a lot of distinctive characters that I'd figure you get to know from a quest or three from each, but then it just ends.

... Actually on reading the original post that is being responded to here it sounds like you're kidding. The Dark Brotherhood from Oblivion was probably the best guild questline in any Elder Scrolls game to date. Now hold on a second, you said the guild questlines in Skyrim are LONGER? That's just flat-out untrue.

To respond to your point at the end, I really like Skyrim. It's an excellent game and I've been playing for over a week now with few signs of slowing.

My biggest complaints are 1) how easy it is to get to a point where there's not much left to do(I have more money than I'll ever need, so collecting items to sell is meaningless) and I'm so powerful almost nothing can stand up to me(on max difficulty btw), I didn't feel like this was a problem until recently, I remember early difficulty was really good and I had to play it safe to survive and 2) lacking guild questlines.

The Mages' Guild questline was criminally short, this should have been wayyy longer than it was and I ended up not really connecting with any of the characters (excepting Tolfdir somewhat, he seemed like an interesting character) and then I suddenly become Archmage despite having been made an Apprentice less than a week earlier(game-time, obviously).

The Companions' Guild suffered from some of the same problems, there were a plethora of characters with diverse personalities that we never really end up getting to know and the end-note was actually really similar to the Mage's Guild, but it made a bit more sense: The Thieves' Guild didn't feel as bad as the other two for length, but in the end it almost felt like I was just a spectator in someone else's story (which, admittedly, isn't a bad thing, it's telling a story after all). I didn't really connect with the characters that well (albeit I connected better than the other two, once again) and I couldn't really buy the 25 years ago bit, they all seemed rather youthful and events that had been unfurling for a quarter century suddenly plopping open and being resolved within a week is a little immersion-breaking for me. I didn't like how they basically set up Mercer as being a total badass only by constantly reminding me how skilled and amazing he is, despite never really doing or being that impressive.

The Dark Brotherhood is pretty interesting so far, but the kills feel kind of easy and I don't really have to set up anything that complex or interesting, I just have to find a person and kill them. The Oblivion Dark Brotherhood had a lot of varied and interesting, not to mention deep, quests. So far I haven't really found that to be the case. (Though once again I'm not done with the questline)

One thing I DO have to give Skyrim: the scenes they set up are quite impressive, the fight with Mercer in the room while he turns my allies against each other and turns invisible while creeping around on the only known statue of the ancestors of the Falmer which he just stole two very large, very valuable crystals from... and then the room starts flooding is QUITE a scene. The fight with Ancano with Magnus's Eye could have been a bit more interesting (transporting to a different realm, spawning fantastic beasts while in an Astral Plane-like realm would have been more interesting) but it wasn't bad overall.

Mr Pyjama wrote:So far I only finished the College of Winterhold questline. (I started main questlines after lvl20 only)
And I totally agree with all have been said about this questilne.

The Staff of Magnus part is outstanding

Spoiler:

when you follow the ghostly young Savos Aren and his companions.
You feel their fear, their distress.

But this story has been dashed off. There is a full background I would really have like to know.

Spoiler:

Why and how did Savos went to the Labyrinthian?
What really happened before and after?
What is his link and knowledge about the Staff of magnus?

How come you can't know more about all this story?

Oh, I nearly forgot about this! I agree, Labyrinthian was pretty impressive, the opening scene with the mages conversing with one-another and then taking on an undead dragon was A+, but once again it felt like I was getting cliffnotes. The characters just dropped off and ended up being kind of forgettable.

I think the biggest problem with the questlines is that they're point-to-point, I didn't real feel like I was experiencing an actual timeline of the quests, I felt like every time something happened I was just immediately there with no in-between. Another problem is that the other characters in the guilds feel really minor and unimportant. 95% of the guild characters have little to no role in any of the quests and when you're their leader they never even address you as such, so they end up being really forgettable and don't leave an impression of any kind.

I haven't played the other games so have nothing to compare against and while I would not say they "dropped the ball", the guild quests did feel a little rushed. Beyond "Do the Quests or Don't" only the Dark Brotherhood offered any real alternative. It was short, but at least it was there. I destroyed the DB but did so knowing I was missing out on some interesting stories. Couldn't flushing them out and hunting them down have been given more intrigue?

Then there is the Thieves Guild, where was the option to take them down? Given all the chatter you hear when entering Riften I fully expected to have to clean up the town. That left me sorely disappointed.

Jagged wrote:Then there is the Thieves Guild, where was the option to take them down? Given all the chatter you hear when entering Riften I fully expected to have to clean up the town. That left me sorely disappointed.

I completely agree actually, with everything I was hearing and experiencing when I first entered Riften and encountered the guild I was expecting an option to reform the guild. The early missions for the Thieves' Guild really come off as thuggish ruffians, rather than shadowy, mysterious thieves. I rather liked the Guild in Cyrodiil, I got the impression they had real honor and they really only stole from people in power, but in Skyrim I didn't get the impression any of them had much honor.

one thing i read recently in a Toddster interview, was that he thought 20-30 hours felt right as the length of a main plot, which imo is too short, but i think this thinking will be the root of a lot of fans' issues with lightweight and modular plotlines from Oblivion onwards, and probably effected the side quests

i am impressed with the more dynamic radiant quests, but i would have liked fewer but longer questlines.. i see no reason why the civil war and dragon stories couldnt have been combined, for example, ie the two stories actually leading towards a truly epic shenanigan..

and the mages plotline was at east two or three events/dungeons short of the epicness it promised.. after all we are averting the end of the universe/group/land in most of these stories

Mattbott wrote:one thing i read recently in a Toddster interview, was that he thought 20-30 hours felt right as the length of a main plot, which imo is too short, but i think this thinking will be the root of a lot of fans' issues with lightweight and modular plotlines from Oblivion onwards, and probably effected the side quests

Yeah, I'm not saying Morrowind was perfect, but if it did anything better than Oblivion/Skyrim, it was length. 20-30 hours comes off as good for an average RPG, but Bethesda is a heavyweight here, I'd hope for a little bit more.

Mattbott wrote:i am impressed with the more dynamic radiant quests, but i would have liked fewer but longer questlines.. i see no reason why the civil war and dragon stories couldnt have been combined, for example, ie the two stories actually leading towards a truly epic shenanigan..

Yeah, I enjoy stealing in the Thieves' Guild's radiant quests but it has gotten to be a little repetitive. It would be nice if we had to steal from some real dungeons or at least places with depth or threat when being detected. I've gotten sent to the same place twice in a row and it's one room : /. I wish you could specify greater difficulty quests or something, at level 70 collecting 500 gold worth of stolen loot is 2-3 items. I do actually have some difficulty locating the 3 hidden special valuables in the sweep quest(I always pick this despite it being more difficult with no greater reward) though, + points to whoever designed this thing , If only they could pick larger/deeper areas. Conditions would be nice too, like not being detected in a hostile area where I have to steal one piece of loot or finding the right piece of loot to steal.

Mattbott wrote:and the mages plotline was at east two or three events/dungeons short of the epicness it promised.. after all we are averting the end of the universe/group/land in most of these stories

Yeah, I think everyone's in agreement that the Mages' Guild questline was the shortest. It's a real shame because I come to these types of games looking for real length and depth and some arcane mystery and mysticism. I want to learn new and interesting things while picking up special spells that you can't find anywhere else.

Everyone seems to be in agreement that most of the quest lines were short, and I concur. It's one of the few disappointments I have with the game. I just wonder what they were doing. But part of that is that there's no real scale to these guilds. Instead of a branch in each major city, they each have one base and that's it, and that one base has as many people as one branch did in Oblivion. I feel lonely when I go to these places. There's not enough interaction with the world. The Companions only seem to operate out of Whiterun. The College only has about five interior spaces and they're stony and cold. Where's the dining room? Where's the character interaction?

While I love Skyrim, I agree that their work on the guilds feels like a step back. Having one centralised location only serves, weirdly, to make the place feel less homely. It's less like you get to be in control of an organisation and more like your reward is yet another house. And for the Arch-Mage, that house is a pretty echoey, cold house.

bushwhacker2k wrote:
Bethesda is a heavyweight here, I'd hope for a little bit more.

yes, i think they are starting to look at lesser competitors and what casual gamers are saying lol

set the trend, dont follow it

ok, so main quest might be 30 hours long but what about a secondary quest that is by no means necessary or even important, but which lasts 100 hours? Along the lines of the dwemer investigation we did in Morrowind, but with a bit more structure..

i spose the DCL is on the way

lol we're never happy..

Morrowind's guilds were repetitive, Oblivion's guilds were okay but REALLY short, and Skyrim's guilds weren't repetitive at all but were again still a little bit short. We're getting warmer!

The Tom wrote:Everyone seems to be in agreement that most of the quest lines were short, and I concur. It's one of the few disappointments I have with the game. I just wonder what they were doing. But part of that is that there's no real scale to these guilds. Instead of a branch in each major city, they each have one base and that's it, and that one base has as many people as one branch did in Oblivion. I feel lonely when I go to these places. There's not enough interaction with the world. The Companions only seem to operate out of Whiterun. The College only has about five interior spaces and they're stony and cold. Where's the dining room? Where's the character interaction?

While I love Skyrim, I agree that their work on the guilds feels like a step back. Having one centralised location only serves, weirdly, to make the place feel less homely. It's less like you get to be in control of an organisation and more like your reward is yet another house. And for the Arch-Mage, that house is a pretty echoey, cold house.

I quite agree, it was okay if you didn't know every member of your guild in Oblivion because there were so many and they were widespread and they did actually give a semblance of activity from time-to-time. As far as the guildmembers in Skyrim are concerned they may as well not exist when we're not looking at them.

Mattbott wrote:set the trend, dont follow it

Well said. As Lucien Lachance says in Oblivion, "Dear brother, I don't spread rumors. I create them."

Mattbott wrote:ok, so main quest might be 30 hours long but what about a secondary quest that is by no means necessary or even important, but which lasts 100 hours? Along the lines of the dwemer investigation we did in Morrowind, but with a bit more structure..

i spose the DCL is on the way

Yeah, I'm not really asking for something 100+ hours long (though that would be nice, if it were done well ) but it really is criminally short in some aspects (even the rate at which you level up skills fits into how short the game makes itself, I had a character with nearly maxed skills and I had barely put forth any effort into doing so).

Yeah, gonna cross my fingers for some good DLC. I liked Shivering Isles but Sheogorath sure does have a lot of inflections with no visible facial expression change. It always threw me off and I've been noticing despite the fact that the faces are good in Skyrim they really don't emote enough.

Mattbott wrote:lol we're never happy..

Indeed.

Gideon Dragontongue wrote:Morrowind's guilds were repetitive, Oblivion's guilds were okay but REALLY short, and Skyrim's guilds weren't repetitive at all but were again still a little bit short. We're getting warmer!

Morrowind's guilds weren't completely lacking in flavor, but I won't argue that point (if only because I can't remember enough). Oblivion's guilds weren't nearly as short as Skyrim's but I do agree... but tbh the reason we can say Skyrim's guilds weren't repetitive at all(and that's not referring to radiant quests, since they're built on repetition) is BECAUSE they're so short. They never get the change to be repetitive because they end so quickly. I felt like the scenarios were good but 1) they could have done more with them and 2) they really needed to draw things out and give a bit more life to the guilds.

The Thieves Guild was by far the best, all that really needs to happen is that all the guilds need to have lots of stuff to do after you finish the questline, instead of just one or two radiant quests.