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::Skyrim is a harsh, beautiful land that rewards the hardy with pockets lined with gold and bellies full of mead. Those who know their way around a lock or have sticky fingers can find even more opportunity, ripe for the picking. However, without the specialized quests of the guilds, Skyrim clumps the two arts of Thieving and Assassination together without distinction.::

I write this for all of my brothers and sisters of shadow. Having played much of Skyrim, and thinking myself a good thief at that, I caught myself stealthily wiping out a cave of bandits one day when some words from an old friend popped into my head. "We may be thieves, but we're not murderers." Since then, i've caught myself thinking, "Why am I so encouraged to scrub the walls of every ruin and tomb? How does killing hundreds of these nameless foes NOT make me any different than the Dark Brotherhood?"

My point is this: If you call yourself a thief, footpad, or pickpocket, try and carve out an existence as an adventurer without mindlessly slaughtering every rock, twig, and bunny you see in front of you. True thieving is HARD, as i've found out. But for those who like to take their skills to the next level, I propose to you this new challenge:
--RULES--
1.) Don't be seen! Your goal is to clear dungeons as stealthily as possible, with as little casualties as possible, and as much loot as your filthy little hands can carry.
2.) If you want something a hostile enemy has, you MAY NOT kill him. Pickpocket it or move on.
3.) If you're caught, you disappear into the shadow, rather than making yourself a new skin-suit. Invisibility potions are fair game!
4.) Killing is your last resort, or if it can't be helped. (I.E: a bandit chief that you're required to kill by quest.)

It won't be easy, and I can already imagine the frustration that much of you may face if you have a tendency to leave caverns drenched in blood. If you think you're up to the task, as I know you little buggers are, post stories about your trials and tribulations, especially if there's a heap of treasure at the end! Feel free to share tips to better thieving as well! And if you happen to have a den where you keep your rewards and mementos, post a screenshot link! I want to see how creative you all can get with this. Shadow Hide You...
~Onyx Absconditus, the Hidden Gem.

Tip: You can use a bow as a distraction, shooting arrows at a distant wall or hallway to lure potential combatants away from a chest you plan to pilfer.

Tip: If you are drawing too much attention to yourself, always retreat instead of trying to make a final stand. From personal experience, this is when you will make the most idiotic choices when thieving.

Is leading enemies into their own traps permitted? Because, that is too fun to give up.

But, isn't killing just stealing their life? (the hardest thing to pickpocket)

^ That makes sense.

But yeah, a 0 kills playthrough (at least with humanoid NPC's) is going to be damn hard...

So it is pretty much a pacifist run?

To Commander Kerr, keep in mind that this mostly applies to dungeon runs, NOT the entire game.
Leading them into traps is fair game, because we can all agree that their stupidity is what killed them.
I don't doubt that you'll get backed into a corner more than once, so then you may fight back. Just remember, stealth is the name of the game here people.
One of my favorite things to do is to steal from drug dealers and either sell it back to them, or give my khajiit friends their beloved sugar. Be creative with this, like I said. I just don't want to see the lines between assassin and thief so blurred.

This is a great idea! I can't wait to try this out. I really love it when someone comes up with a different way to play this great game.

I think I'll be a bit less strict with my character. I will attempt to crack dungeons without killing, but if I get caught I'll fight back. To make myself do it properly I'll try not always having a readied weapon.

Im glad they made it possible to complete the Thieves Guild as a pacifist (save )

Onyx Absconditus wrote: 4.) Killing is your last resort, or if it can't be helped. (I.E: a bandit chief that you're required to kill by quest.)

I could assume that reverse-pickpocketing poison to Bandit Chief's inventory would be appropriate, as well as luring them to their own traps? And of course, in any inavoidable fight, you could first pickpocket your enemy's armor and weapon, as I don't assume that thieves would play it fair. From the "pacifist" tricks, I assume that thieves may well apply at least Calm and Fear, but I'm unsure about Frenzy - maybe, maybe not. Maybe also dropping some expensive jewelry amongst bandits making them fight against themselves sound something that a real thief would do (such as "pacifist").

my new evil khaajit doesnt have any fighting skills of note, so he's all about the avoidance of shenanigans

paralysis poisons, ice form shout, distractions and invisibility, summoned creatures are his realm

mass frenzy spell scrolls are also good fun

This looks really fun, I will try this soon. Make them a full on thief with lockpicking, pickpocketing adn stealth as their main skills.

Love the idea, I'm in.

I always loved the stealthy missions in call of duty, especially the ones where you didn't have to kill anyone, that takes and shows true skill at being stealthy.

Question: Can you posion them to the point they fall down, but not kill them.

To MaKo, I LOVE your idea of dropping some trinkets. I never would've thought of that. As Da_BossMaN69 said though, you're trying to prove yourself as a master of stealth. Steal their weapons and armor if you like, but try not to burn a hole through their pockets by lining it with poison!

I'm not going to pretend like we thieves don't kill, considering the ones you meet on the road will ask for "your money or your life," but I want this thread to stand as a general guideline for playing a stealth character "in hard mode." We've already got some CAPITAL ideas going, so keep it up! Lastly, i'd just like to remind everyone that screenshots of your accomplishments are more than welcome, and the more you show off the better! (i.e. Drown your home in gold ingots and jewelry of all kinds. Make a treasure room that would make even the biggest dragon's mouth water.)

I actually tried this today, even though my current character is a mage and has around 30 sneak I still managed to pilfer Halted Stream camp with only 3 casaulties.

Is it a bad or good thieving run? I had to kill the three since they grouped around the mammoth and having to low sneak skill I tried to get them to go into the hallway but they kept turning around and straight for me, so I shot an arrow at a lantern killed two and slit the chiefs throat. In that scenario with such little sneak was that a successful run?

Definitely look forward to making a thief like this after I get bored of my mage.

Dance Commander Kerr wrote:So it is pretty much a pacifist run?

A pacifist would not be a thief.

I did this once before but gave up pretty quick. Soon enough you figure "true theives" are not very effective against dragons. I mean, you cannot pickpocket a dragon soul...

If I were to do this again, you'd have to leave the main quest aside entirely.

Dark Spark wrote:Tip: You can use a bow as a distraction, shooting arrows at a distant wall or hallway to lure potential combatants away from a chest you plan to pilfer.

Great tip, this is why I carry around lots of iron arrows

FrostMage79x wrote:Tip: If you are drawing too much attention to yourself, always retreat instead of trying to make a final stand. From personal experience, this is when you will make the most idiotic choices when thieving.

I agree, we're thieves, not do-or-die warriors!

Eltee wrote:Is leading enemies into their own traps permitted? Because, that is too fun to give up.

Guess what's even better? Leading traps to your enemies >: D

Musicman247 wrote:But, isn't killing just stealing their life? (the hardest thing to pickpocket)

Well I think the distinction is between an adventurer who hungrily scarfs down all the loot he can get his hands on and a selective, masterful thief who only takes the choicest loot and gets away with a smile on his face.

FrostMage79x wrote:

Dance Commander Kerr wrote:So it is pretty much a pacifist run?

A pacifist would not be a thief.

Er... am I misunderstanding what a pacifist is?

Pacifist - "a person who believes in pacifism or is opposed to war or to violence of any kind."

Don't think stealing has anything to do with preferring to avoid physical violence.

Jaime Gemstone wrote:I did this once before but gave up pretty quick. Soon enough you figure "true theives" are not very effective against dragons. I mean, you cannot pickpocket a dragon soul...

If I were to do this again, you'd have to leave the main quest aside entirely.

Ah! Animals don't count, dragons are inherently hostile and beast-like (and have little to steal) so they really fall under the non-humanoid category of okays-to-kill.

I'm definitely giving this a go

Jaime Gemstone wrote:I did this once before but gave up pretty quick. Soon enough you figure "true theives" are not very effective against dragons. I mean, you cannot pickpocket a dragon soul...

If I were to do this again, you'd have to leave the main quest aside entirely.

If you ignore Dragons long enough, they'll just fly away. So just pay no attention to them and keep sprinting and your fine. But hey that's your choice. I personally don't mind killing passive creatures for hunting as my Dead is Dead hunter/thief. But I sneak around Bears and Horkers and all those guys. And I normally don't hurt people at ALL. That means I don't lead people into traps, get them downed, or make them fight amongst each other. But again, you can follow your own set of rules.

Just updating with more tips:
How to Shout like a pro!
~Aura Whisper should be your best friend
~Throw Voice should be your best friend's hot sister
~Ice Form makes for a GREAT getaway if you get spotted
~Become Ethereal lets you ignore BOTH stamina and health loss, so sprint to your heart's content

A pacifist is also against doing things against their personal morals, and commonly against stealing as well.

An even harder challenge is to rob people completely blind. That means the eye cannot as much as open a crack. This can be fun but also not so fun sicnce you can't shoot arrows at walls.

FrostMage79x wrote:A pacifist is also against doing things against their personal morals, and commonly against stealing as well.

Definitely not true, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a high correlation between preferring to avoid physical violence and not taking things that belong to others, but the latter is not what defines a pacifist.

mr cowbell2 wrote:An even harder challenge is to rob people completely blind. That means the eye cannot as much as open a crack. This can be fun but also not so fun sicnce you can't shoot arrows at walls.

It's also difficult because pickpocketing is random, so you're pretty much doomed to failure every so often.