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I knew Tiber Septim was dragonborn, and I figure he used the Thu'um.

But as I recall in Oblivion, when Uriel Septim gets murdered by the Mythic Dawn in the sewers below the Imperial Prison in Imperial City, all he had to defend himself was a sword.

If Uriel Septim is dragonborn, why didn't he use the voice to help protect himself? I figured if you do have the soul of a dragon, you should be able to pick up on the shouts very quickly. Uriel Septim could have used shouts to keep the Mythic Dawn at bay. Why didn't he?

Stefan_S wrote:I knew Tiber Septim was dragonborn, and I figure he used the Thu'um.

But as I recall in Oblivion, when Uriel Septim gets murdered by the Mythic Dawn in the sewers below the Imperial Prison in Imperial City, all he had to defend himself was a sword.

If Uriel Septim is dragonborn, why didn't he use the voice to help protect himself? I figured if you do have the soul of a dragon, you should be able to pick up on the shouts very quickly. Uriel Septim could have used shouts to keep the Mythic Dawn at bay. Why didn't he?

becuse you still need to know the worlds.
and the dragon soul

I haven't played enough to consider this with all the facts, but I don't believe being a dragonborn guarantees that you instantly are endowed with the Thu'um and its abilities. For the Septim bloodline, being a "dragonborn" was sign of an ancient covenant between Akatosh and St. Alessia - not necessarily that they were Thu'um masters, per se, although given the lore they did have the ability to learn it, if they wanted, and learn it quickly. Normal mortals would spend lifetimes perfecting a few words. I would imagine the ability was an old Skyrim tradition, and to learn one would have to journey to Skyrim and speak with the Greybeards...quite a damper on your busy schedule as Emperor, eh?

Also, consider that dragons were mythical and had not made an appearance in ages since before the Skyrim saga...and are a result of a string of events from the prophecies of the Elder Scrolls, such as the Nerevarine from the Morrowind game and the Oblivion Crisis, for which Uriel's death in Oblivion was necessary. Blasting his attackers oughtn't have made a difference, I imagine. Destiny is destiny, after all.

I bet you would have made it out of the sewers, if the Emperor used the Voice, only for him to be killed by a rampant mydcrab.

Avron the S'wit wrote:I haven't played enough to consider this with all the facts, but I don't believe being a dragonborn guarantees that you instantly are endowed with the Thu'um and its abilities. For the Septim bloodline, being a "dragonborn" was sign of an ancient covenant between Akatosh and St. Alessia - not necessarily that they were Thu'um masters, per se, although given the lore they did have the ability to learn it, if they wanted, and learn it quickly. Normal mortals would spend lifetimes perfecting a few words. I would imagine the ability was an old Skyrim tradition, and to learn one would have to journey to Skyrim and speak with the Greybeards...quite a damper on your busy schedule as Emperor, eh?

Also, consider that dragons were mythical and had not made an appearance in ages since before the Skyrim saga...and are a result of a string of events from the prophecies of the Elder Scrolls, such as the Nerevarine from the Morrowind game and the Oblivion Crisis, for which Uriel's death in Oblivion was necessary. Blasting his attackers oughtn't have made a difference, I imagine. Destiny is destiny, after all.

I agree. The Septim emperors didn't slay dragons, didn't visit world walls and didn't venture to the Throat of the World to learn from the Greybeards (except Talos). So how could they use it, when they don't know the right words and have the power behind it?

Feanor wrote:

Avron the S'wit wrote:I haven't played enough to consider this with all the facts, but I don't believe being a dragonborn guarantees that you instantly are endowed with the Thu'um and its abilities. For the Septim bloodline, being a "dragonborn" was sign of an ancient covenant between Akatosh and St. Alessia - not necessarily that they were Thu'um masters, per se, although given the lore they did have the ability to learn it, if they wanted, and learn it quickly. Normal mortals would spend lifetimes perfecting a few words. I would imagine the ability was an old Skyrim tradition, and to learn one would have to journey to Skyrim and speak with the Greybeards...quite a damper on your busy schedule as Emperor, eh?

Also, consider that dragons were mythical and had not made an appearance in ages since before the Skyrim saga...and are a result of a string of events from the prophecies of the Elder Scrolls, such as the Nerevarine from the Morrowind game and the Oblivion Crisis, for which Uriel's death in Oblivion was necessary. Blasting his attackers oughtn't have made a difference, I imagine. Destiny is destiny, after all.

I agree. The Septim emperors didn't slay dragons, didn't visit world walls and didn't venture to the Throat of the World to learn from the Greybeards (except Talos). So how could they use it, when they don't know the right words and have the power behind it?

Yes, that is True. I overlooked that part. But they could learn it if they wished to, is that right?

Stefan_S wrote: Yes, that is True. I overlooked that part. But they could learn it if they wished to, is that right?

I guess, but as emperors I'm sure they had enough duties as it is.

Yes, that is True. I overlooked that part. But they could learn it if they wished to, is that right?

Any nord can and they have nordic blood so they could eve if they where not dragon bor, they how ever could learn faster the most

I figured when you factored new lore into the older games, they never learned to shout because they didn't have access to dragon souls. Sure, they could go to the Throat of the World if they knew about the Greybeards (I'd imagine they did), but like others have said, that would be quite the chore as a busy Emperor.

Grove-of-Hares wrote:I figured when you factored new lore into the older games, they never learned to shout because they didn't have access to dragon souls. Sure, they could go to the Throat of the World if they knew about the Greybeards (I'd imagine they did), but like others have said, that would be quite the chore as a busy Emperor.

not if they had a levitation spell

I wonder why Martin didn't go there. He wasn't busy with Emperor stuff at the beginning of the game. Maybe he didn't know about the dragon shouts.

addictedtomorrowind wrote:I wonder why Martin didn't go there. He wasn't busy with Emperor stuff at the beginning of the game. Maybe he didn't know about the dragon shouts.

most pepole did not know dragon born = shouts.

And Martin couldnt leave Cloud Ruler Temple or the Mythic Dawn could get to him.

Oh, wait, of course. The Daedra at Kvatch would kill him.

And he also didnt have time to travel to the Greybeards because he had to find a way to eneter Paradise and a way to stop the daedra.

addictedtomorrowind wrote:I wonder why Martin didn't go there. He wasn't busy with Emperor stuff at the beginning of the game. Maybe he didn't know about the dragon shouts.

Very few people in the Blades knew about it, and those who do simply didn't think it was important. Remember the dialogue about how Esbern was treated like a crazy, ranting old man by the other Blades? When you meet Delphine in Riverwood she acts like it's finally dawned on her that the old man was onto something all along.

JoeyDestructo wrote:not if they had a levitation spell

Ah, a spell I truly miss.

With Martin going to the Greybeards, it would obviously be dangerous like others have stated, but it would take way too long. Even if they just have to cross those mountains and head slightly north, it would be a very time-consuming trial. Besides, imagine the Blades (if they just so happened to be informed) making this trip with Martin while a ticking time-bomb of sorts is echoing all across Tamriel with the Oblivion gates.

Yeah, It wouldnt be very wise to make such a trip with the world in the state it was in.

Actually, most of the Septim dynasty were not directly connected to Tiber Septim, but rather to his brother, Agnorith.
I'm not even sure if the power of a dragonborn is heritable or not, but it must have weakened (if not completely lost) after so many generations.

(source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dy ... ber_Septim )

Senipul wrote:Actually, most of the Septim dynasty were not directly connected to Tiber Septim, but rather to his brother, Agnorith.
I'm not even sure if the power of a dragonborn is heritable or not, but it must have weakened (if not completely lost) after so many generations.

(source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dy ... ber_Septim )

Actually, the Dragonborn are supposed to be the descendants of Alessia. There's no proof outside the Remanada, a stylized and obviously religiously inspired text, that Reman I had a drop of her blood or that Tiber had a drop of Reman's blood.

The Skyrim book "Book of the Dragonborn" addresses this.

But we know for certain that the early Cyrodilic rulers were not all related. There is also no evidence that Reman Cyrodiil was descended from Alessia, although there are many legends that would make it so, most of them dating from the time of Reman and likely attempts to legitimize his rule.

Because of this connection with the Emperors, however, the other significance of the Dragonborn has been obscured and largely forgotten by all but scholars and those of us dedicated to the service of the blessed Talos, Who Was Tiber Septim. Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed. Those who become Emperor and light the Dragonfires are surely Dragonborn - the proof is in the wearing of the Amulet and the lighting of the Fires. But were they Dragonborn and thus able to do these things - or was the doing the sign of the blessing of Akatosh descending upon them? All that we can say is that it is both, and neither - a divine mystery.

Dragonborn means you have the soul of a dragon, not that your desended from Alessia, and the desendants of Tiber werent as powerful because they didnt learn to harness there powers, not that they slowly got less powerful over time.

Anonymous98223 wrote:Dragonborn means you have the soul of a dragon, not that your desended from Alessia,

It's pretty clear Akatosh or whoever grants this power gives it to someone who he feels descends from Alessia. If not physically then ideologically in some way. There's little to no proof that most of the Emperors who succeeded Alessia in the First Empire were blood offspring of hers. There's even less evidence Reman Cyrodill had any connection to any of them. If someone has a dragon soul, it may not be granted at birth, and probably not because of blood line. It seems almost as if Akatosh anoints someone with a dragon soul at a certain point in time. Like the ability to wear the Amulet is his blessing. It gets confusing in the Septim era though, especially in the middle years with all the in fighting and wars of succession. You had time periods when Emperors would serve less than three years before dying and quickly being replaced, almost as if multiple Dragonborn lived at the exact same time. I think it's more likely Akatosh was just impatient or apathetic at this point and said "frack it. Whatever Septim can hold the amulet gets the soul. I wash my hands of this mess."

and the desendants of Tiber werent as powerful because they didnt learn to harness there powers, not that they slowly got less powerful over time.

That's true, but technically most of the Septims are not blood descendants of Tiber. So again, if they're born with a dragon soul they didn't get it because they're descended from him unless his brother had one too.

Just because gods need mortals to interact with the world dosent mean the mortals are more powerful than a god, and Akatosh is greater than a lesser Daedra like a dremora, if they where to battle im sure Akatosh could destroy hes essence entirely.

Anonymous98223 wrote:Just because gods need mortals to interact with the world dosent mean the mortals are more powerful than a god,

If I could punch the terminator's head off with super strength it wouldn't do me a lot of good if he was on a completely other planet from me and I had no way of ever getting there and stopping him.

That's the situation with the Aedra, who are bound to Mundus, and the Daedra who can't usually enter it at all. In both their cases it's like looking through glass at a mugging in progress. Their hands are tied. There's nothing they can do without a champion. Why would they ask for favors otherwise?

and Akatosh is greater than a lesser Daedra like a dremora, if they where to battle im sure Akatosh could destroy hes essence entirely.

All existing lore on daedra makes it plain that they can't be permanently destroyed. There's never an exception to this rule that I can see. Even if you trap their souls, the soul will eventually be used up in whatever enchantment it's in and make its way back to Oblivion. You can believe they can be destroyed if you want - there's nothing to back it up. I see no reason why Akatosh being the killer would make a huge difference. The only difference I can imagine is that the body would be destroyed much faster than if a mortal were doing it. Akatosh could probably fry an entire legion of them in an instant, but he can't destroy their souls. They're bound very strongly to Oblivion, a realm Akatosh has no power over.

Keep in mind that it could be entirely possible that the Septim emperors had no idea they could master the Way of the Voice quickly due to them being Dragonborn. It's been a long time since Tiber walked Nirn. Just to stay on topic.