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As we know the Emperor invaded and occupied several islands between the Tamriel and Akavir, using them as naval bases - Esroniet, Cathnoquay, Yneslea, and one or two others - during the botched conquest of Tsaesci. My question is, what is the racial origin of these men? I just re-read the Commission and they only record them as "men", with no mention of mer or beasts, and no indication as to which race of men they were related to, if any.

However it's not elaborated upon quite how close to which of the continents these islands are - that is, are they closer to Tamriel or Akavir? Knowing this might answer the question; if they were closer to Tamriel then it's possible they were some kind of Nedic or even Cyrodiilic aboriginals having long since emigrated. On the other hand they could well be descendants of the (now extinct) men of Akavir. So, what are peoples' thoughts on all this?

I dont know, but appearently there are both rat and canine pirates from akavir :I

I do remember an anecdote about that - something to do with the Akaviri pirate invasion, when the locals fortified in the estate whose name I've forgotten. Damn you, Beth, and your teasing hints at mysertrious vulpine and rodent and canine species! That in itself is something to think about, but it's the men on those isles I was thinking about. Surely the legions would have reported beast-folk while they were taking over those places before Tsaesci.

A Children's Anuad mentions that Akavir was settled by Wandering Ehlnofey who became Men. Other sources contradict this in fantastical ways, but we have many newer and probably stronger sources to suggest at least some of the people living on Akavir were humans. I would imagine the people living on the island were men as well. Just men. Not Nords, Imperials or anything like that. These men evolved separately from those cultures. They had the same ancestors but are kind of their own thing.



Some of the same groups of men settled on the islands between Tamriel and Akavir. Like the Akaviri men, they were not descended from any Tamrielic mortals but had the same divine ancestors. I imagine them with Polynesian type features, personally, although Bethesda may have something different in mind.

Just because they are fascinating creatures now does not mean they were always!

If the tigers are related to the Khajiit, then they are distantly related to the elves aswell

honestly I get the strong feeling that akaviri men are asian . . . and not just because the asian influence on akaviri culture

but I read somewhere taht imperials have a good amount of akaviri bood, and akaviri facial traits are considered desirable and beautiful, and that noble families flaunt these traits

the most obvious and distinct facial traits not found amongst tamrielic races, traits that would be genuinly uniqueand well known . . .. . would be asian facial features

it just MAKES SENSE!!!!

more speculative crap on akavir, the snake men probably have a low population (probably one snake man for every ten humans in their civilization) there are probably still many red dragons in akavir

and I ALWAYS imagine the frost giants when the snow demons of Kamal are discussed . . . . they dont quite look like something out of nordic mythology, they look fairly demonic . . . . fairly asian . . .. If they retconned it so that the frost giants are the snow Demons . . . I WOULD BE FULLY BEHIND THAT RETCON!!!!!!!

I actually think all of the main races of Akavir are either men or once were and took bestial forms.

I picture the Kamal Snow Demons with vaguely Mongolian features. I have a personal hypothesis that the Rieklings in Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion may be descendants of them that experienced a sort of Island Dwarfism. Look at their own Mongolian features, including the stereotypical fumanchu mustache.

Bethesda could come out and declare the Rieklings are something completely different in future lore, but for now that seems a good enough idea.

As for there not being Akaviri facial traits in Tamriel - well, there are. It's mentioned in the First PGE, Second Empire subsection:

They have left a visible mark on the Empire of today. The high crafts of daikatanas and dragonscale armor came from Akavir, as did the banners and military dress of Septim's shock troops, the Blades. The Red Dragons that have come to represent the Empire and the Imperial City were originally Akaviri war mounts. Akaviri surnames are rare and prized possessions among the Cyrodilic citizenry of today, and there are trace facial features of the Akaviri in many distinguished Cyrodilic families.

This mentions trace amounts and was written during Tiber's reign, so it was like a thousand years before Skyrim, but some may still remain among the nobility. We didn't see any Asian facial features in the game set in Cyrodill but that doesn't mean according to lore they weren't there. A lot of things were cut or compressed to save space. In my mind, until we are absolutely told otherwise, I think quite a bit of the Imperials especially in the East have some Akaviri blood in their veins.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:I actually think all of the main races of Akavir are either men or once were and took bestial forms.

I picture the Kamal Snow Demons with vaguely Mongolian features. I have a personal hypothesis that the Rieklings in Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion may be descendants of them that experienced a sort of Island Dwarfism. Look at their own Mongolian features, including the stereotypical fumanchu mustache.

Bethesda could come out and declare the Rieklings are something completely different in future lore, but for now that seems a good enough idea.

As for there not being Akaviri facial traits in Tamriel - well, there are. It's mentioned in the First PGE, Second Empire subsection:

They have left a visible mark on the Empire of today. The high crafts of daikatanas and dragonscale armor came from Akavir, as did the banners and military dress of Septim's shock troops, the Blades. The Red Dragons that have come to represent the Empire and the Imperial City were originally Akaviri war mounts. Akaviri surnames are rare and prized possessions among the Cyrodilic citizenry of today, and there are trace facial features of the Akaviri in many distinguished Cyrodilic families.

This mentions trace amounts and was written during Tiber's reign, so it was like a thousand years before Skyrim, but some may still remain among the nobility. We didn't see any Asian facial features in the game set in Cyrodill but that doesn't mean according to lore they weren't there. A lot of things were cut or compressed to save space. In my mind, until we are absolutely told otherwise, I think quite a bit of the Imperials especially in the East have some Akaviri blood in their veins.

nobody said anything about there NOT beign facial traits present in tamrielic population . . . .

I wrote about what traits I thought they were (asian)

I am almost positive the snow demons of kamal ARE the frost giants, what would make more sense is that the rieklings are descended from the monkey peoples of akavir, probably brought as slaves by the snow demons!

wait . . . . . suddenly I have imposed a mongolion type kinda culture onto the monkey peoples . . . .

my god . . . . .its all coming together now

and the reason I want so badly for the frost giants to be the snow demons of kamal . . . . is that they look like something out of asian mythology

http://images.uesp.net/0/03/MW-Creatures-Karstaag.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oni_%28folklore%29

they dont look like they can be norse in origin . .

I share the idea of Akavir in general being Asian in its inspirations. We have the obsession and history with dragons, its position as a mysterious land to the east, and its past relations with the west. Does that sound familiar, knowing how TES draws on real-world comparisons? Furthermore the Akaviri weaponry and architecture is very oriental in its styling.

Thanks for clearing that up at least partially, Pilaf. I had suspected that the islanders were descendants of ancient men, the men of mainland Akavir being eaten by the Tsaesci (whatever that means exactly) while their cousins surviving on those islands.

I'm not sure how Mongolians would feel about being compared to a simian species, Ralok, but it wouldn't surprise me if all the races on Akavir had similarly Asian characterisitics. Not that they have to be entirely analogous to their Earth equivalents in their character, though.

I picture the Tang Mo like this guy, personally. He's the first character that comes to mind when I read their description.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:I picture the Tang Mo like this guy, personally. He's the first character that comes to mind when I read their description.

I am telling you the rieklings are a breed of Tang Mo descended from slaves of frost giants!

I'm telling you that your guess is as good as mine when it comes to the origins of the Rieklings or the physical appearance of any of the Akaviri races, since we've never seen a living full blooded Akaviri person. Well, except the dragon from Redguard. Technically he was an Akaviri person, a Red Dragon from Akavir. But not a humanoid.

The reason I guess the Rieklings are Akaviri in some way is their "asian" features, which is something fans have come to associate with Akavir. It could just be a coincidence but there's likely a connection.

Why do I guess Kamal instead of Tang Mo? Because there's actual written records of a failed Kamal invasion of Morrowind, which is near Solsthiem. There's no record or mention of any Tang Mo ever setting foot on Tamriel.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:I'm telling you that your guess is as good as mine when it comes to the origins of the Rieklings or the physical appearance of any of the Akaviri races, since we've never seen a living full blooded Akaviri person. Well, except the dragon from Redguard. Technically he was an Akaviri person, a Red Dragon from Akavir. But not a humanoid.

The reason I guess the Rieklings are Akaviri in some way is their "asian" features, which is something fans have come to associate with Akavir. It could just be a coincidence but there's likely a connection.

Why do I guess Kamal instead of Tang Mo? Because there's actual written records of a failed Kamal invasion of Morrowind, which is near Solsthiem. There's no record or mention of any Tang Mo ever setting foot on Tamriel.

EXACTLY

That is why I am guessing that the Kamal are the Frost giants, and that they brought a legion of Tang Mo slaves with them, which the rieklings are descended from (which we know the kamal want the tang mo lands or possibly them as slaves)

both the frost giants, and the rieklings are vaguely asian

It would make a great retcon that the frost giants are the kamal, and the rieklings tang mo, because then it would create a far more integrated akavir, and allow for familiar things in akavir

and it would save time designing new stuff in akavir

Like you said, the strongest evidence is the Asian type facial features on the Rieklings and the Frost Giant's similarity to both the Yeti from Eurasia and the Oni from Japanese mythology. These are both Asian type elements that were used in Bloodmoon, an otherwise very Norse influenced game expansion. The Udyrfrykte, another monster on Solsthiem, also resembled certain types of demons from Asian mythologies.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:Like you said, the strongest evidence is the Asian type facial features on the Rieklings and the Frost Giant's similarity to both the Yeti from Eurasia and the Oni from Japanese mythology. These are both Asian type elements that were used in Bloodmoon, an otherwise very Norse influenced game expansion. The Udyrfrykte, another monster on Solsthiem, also resembled certain types of demons from Asian mythologies.

If akavir has wild udyrykte that would be AWESOME!

It would actualyl be funny if it was opposite, the Frost giants being the tang mo and the rieklings being hte kamal . . . think about it, these creatures sizes are not specified XD

but it owuld most likely be the other way around

I've always wondered about the humans mentioned in that report. In fact, the entire text is fascinating, and it really sets the stage for more lore or even a game set there.

I'd say an entire game set in Akavir is probably among the least likely scenarios for future games, although an expansion pack into one of its kingdoms would be interesting.

The reason I find it unlikely is that it's such a hostile and alien world for the ten established races of Tamriel, and I can't see them radically changing the direction of the series enough to change playable races or anything. I believe the ten we've had to choose from since Morrowind are probably the status quo now. An expedition or invasion type expansion would be logical, but a full game would require a big shift in the lore between games - such as another, more successful invasion or something.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:I'd say an entire game set in Akavir is probably among the least likely scenarios for future games, although an expansion pack into one of its kingdoms would be interesting.

The reason I find it unlikely is that it's such a hostile and alien world for the ten established races of Tamriel, and I can't see them radically changing the direction of the series enough to change playable races or anything. I believe the ten we've had to choose from since Morrowind are probably the status quo now. An expedition or invasion type expansion would be logical, but a full game would require a big shift in the lore between games - such as another, more successful invasion or something.

I am putting my money a nation of Akavir being the most substantial expansion pack released for skyrim

we will probably see 3-4 knights of the nine (motehrship zeta) sized espansions

with one or two big shivering island/blood mooon sized expansions

A smalll jaunt to the snake palace of akavir would be sufficient, a quick show off of all the races of akavir and some of the environment aesthetics

I suspect we would be going there to defend them from an invasion of tiger people, lead by the great tiger dragon himself . . . now that would be fun!

If there was to be a game set anywhere in Akavir, I'd hope it would be sometime after a successful invasion. That way, settlers would have been able to found settlements and the hostile natives could have been driven into the dungeons. It would be a similar situation to Morrowind, which was set just a while after Vvardenfell was opened for settlement by foreigners.

Now let's try to get back to the topic at hand, as I'm sure there are numerous "TES: Akavir" threads around already.

I always imagine the kamal looking like that one demon the dragon-empereor transformed into in the Mummy 3, when he was running towards the great wall at the final battle.

Also, rieklings having "asian" features dosent make them Akaviri, Elves have asian features and there not from Akavir. It also seems impossible that a beast-folk like what the Tang Mo surely are could cross-breed with a demon to create a Riekling, plus rieklings look nothing like monkeys or demons. There like goblins and falmer, there probably even desended from the Falmer

And I think its worth mentioning that the Taesci(I know I spelt it wrong) "Snake-People" might actaully be more human or elf like, and not actually be half snake half man like originally thought. Look at the Akavir armor the dragongaurd brought over during thier invasion, its looks very humanoid and even has leg armors!! Wow! Who would of thought, they might not actaully be snakes. Plus some speculate that they interbread with men and could fit in with society during thier stay in Tamriel, seems pretty hard for something with the lower half of a snake to do.

Anonymous98223 wrote:And I think its worth mentioning that the Taesci(I know I spelt it wrong) "Snake-People" might actaully be more human or elf like, and not actually be half snake half man like originally thought. Look at the Akavir armor the dragongaurd brought over during thier invasion, its looks very humanoid and even has leg armors!! Wow! Who would of thought, they might not actaully be snakes. Plus some speculate that they interbread with men and could fit in with society during thier stay in Tamriel, seems pretty hard for something with the lower half of a snake to do.

They're definitely snakes. However, as has been discussed above, there are/were humans on Akavir.

Anonymous98223 wrote: Plus some speculate that they interbread with men and could fit in with society during thier stay in Tamriel, seems pretty hard for something with the lower half of a snake to do.

I've heard two interesting fan theories on how this is possible - one supported by Mysterious Akavir and an OOC post by Michael Kirkbride is that the Tsaesci "eat" other races of people to gain their forms and genetic material. This is a metaphysical type of Dawn Magic - like a more complete soul trapping, except it merges both body and soul.

Another theory is that they physically breed with people..through cunnilingus...kinda like the Alien in the movie Aliens, but down below. Yeah, disgusting. But cool as hell.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:

Anonymous98223 wrote: Plus some speculate that they interbread with men and could fit in with society during thier stay in Tamriel, seems pretty hard for something with the lower half of a snake to do.

I've heard two interesting fan theories on how this is possible - one supported by Mysterious Akavir and an OOC post by Michael Kirkbride is that the Tsaesci "eat" other races of people to gain their forms and genetic material. This is a metaphysical type of Dawn Magic - like a more complete soul trapping, except it merges both body and soul.

Another theory is that they physically breed with people..through cunnilingus...kinda like the Alien in the movie Aliens, but down below. Yeah, disgusting. But cool as hell.

I put forward the idea that hte Tsaesci are use there vampiric traits to absorb physical features of races based on this line from mysterious akavir

"The serpent-folk ate all the Men of Akavir a long time ago, but still kind of look like them."

I cant think of any other possible interpretation of that, I suggest that the Tsaesci probably keep humans around specifically because they adore human traits!

Heck for all we know the snake like traits of the tsaesci are derived from the consumption of dragon blood

Still, I am pretty sure that the tsaesci serve mostly roles as military leaders and use human soldiers, not wanting to risk their own immortality . . . this is probably why the akaviri soldiers we see at the pale pass are human-like

Yeah they once could of been snakemen, but now there surely more human like. And to say that the snake people are definitly snakes is a very bold claim. Many say that it could be entirely metaphoricle. And others say that when they "eat" other races they simply merge there culture with thier own and become the same race or something like that. These people are shrouded in so much mystery, just like the rest of Akavir, the its ahrd to say anything about them, they could have snake traits. Or the term "snake"men could of come from some deed they did in thier past. I however do ont believe that,even if this was there original idea, that beth. will make them have the torso of a snake and the upper body of a man. I think that simply men or mer who have a very great Golden aura around them would be cool enough, as longs as they gave them some new and cool facial features, maybe like vampire vangs.

Anonymous98223 wrote:Yeah they once could of been snakemen, but now there surely more human like. And to say that the snake people are definitly snakes is a very bold claim. Many say that it could be entirely metaphoricle. And others say that when they "eat" other races they simply merge there culture with thier own and become the same race or something like that. These people are shrouded in so much mystery, just like the rest of Akavir, the its ahrd to say anything about them, they could have snake traits. Or the term "snake"men could of come from some deed they did in thier past. I however do ont believe that,even if this was there original idea, that beth. will make them have the torso of a snake and the upper body of a man. I think that simply men or mer who have a very great Golden aura around them would be cool enough, as longs as they gave them some new and cool facial features, maybe like vampire vangs.

I imagine them like that snake guy from the batman beyond episode about splicers, with hugae snakelike fangs and dislocatable jaws

maybe that is where the snake comes from, the snakelike fangs

I am pretty sure it was confirmed they had snake lower bodies though, or at least tails

but like I said, maybe that is just because they drank the blood of dragons