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So I've played every The Elder Scrolls game when it was fairly new, plus Battlespire, and I've never finished a single one of them. After somehow finishing Fallout 3, however, I realized such a goal was not truly out of reach. So, I started (for the millionth time) at the beginning: Arena. Each time I've played this game over the past several years, I've made it a little further before getting annoyed by quirks and repetition (find guy, go to minor dungeon, find thingy, return to guy, go to major dungeon, get staff piece, rinse, repeat). This time, I've made it all the way to the last staff piece dungeon - Dagoth Ur - and am being severely annoyed by a short list of issues:

• As a level 21 Dark Elf Ranger, I have become a glass cannon. Specifically, I die in a couple hits from monsters who attack with ranged spells. This is despite having 100 Agility and Wisdom with the aid of passive item bonuses. Physical attacks aren't much of a threat, but that doesn't help since most ranged attacks are magical and my only chance at killing such foes quickly enough is via melee attacks from my Adamantium Longsword.
• I keep running into spots where I can't climb out of a trench because some monster is blocking the exit. I got lucky once and was able to paralyze a ghost that was moving back and forth to block a wide exit, but otherwise it's a frustrating quirk. Fortunately it was only that one time that I really needed to go that way.
• My latest specific issue is that the crypt Vampire in Dagoth Ur does not drop the Mithril Key when I kill him. I tried leaving the dungeon and returning so that he respawns, but he still doesn't drop the stinking key! I guess I'll have to look for a shop that has an item with Passwall?

I'm excited to finish this (finally) and feel like I can dive into Daggerfall in earnest for the first time in almost 15 years since buying the original release! I'll probably either burn out or get too frustrated by the randomly-generated 3D dungeons, but I'm planning to take someone's advice and immediately warp to quest locations and then find my way back out.

I've cheated in Arena twice (using a DOS game memory hacking tool) to get my health back up because the game was making it impossible to camp. I don't feel guilty about it due to the glass cannon issue combined with the extreme randomness and frequent brutality of monster spawns while camping and moving around. I've avoided keeping the cheat active permanently as an invincibility effect, though, so that there will still be some sense of accomplishment at the end.

There are notable flaws that seem to not only nauseate you, but me as well, though I take them more fondly, however. While Arena differs from other titles due to its gameplay, I find that it gives it more of an original appeal.
Sure, the game could have been better if it weren't for those nuisances which you stated, but I find that I have fun with the game nonetheless, that it is these things that make me enjoy Arena for what it is.

I am currently playing the game as we speak, and at the moment, I thought I would pursue alternatives rather than the main quest line and it did not take me long to realize how pointless that is. The random dungeons outside the city walls hold no merit, no reward, unless luck persists. Also, with lack of an intended destination within them, as they carry no purpose other than random placement, I hardly put any effort in the search for a stairwell - assuming that there may not actually be one. An objective would provoke me to explore until I retrieve it, hence the difference.

Missions from the Kings and Queens of various cities seem only to help me acquire gold, and usually set me on a quest to hunt down a certain creature - of which are firstly introduced through these quests.

I have no more than six staff pieces at the moment, and I have already encountered more than a dozen Liches via these missions. It's a good warm-up, no doubt, but there really isn't any point to it. Experience, purpose, are more readily available through the main quest line.

As for your short list of issue...
I concur. The stats are relatively useless, though they do make a difference. A suggestion would be to hunt down the Oghma Infinium. You will be less likely to die, however much that can make sense. Stats are second to health points. Leveling up increases healthpoints and is the only way to do so; the higher your health pool is, the more hits you can take.

I find the game still consumes many Heal Trues even as a level 21 Nord Barbarian who reached a maximum of 100 for Endurance by level five or six, and although the game is easier than what would have been the case if I had chosen any other class, it's still not truly easy.
Unfortunately, leveling up takes a long time, especially for a Barbarian.

As for your second issue... yes this is true. A ghost in Fang Lair stopped me from reaching a secret treasure-laden spot. And some quest later, ceased any opportunity for me to continue whatsoever. If I had not been lucky then, shooting the water just under it with a ring of fire magic, then I would have had to leave and try again, or the situation would have remained hopeless forever.

I heard Daggerfall had a blinding set of randomly-generated dungeons, and after watching a few playthroughs and reading about it, I assume I would have to use 'Mark' and 'Recall' to save my mind from insanity in most cases.

Arena will be the first game I complete. I've played Morrowind to death when I was younger, but never paid heed to the storyline (didn't understand it at the time). I just played until I got bored and/or the level cap provoked me to do something absurd, like kill everybody and start over. I never got far in Oblivion due to real-life circumstances. I look forward to Daggerfall after Arena is 'done', but I do not intend to rush through Arena, and will quite possibly go back to it on occasion.

RomeoDragonface wrote:There are notable flaws that seem to not only nauseate you, but me as well, though I take them more fondly, however. While Arena differs from other titles due to its gameplay, I find that it gives it more of an original appeal.
Sure, the game could have been better if it weren't for those nuisances which you stated, but I find that I have fun with the game nonetheless, that it is these things that make me enjoy Arena for what it is.

I don't regret playing Arena, but it definitely has some aspects that come close to being game-killers/deal-breakers.

I am currently playing the game as we speak, and at the moment, I thought I would pursue alternatives rather than the main quest line and it did not take me long to realize how pointless that is. The random dungeons outside the city walls hold no merit, no reward, unless luck persists. Also, with lack of an intended destination within them, as they carry no purpose other than random placement, I hardly put any effort in the search for a stairwell - assuming that there may not actually be one. An objective would provoke me to explore until I retrieve it, hence the difference.

Most everything not related to the main quest is procedurally-generated, and is not really worth doing. In most games I make a point of turning over every rock, but it's just not worth it in Arena - especially given the length of just the main plot quests by themselves.

There also isn't much in the way of good treasure to be found; almost all of my magic armor was from merchants. I did pick up a lot of random magic trinkets (crystals, marks, torcs, belts, rings, amulets, etc.) that were okay, though.

Missions from the Kings and Queens of various cities seem only to help me acquire gold, and usually set me on a quest to hunt down a certain creature - of which are firstly introduced through these quests.

I found little need for money, as I was able to accumulate a good deal from selling unwanted magic trinkets. I only ever needed to repair my sword and/or shield after most of the main quest dungeons, and I purchased upgraded equipment infrequently.

I have no more than six staff pieces at the moment, and I have already encountered more than a dozen Liches via these missions. It's a good warm-up, no doubt, but there really isn't any point to it. Experience, purpose, are more readily available through the main quest line.

Agreed.

As for your short list of issue...
I concur. The stats are relatively useless, though they do make a difference. A suggestion would be to hunt down the Oghma Infinium. You will be less likely to die, however much that can make sense. Stats are second to health points. Leveling up increases healthpoints and is the only way to do so; the higher your health pool is, the more hits you can take.

How do you locate artifact equipment in Arena? I also heard talk of a Skeleton Key on the Wiki.

I find the game still consumes many Heal Trues even as a level 21 Nord Barbarian who reached a maximum of 100 for Endurance by level five or six, and although the game is easier than what would have been the case if I had chosen any other class, it's still not truly easy.
Unfortunately, leveling up takes a long time, especially for a Barbarian.

I probably should have invested in potions, but instead I just tried to rest. This earned me extra XP from killing whatever monsters decided to interrupt me.

As for your second issue... yes this is true. A ghost in Fang Lair stopped me from reaching a secret treasure-laden spot. And some quest later, ceased any opportunity for me to continue whatsoever. If I had not been lucky then, shooting the water just under it with a ring of fire magic, then I would have had to leave and try again, or the situation would have remained hopeless forever.

I had poor luck trying to kill ghosts from below in those situations. I ended up circumventing them later on by liberal use of Passwall (bought some enchanted greaves with over 400 charges, with each charge allowing 3 walls to be removed).

I finally beat Arena a day or two ago. The final confrontation was anti-climactic: I ran headlong into a monster that the game labeled as simply being a "Battlemage". Suspecting it was Jagar Tharn, I looked around and found his soul thingy. I was able to run around back of the room it was in and Passwall into it before Jagar was able to get to me, and clicking the soul thingy launched the game ending sequence. I then went to YouTube and watched the CD-ROM version ending to see how it differed

I heard Daggerfall had a blinding set of randomly-generated dungeons, and after watching a few playthroughs and reading about it, I assume I would have to use 'Mark' and 'Recall' to save my mind from insanity in most cases.

Started rolling a custom character in Daggerfall last night, although I'll probably burn out on it quickly due to having just finished Arena. I ended up losing my character twice before getting out of the first room due to bugs (well, technically the second time was my fault). I installed all of the unofficial quest fixes from the Wiki for fun; I'm curious to see how much smoother the experience is with those. I spent many hours playing DF when it was new, but never got super far in.

Arena will be the first game I complete.

It's now the first Elder Scrolls game I've managed to complete as well! Of course, my hangup about finishing sequels before earlier games in a series probably interfered with my interest in the later games (all of which I enjoyed more).

I've played Morrowind to death when I was younger, but never paid heed to the storyline (didn't understand it at the time). I just played until I got bored and/or the level cap provoked me to do something absurd, like kill everybody and start over. I never got far in Oblivion due to real-life circumstances. I look forward to Daggerfall after Arena is 'done', but I do not intend to rush through Arena, and will quite possibly go back to it on occasion.

Arena is really very sparse compared to any of the sequels. It's much more of an action game with distinct (but largely underdeveloped) RPG elements. As someone who has a major aversion to rushing through games, I would actually recommend focusing intently on pushing directly through the main quests if you really want to reach the end before getting bored of the repetition.

HunterZ wrote:How do you locate artifact equipment in Arena? I also heard talk of a Skeleton Key on the Wiki.

Talk to random people in town and ask them about general rumours. Eventually someone will say that some guy in some tavern has a map to the dungeon where an artifact is. The best city to ask in is the imperial city, because there you can get all the artifact quests. You can just keep asking until you get the artifact quest you want. Choose wisely, since aside from the Oghma Infinium you can only have one artifact at a time - unless of course you do some bug abusing.


As for being zapped to death from afar and trapped in trenches - the solution to both of these are items.

Weapon of lightning resistance (and possible fire resistance if you have trouble with vampires and hell hounds) will solve this issue. These tend to only come in lesser materials (although there is an ebony longsword of lightning resistance to be bought somewhere), so you might have to equip it, use the resistance spell and then equip a better weapon.

For trenches - mark of levitation. If you use that while trapped under a ghost, you will pop up beside him (or into him?!) even though he's blocking you.

RomeoDragonface wrote:Unfortunately, leveling up takes a long time, especially for a Barbarian.

Actually no, this isn't true: I made a thread about this: http://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25356

chrismokvack wrote:

HunterZ wrote:How do you locate artifact equipment in Arena? I also heard talk of a Skeleton Key on the Wiki.

Talk to random people in town and ask them about general rumours. Eventually someone will say that some guy in some tavern has a map to the dungeon where an artifact is. The best city to ask in is the imperial city, because there you can get all the artifact quests. You can just keep asking until you get the artifact quest you want. Choose wisely, since aside from the Oghma Infinium you can only have one artifact at a time - unless of course you do some bug abusing.

Can you go to Imperial City before the last stage of the game? I didn't even think to try until then, and at that point I just strolled right up to the palace to defeat Jagar Tharn.

As for being zapped to death from afar and trapped in trenches - the solution to both of these are items.

Weapon of lightning resistance (and possible fire resistance if you have trouble with vampires and hell hounds) will solve this issue. These tend to only come in lesser materials (although there is an ebony longsword of lightning resistance to be bought somewhere), so you might have to equip it, use the resistance spell and then equip a better weapon.

I actually had a Short Bow of Fire Resistance in my inventory for much of the game, but having to equip it, cast the spell, then re-equip my normal sword'n'board was too much of a pain most of the time.

For trenches - mark of levitation. If you use that while trapped under a ghost, you will pop up beside him (or into him?!) even though he's blocking you.

Interesting. I thought of trying that, but usually I got stuck at the end of tunnels that open into trenches; I figured levitation would just bonk my head into the ceiling of the tunnel.

I should start a thread in the Daggerfall forum now that I've started that. I'll probably get some good tips from people

chrismokvack wrote:Actually no, this isn't true: I made a thread about this: http://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25356

That's good to know. Thanks a lot for your time and input about that. Now I no longer have to procrastinate over lengthily grinding periods.

HunterZ wrote:I found little need for money, as I was able to accumulate a good deal from selling unwanted magic trinkets. I only ever needed to repair my sword and/or shield after most of the main quest dungeons, and I purchased upgraded equipment infrequently.

Neither did I. That was one of the few points I saw to such quests however, but on occasion I also found out that the payment could be rather low, though not so much.

HunterZ wrote:I probably should have invested in potions, but instead I just tried to rest. This earned me extra XP from killing whatever monsters decided to interrupt me.

That is beneficial. It would save me from spending lots, though at the same time, take up a more time. Along with what you said; more foes for more exp. It's really a matter of choice, though I assume a character with a lower HP pool would have to do this more often.

HunterZ wrote:I then went to YouTube and watched the CD-ROM version ending to see how it differed

I saw both versions on Youtube a while ago...

HunterZ wrote:Arena is really very sparse compared to any of the sequels. It's much more of an action game with distinct (but largely underdeveloped) RPG elements. As someone who has a major aversion to rushing through games, I would actually recommend focusing intently on pushing directly through the main quests if you really want to reach the end before getting bored of the repetition.

... (cont.) So I suppose then, that sense will be made if I keep a low attention span and move on to Daggerfall as soon as possible. Why otherwise? For a brief ending cinematic? All that work for that? I see what you mean. My previous statement, of which you quoted from, was due to the fact that I would miss the long journey, despite how barren it may be.

HunterZ wrote:It's now the first Elder Scrolls game I've managed to complete as well! Of course, my hangup about finishing sequels before earlier games in a series probably interfered with my interest in the later games (all of which I enjoyed more).

I secretly want to be playing the later titles right now. Something inside of me wants me to do it from start to finish though, possibly my inner nerd wanting to know the history before the sequels, so that they can be read or appreciated in a different way when I get to them.

HunterZ wrote:I ended up losing my character twice before getting out of the first room due to bugs (well, technically the second time was my fault). I installed all of the unofficial quest fixes from the Wiki for fun; I'm curious to see how much smoother the experience is with those.

I would like to thank you for the heads up. I'm not surprised to read this, and may have done so sometime before, but I am sure I would have forgotten how buggy the game was going to be without the unofficial patches before I started playing - lest I would have been smart enough to read up about it again beforehand, to remind myself of things I need to know in case there is error in an overlook.

Unfortunately, leveling up takes a long time, especially for a Barbarian.
I have not taken my time to check on the arena game. I only had the opportunity of watching it when my brother got it. It is very bulging and a bit conversational. I think it is saying something but not yet understood.

RomeoDragonface wrote:... (cont.) So I suppose then, that sense will be made if I keep a low attention span and move on to Daggerfall as soon as possible. Why otherwise? For a brief ending cinematic? All that work for that? I see what you mean. My previous statement, of which you quoted from, was due to the fact that I would miss the long journey, despite how barren it may be.

I avoided spoiling the end for myself so that I would have it as a motivator, but ultimately I wanted to be able to say that I finished the first TES game. Other than that, it wasn't much to write home about. I think artifacts are the only aspect of the game that I really missed by sticking to the main plot.

I secretly want to be playing the later titles right now. Something inside of me wants me to do it from start to finish though, possibly my inner nerd wanting to know the history before the sequels, so that they can be read or appreciated in a different way when I get to them.

I have a hangup about playing sequels before finishing the earlier games in a series. Partly this is due to Baldur's Gate 2 spoiling the ending to BG1 in the intro; I've never managed to finish those games either.