UESP Forums

Assuming the 'new' sheogorath isn't actually a daedric prince and most likely will be dead by the time we enter Skyrim... Would Sheogorath be considered a Daedric prince? Will there be a replacement? Im not expecting anyone to know, but what are your opinions, what do you think could happen?

Another topic of similar content: If the Hero in Oblivion was an altmer, or Dunmer, isn't it quite possible they will still be alive during the crisis in Skyrim?...

Arrilyn wrote:Another topic of similar content: If the Hero in Oblivion was an altmer, or Dunmer, isn't it quite possible they will still be alive during the crisis in Skyrim?...

Depends how long they were in the prison in the Imperial City, plus being the mad-god might age you like crazy

As for Sheogorath, it's one of the things I'm most interested to find out, even if it's just in a book somewhere, though I'd love there to be a shrine to the old Sheogorath in Skyrim, with followers that can fill you in (either depressed that there is no answer to their pleas). It would be very interesting though if by freeing Jyggalag the hero of Cyrodiil actually became a Daedric Prince over time, or was eventually replaced by a new one!

Haravikk wrote:As for Sheogorath, it's one of the things I'm most interested to find out, even if it's just in a book somewhere, though I'd love there to be a shrine to the old Sheogorath in Skyrim, with followers that can fill you in (either depressed that there is no answer to their pleas). It would be very interesting though if by freeing Jyggalag the hero of Cyrodiil actually became a Daedric Prince over time, or was eventually replaced by a new one!

It never occurred to me, but now you mention it I'm curious now!

I'd like to see some mention of him, like Haravikk suggests perhaps an overgrown or weathered statue to the classic Madgod with a few poor nutters who are more confused than normal. Or a shiny new one hailing the 're-incarnated' Madgod - they may even use the same function they did for the Bravil statue and actually have your Oblivion character on there!

And Jyggalag? Would we see a shrine to him I wonder? Probably worshipped by librarians or something...

Coupaholic wrote: And Jyggalag? Would we see a shrine to him I wonder? Probably worshipped by librarians or something...

Jyggalag has been Sheogorath for as long as a lot of races had formed religion so likely we'll either see newly erected statues or maybe a quest to build one like Boethiah's in Morrowind...

I must've forgotten it, but has it been confirmed that the Hero of Cyrodill, if s/he did the SI, eventually turns into the new "Sheogorath" to help Mr. Dragonborn?

Haravikk wrote:Depends how long they were in the prison in the Imperial City, plus being the mad-god might age you like crazy

The Champion of Cyrodiil, A.K.A, The Madgod, never ascended to immorality, so they are still subject to the physical world, which means they still age.

But as the events of The Shivering Isles were canonized, it should make for an interesting outcome in Skyrim.
Haskil's immortal right? He could be the new Madgod. He does know more about the job than the original Sheogorath ever did!
And, it would be extremely interesting!

I had always thought that when the Hero of Cyrodil became the Madgod, they also ascended to immortality. How do we know for a fact that is not the case?

There's the possibility that a resident of an Oblivion plane (or a Blessed of Sheogorath, at least) never dies from temporal means.

As I recall: Ciirta not only survived one Greymarch, she lived long enough to see the beginning of another.

if he is back, than i'd like to see him separated form jyggalag somehow and each becoming individual daedric princes. but the champion became sheogorath so it's hard to tell whats going to happen

Daedric Princes have no standard form - they choose to appear as whatever they like. That's why we don't have to worry about character clashes. So, as long as he ascended properly into his role, he/she should live forever and become the actual Daedric Prince of Madness.

dragonfett wrote:I had always thought that when the Hero of Cyrodil became the Madgod, they also ascended to immortality. How do we know for a fact that is not the case?

How do we know that it isn't? We don't know enough about what really goes on on the Daedric side of things so it's hard to say either way I suppose

However, I assumed that the plan was simply that instead of Jyggalag attacking unopposed as before, that the Lord Sheogorath would be there to stand in the way. I don't think being a Daedra or immortal or whatever had anything to do with it really, since all that was required was to halt Jyggalag before he could take total control of the Shivering Isles, as he'd then proceed to complete the cycle as before without opposition, and simply become Sheogorath once again.

So the question really is whether inheriting the Shivering Isles is enough to inherit some of the powers of the position of mad god. I think it more likely that all true power was lost as the Daedric spirit is still alive and well in Jyggalag, so it's more likely that the isles were ruled for a time by the new lord, and someone later had to take over.

However, stranger things have happened in the lore, and if Jyggalag were somehow split in power, then it could conceivably result in both he and a Sheogorath with powers existing simultaneously, albeit with neither having the full power of the other Daedric Princes. This may actually be convenient for everyone, since it would mean Jyggalag would be unable to threaten the other Daedric Princes like he did before, or at least not without learning some new tricks.

ChaosDawns wrote:I always saw Jyggalag as casting off the Curse that is Sheogorath by getting someone else to take his place. So if we follow this train of thought, Jyggalag is free, completely, from Sheogorath caging his power and the person who assumes the title of Sheogorath is getting their powers from the curse itself(A curse placed by multiple Daedric Princes has got to be powerful).

Agreed.

So another possibility is that Sheogorath no longer exists, that the curse kept the Hero going for a few years and then either through time or because the other Daedra stepped in the curse dissipated - I don't now how the other Daedra reacted to the little mortal playing princes with them, but I doubt they sent him a welcome hamper.

He should be a deadly Hellwraith who's, like, searching for the ninja who killed his girlfriend long ago!

I honestly doubt that Bethesda would completely get rid Shegorath as he seems to be one of the more favorite ones, but I don't think they would get rid of Jyggalag now that he's come back without some sort of explanation (and a darn good one too!).

A Daedric Prince cannot be simply gotten rid of. Not only are the immortal, but they are a force that influences the mortal world - and so long as we still have those who are mad, insane, crazy or just plain weird, the Daedric Prince of Cheese, Lettuce and Yarn will live on.

TheNightFather wrote:A Daedric Prince cannot be simply gotten rid of. Not only are the immortal, but they are a force that influences the mortal world - and so long as we still have those who are mad, insane, crazy or just plain weird, the Daedric Prince of Cheese, Lettuce and Yarn will live on.

But he hasn't been "gotten rid of", he was always Jyggalag and simply cursed to be the mad-god

It would be fun if he hasn't completely broken the curse, and actually exists as two distinct princes with only half the strength, so he'd have the ultimate multiple personality disorder as he'd literally be two people at once. Or the new Sheogorath could actually have been cursed themselves to eventually become the Sheogorath we all know and love, i.e - instead of breaking the curse they've simply inherited it from Jyggalag who is now free while the champion of Cyrodiil ceases to be who they once were, only regaining knowledge of who they were once every thousand years…

@Haravikk: I like both ideas. The second could be used to explain why the Champion of Cyrodiil etc. hasn't died. However, I am inclined to believe that, due to the fact the PC may also become the Grey Fox and in doing so have their name erased from history, Bethesda is fairly safe without explaining this to us in great depth.

TheNightFather wrote:A Daedric Prince cannot be simply gotten rid of. Not only are the immortal, but they are a force that influences the mortal world - and so long as we still have those who are mad, insane, crazy or just plain weird, the Daedric Prince of Cheese, Lettuce and Yarn will live on.

Might I remind you that Sheogorath isn't really a prince, rather a cursed prince who is now supposedly (I don't believe it though as Sheo. is such a classic TES character) free of the curse.

OblivionDuruza wrote:@Haravikk: I like both ideas. The second could be used to explain why the Champion of Cyrodiil etc. hasn't died. However, I am inclined to believe that, due to the fact the PC may also become the Grey Fox and in doing so have their name erased from history, Bethesda is fairly safe without explaining this to us in great depth.

But isn't the curse of the Grey Fox lifted by the Elder Scroll? The Champion of Cyrodiil could probably tell people their name if they wanted, but simply lacks the option to, and the AI has always been a bit thick anyway so taking the cowl off isn't enough.
I dunno, in any event they wouldn't really need to explain the champion of Cyrodiil erased idea for Sheogorath, as the thousand year cycle is 800 years off in Skyrim, so some snippets alluding to who the "overwritten" Sheogorath once was could be enough to cover it. For example a diary in which the mad god makes mention of things that the champion of Cyrodiil would have done, not in enough detail that your past character has to be imported or anything, but enough to give you a clue that this is what may have happened.

The Troll Hunter wrote:If you've never played S.I, (I have so this is just a theory) then Sheogorath would still be reigning, wouldn't he?

Jayred Ice-Veins (the bone guy) would likely have made it out of the Fringe eventually without your help, so he could have become the new Sheogorath instead, heh.

But since Oblivion never really ends, there's nothing to say the champion (outside of your control) didn't eventually make it to the Shivering Isles and complete the quests there in the 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim. So I think that the champion of Cyrodiil completing the Shivering Isles is guaranteed enough to be canon.

Haravikk wrote:

The Troll Hunter wrote:If you've never played S.I, (I have so this is just a theory) then Sheogorath would still be reigning, wouldn't he?

Jayred Ice-Veins (the bone guy) would likely have made it out of the Fringe eventually without your help, so he could have become the new Sheogorath instead, heh.

But since Oblivion never really ends, there's nothing to say the champion (outside of your control) didn't eventually make it to the Shivering Isles and complete the quests there in the 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim. So I think that the champion of Cyrodiil completing the Shivering Isles is guaranteed enough to be canon.

Ummm.... Jayred makes it out of the isles? I just walked up to the gatekeeper and killed him without help. (I have 100% chameleon armour. STEALTH ATTACKS!!!!!!)

The Troll Hunter wrote:Ummm.... Jayred makes it out of the isles? I just walked up to the gatekeeper and killed him without help. (I have 100% chameleon armour. STEALTH ATTACKS!!!!!!)

I was responding to your comment about people who haven't played the Shivering Isles campaign, stealth attacking the gatekeeper doesn't really fall into that category…