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Is it just or is anyone else sick of breaking into the castles of the count's and finding only 100 coins in their "treasure chest". It really defeats the purpose of there even being a crime system. Can there be more wealth generated in the world, like i want to know that im willing to go to jail for 1000 coins. In the new game there really should be more money on people. I know, I know: "BUT THEN EVERY1 WILL BE TEH RICHEST MAN EVA", correct me if im wrong but isnt these the same series with the all-knowing imperial legion? I'm sure they can make a more intricate crime system that will make it harder to steal.

I want to be able to break into the Cheydinhal bank and actually find money, what are they keeping in there? A never ending supply of wool. Hell position guards outside every wealthy persons house if that's what it takes to make a fair and balanced way of getting rich in the game. Its not like stealing 1g from a mansion is even going to make you rich. Aren't there like weapons and objects worth 10g, meanwhile a quest can get you better items. Its defeats the purpose, make stealing more rewarding so when we get the money to buy the objects we can still be at some-what lower levels.

Have guards get suspicious when more people are robbed, forcing you to flee the town and lay low, that way we won't be able to become billionaires at level 6. Last time i checked a shack cost 5gs. Then how can these people be poor and wear rags afford that, or even carry around some decent amount of gold on them. For christ's sake the count of the most influential city next to the IC,(Skingrad) only carries like 200 gold on him. The drake estate guy can own all that land and ogres yet he can't even hit the atm every know and then?

I just want to be able to know that going to jail is worth it for once in a while, instead of losing 7 skill levels just for 300 gold.

a few problems
#1 the idea of stealing is not geting caught


but for real

#1 I do agree they need to change it but having guards at every house is dumb (how ever having guards in the fancy houses make sense)
#2 The cheepist house in Oblivion is 1000 or 2000 gold (ones that are not free)
I have no problem with that
5g would be good if you could buy bed rolls out in the wild to use
or even in towns but not good for a hut IMO

#3 it depends on your level, I can get pretty rich at high levels by stealing
low level not so much cause most items are leveled

Da_BossMaN69 wrote: Hell position guards outside every wealthy persons house .

And I just mean that if i do get caught i want to know it was worth losing the 6 skills, and stealing should be a viable option of getting money, It is a Role-Playing Game, i want to role play as a master theif and get away with it too. Thats another way to expand the shelf life, more options and more ways to play means the game will last longer.

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:

Da_BossMaN69 wrote: Hell position guards outside every wealthy persons house .

And I just mean that if i do get caught i want to know it was worth losing the 6 skills, and stealing should be a viable option of getting money, It is a Role-Playing Game, i want to role play as a master theif and get away with it too. Thats another way to expand the shelf life, more options and more ways to play means the game will last longer.

I agree more features would be nice
but almost every one on here has played probely years by now lol


The game can last forever its been out five years and I still do stuff new every day

and it is a way

go to mage's guild and steal big $$$
fighters guild to

heck the castle has a lot of "worthless stuff" that adds up to $$$

They did that so that it would encourage people not to attempt to plunder every castle and house for it's gold and actually do something worth while. I figure that the whole reason those poor people were living in the houses the were (which is where you can buy the cheapest house in the game for 2,000 gp) is because they were making payments on it in the game. Well, why couldn't we have done the same, because Bethesda didn't want us to do that either. The one thing that has always irked me about the crime system is how it seems everyone and their uncle all over the map instantly knows what I had done. Granted, there technically was nothing instant about it in Oblivion since they did away with teleportation effects, but it's still irksome. I mean why are they bumbling idiots when it comes to every other criminal, but you they treat with the 9th degree?

few things but i want you to know I am no way speaking for the all mighty Bethesda

dragonfett wrote:They did that so that it would encourage people not to attempt to plunder every castle and house for it's gold and actually do something worth while.

Umm what???
how do you been know why they did anything?
and As i told you MANY of us get so rich its unreal form stealing

your Opinion holds no value as shuch when you say something as a fact

dragonfett wrote: I figure that the whole reason those poor people were living in the houses the were (which is where you can buy the cheapest house in the game for 2,000 gp) is because they were making payments on it in the game. Well, why couldn't we have done the same, because Bethesda didn't want us to do that either.

#1 they are not making payments so this has nothing to do with anything

dragonfett wrote: The one thing that has always irked me about the crime system is how it seems everyone and their uncle all over the map instantly knows what I had done. Granted, there technically was nothing instant about it in Oblivion since they did away with teleportation effects, but it's still irksome. I mean why are they bumbling idiots when it comes to every other criminal, but you they treat with the 9th degree?

have you ever seen hauls ropes faster (i think thats the one)
he almost always gets killed for stealing

you wont get the 9th degree if you don't get caught

the thieves guild dose not keep members that get caught a lot
so of couse the only thifes you see are good ones or they die quickly



I will give you how ever one knows your deed, but how eles are they going to take away your stolen goods?

if you steal form Kavatch (i know its destroyed just an example) then you went some where eles and they did not
you could get away "scotch free" thats worse then the way they have it now i belive


what i would like is a time form when you do it to when it reaches the next xity ect

I dont want every person carrying around 1000 septims every where they go, what i want is this.

NEW CRIME SYSTEM
1. Every person who is described as "rich" has 1000 septims, MINIMUM, in a chest located in their house somewhere, it will be hard-very hard locked.
2. When a person manages to steal the money from the chest, the town guard will go searching for who ever did it, they will try to find the key to the chest on some person, and they could suspect you if you act suspicious. This lets you pin the blame on others
3. Once deemed suspicious you have to leave town and lay low.
4. The more you steal the more the guards investigate and question you, you'll have to leave for a considerable amount of time
5. Lower ranking members of society have no guards and less money.
6. Murders are bigger this time around, if you get away with it the guards will again ask questions and suspect you, but you can pin the blame on others.
7. Murdering/Stealing from the local count/duke/king/etc will have the whole town guard on alert and you will leave for a very long time
8. As an alternative to fleeing the city you can bribe guards or befriend the count/captain/guard to look the other way if you commit a crime.
8. The jurisdiction of your crimes will only pertain to the town it happened in, no other town/city will be aware of what you did

THIS IS MY MOST IMPORTANT RULE FOR ME YOU SHOULD FINALLY BE ABLE TO BREAK OUT OF JAIL AND ESCAPE WITHOUT ANY GUARDS KNOWING AND TRYING TO ARREST YOU, YOU CAN HIDE OUT IF YOU DO ESCAPE AND WAIT IT OUT, NO MORE BEING CAUGHT THE INSTANT YOU WALK OUT OF THAT CELL.

now this I will agree with

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:I dont want every person carrying around 1000 septims every where they go, what i want is this.

NEW CRIME SYSTEM
1. Every person who is described as "rich" as 1000 septims, MINIMUM, in a chest located in their house somewhere, it will be hard-very hard locked.

this is good but 1000 is not rich at all, besides who puts that much gold in one chest?
All I'm saying is maybe more then one chest

Da_BossMaN69 wrote: 2. When a person manages to steal the money from the chest, the town guard will go searching for who ever did it, they will try to find the key to the chest on some person, and they could suspect you if you act suspicious.

one problem is programing this
how will the game notice you being suspicions?
if its sneaking around then that can be a pain

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
3. Once deemed suspicious you have to leave town and lay low.
4. The more you steal the more the guards investigate and question you, you'll have to leave for a considerable amount of time
5. Lower ranking members of society have no guards and less money.

I like these three

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
6. Murders are bigger this time around, if you get away with it the guards will again ask questions and suspect you, but you can pin the blame on others.
7. Murdering/Stealing from the local count/duke/king/etc will have the whole town guard on alert and you will leave for a very long time
8. As an alternative to fleeing the city you can bribe guards or befriend the count/captain/guard to look the other way if you commit a crime.

like both but i dont see pepole just forgting about murder

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
8. The jurisdiction of your crimes will only pertain to the town it happened in, no other town/city will be aware of what you did

I think the idea is okay but needs work
the towns should know if you killed evrey one in this town
or if you stole the castle form under the count,
since they have a cival war maybe some citys are loyal to each other and arest you while the others will gaurd you

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:

THIS IS MY MOST IMPORTANT RULE FOR ME YOU SHOULD FINALLY BE ABLE TO BREAK OUT OF JAIL AND ESCAPE WITHOUT ANY GUARDS KNOWING AND TRYING TO ARREST YOU, YOU CAN HIDE OUT IF YOU DO ESCAPE AND WAIT IT OUT, NO MORE BEING CAUGHT THE INSTANT YOU WALK OUT OF THAT CELL.

I've escaped form the prission with out the guards notice me
once you leave of course they will find out you escaped


how do you sneak\steal
cause form what your saying it sounds like to be honest you suck at it. (when i say you i meant the person you play)

You should also devise an outlaw system.

I mean how can you be a notorius criminal without being seen once or twice.

The law has to chase you.

Better watch out for that posse of Town Watch or Imperial Legionnaires.

Then again I did get chased by a few town watch from Bruma when they saw me trying to escape. They stopped once I made it to County Chorrol. Kinda wierd.

I wouldnt mind there being a system a bit like that in GTA, where there is a "crime meter" that increases when you do crimes and slowly decreases over time. And have guards activity increase and decrease accordingly.

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
THIS IS MY MOST IMPORTANT RULE FOR ME YOU SHOULD FINALLY BE ABLE TO BREAK OUT OF JAIL AND ESCAPE WITHOUT ANY GUARDS KNOWING AND TRYING TO ARREST YOU, YOU CAN HIDE OUT IF YOU DO ESCAPE AND WAIT IT OUT, NO MORE BEING CAUGHT THE INSTANT YOU WALK OUT OF THAT CELL.

It should be like fable 1 where after commiting crimes you have to pay or wait till they forget. Even if they realise you've escaped straight away not all of the guards will recognise you. Then you can use speech to mislead them.

I agree with crimes being confined to one town/city/county.

An example of very poor crime mechanics in Oblivion is the way you could kill someone in Bruma, escape then have the guards in frickin' Leyawiin know exactly what you did.
Also, have you ever killed an Imperial Legion Forester who is hunting deer in the most peripheral region of Cyrodiil? 1040 septims on your head for that. Who told the authorities? One of the deer that escaped perhaps. Or the one of the butterfly animations.

The crime aspect(stealing,assassinating,killing) needs a serious improvement over Oblivion's:

No more all-knowing guards. Guards shouldn't know everything. If you assasult someone, they should have to tell the guard that you assaulted them before a bounty is placed(unless the guard witnesses it). Kill them before they reach the guard = No bounty.

The guard should chase you to the last place he saw you. Run around the corner and he should run to the corner. If he gets to the corner and you are nowhere to be seen,then he should search the area for a minute. If he was the only guard chasing you,then he should be the only one that knows what you look like.

Each town should have a sort of guard office where crime reports are written or whatever. Only 'til a guard reports who you are to that office, then should you get a bounty on your head. Kill the guard before he reaches it should prevent this.

If you have a smallish bounty(<300) guards should have difficulty recognising you. Wearing a hood and keeping a distance should stop them noticing you.

Any fines you pay should be collected in a chest in a guarded chest at the top of a guard tower. This chest should be lootable.

Display cases should be smashable, though this should make some noise and alert people.

Like mentioned above,castles should be absolutely loaded with expensive junk. Jesus, when I plan a robbery on a castle full of guards, I want more than 600 septims. Also, silvery cutlery should be worth a lot. A silver tankard should sell for 20 septims. Silver forks should be worth around 5.

The Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood/Morag Tong should break you out of prison or at least attempt to(if you are a member). What kind of poncy guild lets one of their members rot away in a cell? This should increase your bounty once the guards realise you're missing.

Dressing up as a guard should be a legitimate disguise. It should allow you access to guard towers and such. Other guards should be slightly suspicious of you though.

Named Guards.
"Skingrad Guard" just doesn't cut it.
Randomly generated names, but all guards have a standard skill set. Would do it for me.
That way you know who guards where, who likes/hates you, yadda yadda.

NordFtw wrote:Named Guards.
"Skingrad Guard" just doesn't cut it.
Randomly generated names, but all guards have a standard skill set. Would do it for me.
That way you know who guards where, who likes/hates you, yadda yadda.

the problem with that is that random genrated names tend to lead to confusing more so when you can kill them and a new one takes their place

if you obey the law then that should not be a problem but if you go on killing sprees then it could be unrealistic

the way i say is have guards only have first names

mars wrote:Apparently we won't be able to talk to "unimportant" NPCs anymore so I suppose only quest involved people will have dialogue now. So there's no need for named guards.

?? link?

Perhaps guards should have truncheons, or other weapons that knock you out as opposed to killing you. That way if you stole an apple, you aren't gunned down with 90 arrows, beheaded, and whatever else. That infuriated me.

Da_BossMaN69 wrote:I dont want every person carrying around 1000 septims every where they go, what i want is this.

NEW CRIME SYSTEM
1. Every person who is described as "rich" has 1000 septims, MINIMUM, in a chest located in their house somewhere, it will be hard-very hard locked.
2. When a person manages to steal the money from the chest, the town guard will go searching for who ever did it, they will try to find the key to the chest on some person, and they could suspect you if you act suspicious. This lets you pin the blame on others
3. Once deemed suspicious you have to leave town and lay low.
4. The more you steal the more the guards investigate and question you, you'll have to leave for a considerable amount of time
5. Lower ranking members of society have no guards and less money.
6. Murders are bigger this time around, if you get away with it the guards will again ask questions and suspect you, but you can pin the blame on others.
7. Murdering/Stealing from the local count/duke/king/etc will have the whole town guard on alert and you will leave for a very long time
8. As an alternative to fleeing the city you can bribe guards or befriend the count/captain/guard to look the other way if you commit a crime.
8. The jurisdiction of your crimes will only pertain to the town it happened in, no other town/city will be aware of what you did

THIS IS MY MOST IMPORTANT RULE FOR ME YOU SHOULD FINALLY BE ABLE TO BREAK OUT OF JAIL AND ESCAPE WITHOUT ANY GUARDS KNOWING AND TRYING TO ARREST YOU, YOU CAN HIDE OUT IF YOU DO ESCAPE AND WAIT IT OUT, NO MORE BEING CAUGHT THE INSTANT YOU WALK OUT OF THAT CELL.

I agree with the concept of what you're saying. Not the exact details, but those can be changed or whatever.

The summary is (some of my own ideas):
Make rich people rich and poor people poor
Poor - Middle class can't afford much security beyond locked doors
Rich - Very Rich can have a lot of security
Guards shouldn't be "psychic"
Petty crimes should only apply to one city/county
Large Crimes should spread based on the seriousness, murder might travel to a nearby city or towns, mass murder would become nationwide etc.
Breaking out of jail should be plausible
Guards should react with due force (PICK UP A VALUELESS INK POT? NOT ON MY WATCH CRIMINAL SCUM!)

mars wrote:I can't remember where I read it. But it was an official website (I think )
But it's not like they won't have any dialogue. I remember reading it'd be more like just having a rumors topic. So you activate the NPC and he just tells you...something but you can't have a conversation with them.

They have already put that into practice in Fallout so it wouldn't be surprising.

KneelBeforeZod wrote:Perhaps guards should have truncheons, or other weapons that knock you out as opposed to killing you. That way if you stole an apple, you aren't gunned down with 90 arrows, beheaded, and whatever else. That infuriated me.

BILLIE CLUBS

JockoBeans wrote:

KneelBeforeZod wrote:Perhaps guards should have truncheons, or other weapons that knock you out as opposed to killing you. That way if you stole an apple, you aren't gunned down with 90 arrows, beheaded, and whatever else. That infuriated me.

BILLIE CLUBS

YEAAAAH! Billy Clubs rule!

Also...it should depend on where you are, I think. Cruel tyrant king? Put to death for any minor infraction. Strange culty paradise place? You can do anything short of murder, no consequence, and all sorts of weirdness inbetween.

here is a real qurestion what are laws to a bunch of vikings?

I was totally turned off playing thieves forever (in Morrowind) after I robbed every single manor under the giant crab in Ald'ruhn, and came back with just a pile of 60 gp pairs of pants. Big whoop, I can kill smugglers and walk out with... a lot more. Or head into a Daedric ruin and easily slay a couple of the pinatas-of-six-figures-for-half-a-minute-of-work. What's the point of dealing with sneaking around or casting invisibility or watching for the guards when the payoff is not commensurate with the increased risk and hassle?

mars wrote:Apparently we won't be able to talk to "unimportant" NPCs anymore so I suppose only quest involved people will have dialogue now. So there's no need for named guards.

whoa whoa whoa back the hell(for lack of a using a stronger word without being banned) up are you kidding me?!?! This is the thing that made the fallout games so boring and uninteresting, I mean for crying out load Freeside had like 10 people you could talk too, it made npcs that much more important when i found one in Oblivon, like they were special and always had a story, they weren't jsut there. Cities will never be the same, forgot crime system if this is how the game turns out i might not play it as much, this is the whole background to the crime system. Without all NPCS being named we now only have predetermined rich people, we lose a middle class to steal from.

WHY WAS THIS NOT TOUCHED UPON YET?!?!

/ps. Jillian, why haley Rodger is a much better character imo in American Dad.

i think lock-picking should be in real time, like in Thief. No more freezing time while a person breaks sight of the lock for half a second.