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Okay, moving away from my extreme bias for the Nords and other Tamrielic humans, let's talk about some awesome elves...

If you could choose between any of the elven cultures (past and present), which would you rather live in and/or call "home"?

Choices would include Altmer, Chimer/Dunmer, Orsimer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Ayleids, Maormer, or Falmer (Aldmer would be a cop-out for the simple fact that all but one of these races are presumed to have originally been Aldmer).

My choice? Dwemer. Militarily strong, culturally reasonable, and otherwise extremely reclusive from other races. Were they a little insane in some regards? Yeah, sure...but they were still awesome.

probably Maomer, partly because they live in a tropical enviroment, and because we really dont know a whole lot about them...

Falmer. From the one book we have about them, you get that heroic sense as if you were reading the Illiad. Plus, snow is pretty.

In war, do you think the Dwemer would defeat the Ayleids?

I've always liked the Chimer/Dunmer because of their cool rituals and serious war domination (until recently). I would say the dwarves would be my second pick but they're kind of dead, so my second favorite is the Falmer they seem to be a real possibility now due to the resurgence of dark elves in Solstheim and probably Skyrim now. The dunmer may even adapt to become the renewed legendary falmer

Wow, that's awesome, Anarchy...I never even thought of that...what if the Dunmer living in Skyrim/Solstheim stay there long enough to evolve?

I vote Ayleidoon. City state formation, magically powerful. Not on the list though would be the Left-Handed Elves of Yokuda as squat is known of them, except that the Redguards found them formidable.

TerrorOfTheNorth wrote:In war, do you think the Dwemer would defeat the Ayleids?

Yes. A rag-tag army of slaves and Nordic warriors (and a coupl'a demigods) defeated them soundly, why not a well polished and well equipped military?

Caractacus wrote:

TerrorOfTheNorth wrote:In war, do you think the Dwemer would defeat the Ayleids?

Yes. A rag-tag army of slaves and Nordic warriors (and a coupl'a demigods) defeated them soundly, why not a well polished and well equipped military?

lol, you crack me up. A "rag-tag" army of Nordic warriors conquered both the Dwemer and Chimer at the same time, too, so...what validity do you have in that argument? I agree that the Dwemer would have ultimately won had they had warred, but because of the technology at their disposal, and their general military prowess.

TerrorOfTheNorth wrote:Nordic warriors conquered the Dwemer.

Since when?
They mysteriously disappeared.

The Dwemer and Chimer formed an alliance not too long after they were beaten and pushed the Nords back west out of Morrowind, hence why Morrowind is currently controlled by the descendants of the Chimer, the Dunmer.

The Nedes only won the war because of the Ayleids being against each other themselves. If the Ayleids were a single united kindom, the Nedes would've gotten pwned.

That's a good point. Could be argued, though.

Well, think about it! Pelinal Whitestrake would pwn one Ayleid king, and another Ayleid king would laugh. Then he would get pwned, and so on...

They were tiny little city-states, each with their own tiny little army. Out comes the united rebel slaves with an incredible group of leaders. Who wins? The gigantic army of united slaves, or the tiny little Elven army? If Umaril had actual cities that were completely under his control...Whitestrake would have been destroyed long before the slaves even thought of invading White Gold Tower. Hell, without Whitestrake, the rebellion would have lasted no more than a few months - ending with the Ayleids being the winners, considering that Whitestrake was the main power of the entire human army.

I am very pro-Ayleid. Screw you, humans! Go Umaril the Unfeathered!

King Acunasti wrote:Well, think about it! Pelinal Whitestrake would pwn one Ayleid king, and another Ayleid king would laugh. Then he would get pwned, and so on...

They were tiny little city-states, each with their own tiny little army. Out comes the united rebel slaves with an incredible group of leaders. Who wins? The gigantic army of united slaves, or the tiny little Elven army? If Umaril had actual cities that were completely under his control...Whitestrake would have been destroyed long before the slaves even thought of invading White Gold Tower. Hell, without Whitestrake, the rebellion would have lasted no more than a few months - ending with the Ayleids being the winners, considering that Whitestrake was the main power of the entire human army.

I am very pro-Ayleid. Screw you, humans! Go Umaril the Unfeathered!

Indeed, that's like saying the Patriots still would've won the Revolutionary War if Britain was located in Canada, instead of being across an ocean.

King Acunasti wrote:Well, think about it! Pelinal Whitestrake would pwn one Ayleid king, and another Ayleid king would laugh. Then he would get pwned, and so on...

They were tiny little city-states, each with their own tiny little army. Out comes the united rebel slaves with an incredible group of leaders. Who wins? The gigantic army of united slaves, or the tiny little Elven army? If Umaril had actual cities that were completely under his control...Whitestrake would have been destroyed long before the slaves even thought of invading White Gold Tower. Hell, without Whitestrake, the rebellion would have lasted no more than a few months - ending with the Ayleids being the winners, considering that Whitestrake was the main power of the entire human army.

I am very pro-Ayleid. Screw you, humans! Go Umaril the Unfeathered!

Two problems with that:

1) Whitestrake had defeated numerous other kingdoms long before lending a hand to Alessia's army
2) Skyrim entered the conflict mostly after Whitestrake was killed, mostly because it took that long for Alessia's message to get over the Jerals.

I'm not saying that war wouldn't have been longer, and indeed protracted, but...the Nords at that time were extremely powerful, and were ultimately the true influence on the war in the long run, and even if the Ayleids were united under one banner, the human population would have eventually gained the foot-hole they needed to drive them out.

TerrorOfTheNorth wrote:

Caractacus wrote:

TerrorOfTheNorth wrote:In war, do you think the Dwemer would defeat the Ayleids?

Yes. A rag-tag army of slaves and Nordic warriors (and a coupl'a demigods) defeated them soundly, why not a well polished and well equipped military?

lol, you crack me up. A "rag-tag" army of Nordic warriors conquered both the Dwemer and Chimer at the same time, too, so...what validity do you have in that argument? I agree that the Dwemer would have ultimately won had they had warred, but because of the technology at their disposal, and their general military prowess.

Any army comprised of slaves could be considered rag-tag. It's also not mentioned that the entire military force of Skyrim was involved, or exactly how large a role they played. Whitestrake and Morihaus seemed to have played the prominent role. Re-reading my above post i now see why you thought I called the Nords rag-tag, I should have placed a comma. I'd have to say that without Whitestrake and morihaus though the slaves probably would have been crushed, what with the lack of military training.

Probably. But it's one of those things that falls into the "what-if" category. "What if" the Ayleids unified themselves? "What if" the Dwemer hadn't disappeared? "What if" the Nords didn't lose their conquests because of a civil war? "What if" Talos were defeated at Sancre Tor?

I still think that the human population would have eventually overthrown the Ayleids anyhow, because of the Nords growth in power in the north and the eventual arrival of the Ra Gada in the west. But how and when they would have done so would be the mystery in that scenario.

TerrorOfTheNorth wrote:

King Acunasti wrote:Well, think about it! Pelinal Whitestrake would pwn one Ayleid king, and another Ayleid king would laugh. Then he would get pwned, and so on...

They were tiny little city-states, each with their own tiny little army. Out comes the united rebel slaves with an incredible group of leaders. Who wins? The gigantic army of united slaves, or the tiny little Elven army? If Umaril had actual cities that were completely under his control...Whitestrake would have been destroyed long before the slaves even thought of invading White Gold Tower. Hell, without Whitestrake, the rebellion would have lasted no more than a few months - ending with the Ayleids being the winners, considering that Whitestrake was the main power of the entire human army.

I am very pro-Ayleid. Screw you, humans! Go Umaril the Unfeathered!

Two problems with that:

1) Whitestrake had defeated numerous other kingdoms long before lending a hand to Alessia's army
2) Skyrim entered the conflict mostly after Whitestrake was killed, mostly because it took that long for Alessia's message to get over the Jerals.

I'm not saying that war wouldn't have been longer, and indeed protracted, but...the Nords at that time were extremely powerful, and were ultimately the true influence on the war in the long run, and even if the Ayleids were united under one banner, the human population would have eventually gained the foot-hole they needed to drive them out.

*cough, cough*
[quote=""The Song of Pelinal, Volume 4: On His Deeds""]...And, of course, at the Council of Skiffs, where all of the Paravania's armies and all of the Nords shook with fear at the storming of White-Gold, so much so that the Al-Esh herself counseled delay...[/quote]
The Nords feared the Ayleids of White Gold Tower, mate - and therefore they feared Umaril. Without Whitestrake or the Divine Bull, Umaril would have survived within the great tower and probably would have destroyed the entire rebellion itself within time. It just goes to show how big a deal that Pelinal Whitestrake was back then. Without him, the entire army would be made up of mere humans with no true motivation, as words alone cannot keep an army going for too long (Most of Alessia's army would have given up without the Crusader.)

And by the way - Pelinal's armer was said to make him as powerful as he was, plus the fact that be may have been a demigod (but then again - Umaril was a demigod as well.). I didn't think the armor was so great. If I was an Ayleid king standing beside Umaril, I'd just blast the Crusader with a powerful bolt of lightning, followed by a ball of fire, and finished off by some nice frostbite

Okay, let's turn that around..."What if" Umaril wasn't summoned and "what if" the Aurorans never came to help? The Nords were afraid of White-Gold because of Umaril, but what if he hadn't shown? None of these "what if"'s really make any kind of difference, in the end. Pelinal showed up, tore the Elven kings a new one, and left the scraps to the mortal army behind him, much the same that Umaril would have done for the Ayleids had Pelinal not arrived. "What if" Pelinal stayed patient and fought along side the human alliance, instead of rushing the Tower alone? "What if" Ysgramor had become a Demigod and lived long enough to accompany Pelinal? "What if" there were a giant quake that shook the Tower to the ground, thus making it a non-factor? lol, we could keep rolling out all these "what if" scenarios until I fingers went numb, but all we'd be doing is speculating and fantasizing...

What really happened (lore-wise) during the Alessian uprising showed the true character of the Ayleids: they were essentially greedy war-lords petty enough not to help their own kind when they needed to most, and their own Demigod proved weaker than that of Men. Had the Ayleids somehow united, and had Pelinal not shown up, and had the Nords been scared away from Umaril, and had the Ra Gada suffered the same fate centuries later, and had the...and had the...and had the...[you insert.]

The Ayleids, as a race, failed. The Nedes and the Nords have stood against the tests of time and still hold dominance over Tamriel, while the remaining Elves remain holed-up in the Southwest.

I still root for the Ayleids....

Keep in mind, my friend, that the only reason Pelinal did win was because of the so called "amazing" armor. It's too bad he remembered to put that on before he went to White Gold Tower .

The Nords did not only fear Umaril. They feared White Gold Tower! Umaril was Pelinal's equal. Don't you forget it! So they knew that Umaril could be stopped by Pelinal, or vice-versa. So what they really feared was the Ayleids themselves. It was the Heartland High Elven capital!

What's funny is that you didn't mention the part about the remaining Ayleid kings surviving and continuing the war themselves...as a mostly united group from that point onward. The Alessain Alliance still stomped them out, even after they united.

Well....there weren't many left at that point. Like I said before,

King Acunasti wrote:They were tiny little city-states, each with their own tiny little army. Out comes the united rebel slaves with an incredible group of leaders. Who wins? The gigantic army of united slaves, or the tiny little Elven army?

By that time, the humans had the advantage of numbers against the Ayleids. The remaining kings didn't really keep the war going. Some of them just gave up and lived with the humans in peace, and others fled to Valenwood. While I do think the humans SUCK, I must admit that Umaril was stupid to waste so many soldiers and Daedra on one human being. Pelinal would have won anyway, and the Ayleids would have ripped him apart with the whole of their forces at their side.

lol, I love when someone says that the humans "suck", because their history all but proves that they don't. With the exception of the Dwemer and Chimer pushing the Nords out of Morrowind, the humans have inevitably won nearly every single major conflict with the Elves, all over. From the Ra Gada eliminating the Left-Handed Elves of Yokuda, to the Nords eliminating all Elves from Skyrim, to the Nedes decisively beating the Ayleids out of Cyrodiil, and later the Imperials conquering both Valenwood and Summerset...they have shown both their military superiority through victory in battle, and their cultural superiority in lasting for thousands of years with, not just Elves, but Akivir at their doorstep.

The several races of humans have shown how much they "suck" by kicking the Elves around all over Tamriel, including a brief initial stint in the otherwise untouched Morrowind. Maybe the Elves should "man"-up and put up a good fight for a change, and they wouldn't have this problem of humans proving them wrong over and over again.

Moving on:

It's hard for me to choose any living Elven race, because all of the ones who've survived do things that annoy me:

If I were to say Bosmer, I'd be turned away by their general weakness in battle, and their insatiable paranoia (they're always worried someone's out to get them).
If I were to say Altmer, I'd be annoyed by their general attitude and condescending demeanor toward Men. They're a haughty, xenophobic race that views Men, however disproved, as their inferiors.
If I were to say Dumer, I'd be a whole lot more comfortable than I would be with the other two..but their smug overconfidence and the fact that at least some of them still keep slaves is what really pushed me away from them.
At last we have the Orsimer...their problem? As strong as they are in battle, they've still been bested by all surviving races of Men..although the Nords have used them as mercenaries lately.
As far as the Maormer, Left-Handed Elves, and the Falmer...there just isn't enough information about them to say either way, although two have already perished to Men.

So, when it's boiled down, IMO...I have to go with the only sensible Elven race, that being the Dwemer...which is a shame, because they perished like so many others.