What makes you mad in Skyrim?

[Aarah]

Ah I see! Oh well, the Imperials will just have to take it! I hate that. There, we're back on topic!

Back to maddening things! Theres too many dragons. I keep trying to get to Rorikstead without a flippin dragon butting in, but no. Ive tried approaching from 3 different directions now and theres always one, in fact today there were two at the same time. The carriage driver doesnt 'go' there, not even for a bribe. Will just have to suck it up and fight the pesky thing one day ( the dragon, not the driver).

[AbsentLunchbox]

I hate, hate, hate the Blades. I just think the attitudes and personality of Delphine and Esbern are horrible.

[DZforTHREE]

I hate that Skyrim came so close to being the best game I have ever played. The world that was built in Skyrim is second to none, truly a dream come true to an RPG'er; though, somehow it still manages to feel like it wasn't made with the RPG player in mind. The aesthetic part of Skyrim is the best I have ever played, and the controls are much improved from Oblivion, but, on what really matters the story, and questline, Skyrim does fall short. First off there are no "guilds" in this game which is sort of disappointing. There are "factions", but nothing where you have a guild hall in each town or that sort of thing. The factions that they do have were disappointing to me as well. Most factions feel rushed, and have no build up. It's really classic story telling. You have beggining, rising action, a climax, falling action, and conclusion. Skyrim seems to go like this: 1) Character joins faction 2) Character does boring gather relic from cave quest 3) Character is only hope for faction 4) Character saves faction, and now has dominion over said faction. (The MQ isn't even this fulfilling.) The point is that in Oblivion the guilds and factions meant something, because it forced some emotional connection between my character, and the members of the guild. In Skyrim I'm lucky to know the names of the people in my faction let alone care about there well being.

[Raity]

Ok, here we go:
- All questlines are too short
- Too easy to join factions
- Choices made by the player don't matter - quests/questlines wont take different turns based on your decisions, you can't fail them, you can't betray anyone
- Essentials (beside it being hand holding on Bethesda's part, it is impossible to eliminate witnesses, as they pop up again to fight you in a manner of seconds, not even going unconscious for a few days, immersion killing)
- Condescending/oblivious NPCs - You're daft, mundane, and stuck at it. Nothing you can do to change it - you can be the archmage of Winterhold, the savior of Skyrim, a war veteran, or just generally an all around intimidating fellow, but everyone will treat you like the dirt you were at level 1. This makes it impossible to stay immersed in any character that isn't a barbarian/sellsword/idiot
- Dialogue options that make you seem daft in the first place
- Mundane quests - go here, fetch/kill this - nothing interesting ever happens in Skyrim, there's no painter stuck in his own painting, no local nut suspecting a conspiracy against him, nothing.
- Dragons are too common
- Not able to purchase a house without killing someone... I mean, really? I have to clear out your city of drug dealers/slay a dragon/fight a war/stop the awakening of an ancient necromancer/ fight a group of angry forsworn/bandits etc. just to be able to buy a home?
- Easy puzzles
- Tiny, unconvincing cities
- Lack of unarmed/athletics skill trees
- Again, lack of recognition for doing anything - saving Skyrim (hey, thanks bro, now, no lollygagging), killing the emperor (yeah, sure you can join the legion), finishing the civil war (noone seems to notice it being over) etc.
- The Blades
- Kodlak dies? Meh. Aren dies? Meh. I have to kill Mercer? Fine, why not. Nothing emotionally engaging ever happens.

[Finn Wolfshorn]

You know what doesn't really make me mad but annoys me nevertheless? Skyrim's way of converting all clothes and armour you find/buy/loot into the models fitting the player's gender, making it impossible to cross-dress. So much roleplaying potential mindlessly squandered...

[dzio]

Yes! I loved all the weird outfits you could create in Morrowind, and even in Oblivion you could have you female PC wear pants (sadly, no more colourful skirts for the guys).

[Raynil dralas]

You know what doesn't really make me mad but annoys me nevertheless? Skyrim's way of converting all clothes and armour you find/buy/loot into the models fitting the player's gender, making it impossible to cross-dress. So much roleplaying potential mindlessly squandered...

I used to put skirts on my male characters anyway, it looks sort of like combat robes instead of the full mage set, perfect for battlemages and nightblades

Not to mention redoran guards wear skirts and it looks badass, i think imperial guards do as well.

I really miss the customization from morrowind I like to make my characters look abit different and it was so much more fun in morrowind where i could have 2 different pauldrons on or some armor over clothes and such. Now in skyrim every bodies characters look the same.

[Saara The Man]

What makes me mad? Just this simple thing called Lydia.

Because she just has to throw all my nice things down the shelves, tables and all the rest of the places where I have carefully, painfully placed them.
She gets the kicks form doing so.
She must.

[Aarah]

I agree. And shes supposed to be your housecarl i.e. make life easier.
I want to evict her from my house but, short of killing her, I think shes there for good.
I just bought a new bedroom for my house and eagerly went upstairs to see my private haven. Nice bed, chest, weapons plaque...and Lydia, drinking a beverage at my little seating area. I was outraged, surely there must be some 'stay out of your Thane's room' in their programming. I had to tell her to wait in her own damn room.
She got killed by bandits in my very first outting with her and I thought she musnt be much good, but then realised that she had been in range of my fireball spell so id actually killed her myself. I thought, 'hmmm, she wont be roaming round my room now!' I subsequently reloaded to get her back - purely to carry the heavy dragon bones!

[dzio]

I have no solution for Lydia acting like she's been raised in a barn by a band of trolls, but fighting with her works much better if you're not a magic user or archer. Seriously, take her out when you're a warrior, she can be surprisingly helpful.

[DikaSmausha]

I think the reason that some of the guilds (The College, The companions) seemed bad was because of the fact that they only had a guild building in one town. In previous games, these two guilds had a foothold in each city.That makes the guilds seem empty. I am a fan of the Thieves Guild in Skyrim, and the Brotherhood, because they are supposed to be secretive. But the other two guilds needed more as they didn't involve criminal activity.

[Yaije]

According to the wiki:

Max level for Dwemer Automatons: Level 36 (Dwarven Centurion Master)
Max level for Draugr: Level 34 (Draugr Death Overlord)
Max level for Daedra: Level 30 (Storm Atronach) - 46 for Dremoras, but they are considered NPCs and are therefore affected by perks.
Max level for Ash Spawns: Level 40 (Ash Spawn Immolator)

So, unless you play a modded game that increases enemy levels, Illusion spells will work against pretty much everything if you invested the perks. If a mod changes that, don't blame it on the skill.

Very nice, now please point to another skill that requires not only near full perk investment and the equivalent of dual casting to retain it's usefulness. I don't mean optimum effectiveness or maximum output, I mean not being useless. The fact that illusion is the only combat skill that has to jump through these hoops so enemies aren't immune is [&@%!] up.

Yes I blame the skill, alongside the way the magic magnitude system is done for the spells. I think it's a load of crap that you can specialize that much into the skill and at some point run into any enemies that are still beyond your ability to compel (I don't mean pretty much everything I mean every damned thing).

You don't need to keep perking out destruction to make fire still hurt a bandit just because he's 5 levels higher than the bandit in the last room. Don't need to perk out conjuration to make your flame atronach still appear and die in your name. You do have to do that if you want to keep using calm/fear/rage beyond level 15.

[CBR JGWRR]

Very nice, now please point to another skill that requires not only near full perk investment and the equivalent of dual casting to retain it's usefulness. I don't mean optimum effectiveness or maximum output, I mean not being useless. The fact that illusion is the only combat skill that has to jump through these hoops so enemies aren't immune is [&@%!] up.

Yes I blame the skill, alongside the way the magic magnitude system is done for the spells. I think it's a load of crap that you can specialize that much into the skill and at some point run into any enemies that are still beyond your ability to compel (I don't mean pretty much everything I mean every damned thing).

You don't need to keep perking out destruction to make fire still hurt a bandit just because he's 5 levels higher than the bandit in the last room. Don't need to perk out conjuration to make your flame atronach still appear and die in your name. You do have to do that if you want to keep using calm/fear/rage beyond level 15.

The old days where you just had to achieve 100% spell effectiveness and level 25 strength spells were much better in that regard...

[Belthazor]

According to the wiki:

Max level for Dwemer Automatons: Level 36 (Dwarven Centurion Master)
Max level for Draugr: Level 34 (Draugr Death Overlord)
Max level for Daedra: Level 30 (Storm Atronach) - 46 for Dremoras, but they are considered NPCs and are therefore affected by perks.
Max level for Ash Spawns: Level 40 (Ash Spawn Immolator)

So, unless you play a modded game that increases enemy levels, Illusion spells will work against pretty much everything if you invested the perks. If a mod changes that, don't blame it on the skill.

Very nice, now please point to another skill that requires not only near full perk investment and the equivalent of dual casting to retain it's usefulness. I don't mean optimum effectiveness or maximum output, I mean not being useless. The fact that illusion is the only combat skill that has to jump through these hoops so enemies aren't immune is [&@%!] up.

Yes I blame the skill, alongside the way the magic magnitude system is done for the spells. I think it's a load of crap that you can specialize that much into the skill and at some point run into any enemies that are still beyond your ability to compel (I don't mean pretty much everything I mean every damned thing).

You don't need to keep perking out destruction to make fire still hurt a bandit just because he's 5 levels higher than the bandit in the last room. Don't need to perk out conjuration to make your flame atronach still appear and die in your name. You do have to do that if you want to keep using calm/fear/rage beyond level 15.

Alright. Do you invest perks into weapon and armor skills when you play your warrior? Probably, because if you didn't, you wouldn't do much damage or get much protection. Plus, those are a warrior's main skills, so it makes sense to invest perks into that. When you play your mage, I'm sure you invest at least into the cost reduction perks, because if you don't, you won't have enough magicka to use your spells in a viable way or even at all.

If Illusion is one of your major skills - and if you want to be able to use it against every enemy - then it makes no sense at all not to invest into it. Your spells don't stop to work all of a sudden once you reach the higher levels if you haven't put perks into it. But you'll be stuck to use it against low level enemies, which will still appear when you're level 81. Illusion isn't really that much different than your other combat skills. If you want to keep using it effectively at high levels, you will have to invest perks into it.

I'm not saying the skill is perfect, because it surely isn't. But it's still a lot better than it was in Oblivion, where once you reached level 25, it really became useless, since every enemy was too high level after that.

[Raynil dralas]

According to the wiki:

Max level for Dwemer Automatons: Level 36 (Dwarven Centurion Master)
Max level for Draugr: Level 34 (Draugr Death Overlord)
Max level for Daedra: Level 30 (Storm Atronach) - 46 for Dremoras, but they are considered NPCs and are therefore affected by perks.
Max level for Ash Spawns: Level 40 (Ash Spawn Immolator)

So, unless you play a modded game that increases enemy levels, Illusion spells will work against pretty much everything if you invested the perks. If a mod changes that, don't blame it on the skill.

Very nice, now please point to another skill that requires not only near full perk investment and the equivalent of dual casting to retain it's usefulness. I don't mean optimum effectiveness or maximum output, I mean not being useless. The fact that illusion is the only combat skill that has to jump through these hoops so enemies aren't immune is [&@%!] up.

Yes I blame the skill, alongside the way the magic magnitude system is done for the spells. I think it's a load of crap that you can specialize that much into the skill and at some point run into any enemies that are still beyond your ability to compel (I don't mean pretty much everything I mean every damned thing).

You don't need to keep perking out destruction to make fire still hurt a bandit just because he's 5 levels higher than the bandit in the last room. Don't need to perk out conjuration to make your flame atronach still appear and die in your name. You do have to do that if you want to keep using calm/fear/rage beyond level 15.

Alright. Do you invest perks into weapon and armor skills when you play your warrior? Probably, because if you didn't, you wouldn't do much damage or get much protection. Plus, those are a warrior's main skills, so it makes sense to invest perks into that. When you play your mage, I'm sure you invest at least into the cost reduction perks, because if you don't, you won't have enough magicka to use your spells in a viable way or even at all.

If Illusion is one of your major skills - and if you want to be able to use it against every enemy - then it makes no sense at all not to invest into it. Your spells don't stop to work all of a sudden once you reach the higher levels if you haven't put perks into it. But you'll be stuck to use it against low level enemies, which will still appear when you're level 81. Illusion isn't really that much different than your other combat skills. If you want to keep using it effectively at high levels, you will have to invest perks into it.

I'm not saying the skill is perfect, because it surely isn't. But it's still a lot better than it was in Oblivion, where once you reached level 25, it really became useless, since every enemy was too high level after that.

I think what's most annoying is Illusion has to be a big focus of your build if you intend to use it otherwise its totally useless, for example if I were to make a rogue build that used abit of illusion it'd soon become totally redundant unless i put all my perks into it (something i wouldn't want to do for what is essentially a minor skill of that build) Its one thing I really hate about skyrims perk system, so many skills are pretty much useless without perks meaning to truly realize many build you have to take the character to rather high levels with heavy perk investment in minor skills too for it to truly work.

[Yaije]

Thread getting derailed in trying to prove illusion isn't as big a gripe as other things. Really?

Belthazor, in oblivion, the max effectiveness was actually limitless assuming you had 100% spell effectiveness. Basically if you wore no armor whatsoever you could make a magnitude 25 spell continue to work regardless of whether you targeted a random NPC, begger, guard, or Heironymous Lex (not sure about that last one named essential character all). Even at maximum proficiency in armor, you would still only be at 95% effectiveness for spells and thus render you illusions (and 100% camo spells) mostly useless.

Without perks, at level 20 take Flames, an iron dagger, and rage into a fight. Which one doesn't do anything. If the target is the same level as you... rage does nothing. Hell that's still assuming the target is a bear/sabertooth/living npc. It takes 100 illusion and the master perk to make it even function normally against probably half the things you'll run across in your adventures. Imagine if the same was true for destruction spells or weaponry.

The Dovakiin was definitely not supposed to be an illusionist. Sad as it is, in the basic game it's really just a side skill you're not really supposed to focus on from the start if you wish to play the quests

Spoiler:

how many quest lines throw you into undead infest keeps/dungeons/caves.

For leveling, you need to watch out when you level out in the middle of your adventures (lest you suddenly start spawning dungeons with level 10+ before you can qualify for the perks to increase the effectiveness of spells). It's such a drastic change from say, spitting fire/arrows or swinging steel which just incorporates more sprinting, dodging, and blocking while you chink away at the bigger guys. (cause you know... those will still do their listed effect rather than just feed you the "target is too powerful" line)

Spoiler:

and when you ARE maxed out and still run into things that require dual casting or even flat out resist even dual cast spells!? It's just too much. Better to just take up alchemy and constantly wear fortify alchemy attire and carry a huge supply of blisterwort, fly amanita, and falmer ear and apply you're possibly superior frenzy effect via dagger and arrow. Really full perks required and possibly triple cost to affect almost every foe you meet. Should be Full perks and dual cast to affect everything you ever find and any possible beings of otherworldly power transcending mortal restraints.

[DikaSmausha]

I agree. Illusion can be amazing if it works.

[Drone414]

The most annoying thing for me.... Would probably be getting wrecked by random trolls when I first start playing... Always happens.

[Drayvon]

-

[CBR JGWRR]

You can still pick a class, it's just not a defined step in character creation anymore.

[Raynil dralas]

You can still pick a class, it's just not a defined step in character creation anymore.

No you can't. You can play the game a certain way but barring a few racial differences every character starts out with virtually the same stats, picking a class meant that the skills that class actually uses start with a big headstart making the class "work" straight away rather than 20 levels later when ive built up the class skills and perks.

[dzio]

I see it differently - if you can choose the class and get some bonuses right from the start, it looks like your character became what they were best predisposed to be. But if everyone starts from the same position, it looks like your character became what they wanted to be, and now have to work on succeeding. I prefer the latter, it implies a greater degree of choice and fits well with the whole "you can be whatever you want" theme of all TES games.

That said, I'm not so happy about there being no individual differences between starting characters. I'd prefer to have some variety here, so you could be a sneaky Orc, a dumb Altmer or a magic-obsessed Khajiit. There should be an option to give your character some small individual strengths and weaknesses, would be very helpful with roleplaying and could also help with your "class" choice from level 1.

That's the whole problem - the character creation mechanic in Skyrim treats your character like a blank slate, like they have no history before the game begins. That's not a good idea, because while I can imagine that they haven't decided what they want to be yet (so no class choice and no class bonuses), they definitely didn't spring into existence as fully grown adults, so there should be a way to express their earlier life history with game mechanics.

[Yaije]

I'd have liked something like the Tag thing in fallout 3 and New Vegas. Get a *minor* bonus to specific skills and maybe something extra in container at the start or something.

Spoiler:

novice/apprentice spell tomes for magic schools. A couple choices of weapons for each weapon type. A supply of crafting materials or something related to a given skill choice.

[dzio]

Small adjustment of skills - yes, extra gear - no. The PC is a prisoner in rags, on their way to the execution. They don't have any gear and if there was something appropriate for them in the first chest they see, it would be too much of a happy coincidence. The chest should have items that make sense for the location, like potions in a lab or a dagger in the armory, not "whatever this character would find most useful, no matter where we are".

[Yaije]

The chest could be in Riverrun for all it matters or at the guardian stone. Helgen though.. is already a chest of sorts.

Spoiler:

what don't you get out of your trip through the place? Heavy Armor if you follow Hadvar, spell tomes, and crafting materials?