Was the "ball dropped" in regards to guilds?

[CreeperX]

That's really a problem the Thalmor as a whole have, you're never allowed to agree, sympathize with or support them and you aren't really given much reason to. More work was needed in certain areas of the game, not sure I can add much more.

Indeed. At that point I had actually no idea who the heck were Thalmor since I did that questline really early but you're right. They are portrayed in a very black & white way which is kind of disappointing when compared to Empire and Stormcloacks. Those factions actually make you think since you're not forced to act against them.
Also, it's kind of retarded how the Thalmor don't seem to recognize or care if you're an elf or not. Ondolemar actually explains to you about bosmer even if you ARE bosmer. Pretty lol. I would have loved to create an altmer (or some other mer) who's a Thalmor sympathizer but that's pretty impossible.

Yeah the fact that you have to work against them, angering them so much that they put a mark out on your name, for the Main Quest solidifies their role as the 'enemy' or 'villain' in the game, even when they aren't an 'evil' faction, per se. It's a bit limiting, for an RPG of the stature of The Elder Scrolls.

Agreed.

[Evil-i]

Was the "ball dropped"? No. It was power-driven into the Earth's core.

This is a trend I've been noticing during the last few years, especially from game studios who should know better. For instance, Rockstar really laid an egg with their release of GTA IV. The sandbox GTAs have always had immersive and interesting story-telling, but somehow that didn't carry over into the latest installment. Much the same can be said of Skyrim, compared to Oblivion and Morrowind.

Eye candy is fun, and important, up to a point. But great story telling is what carries a game from start to finish, and makes the journey enjoyable, gratifying and worthwhile.

[OblivionDuruza]

But not impossible as you say CreeperX, it's fairly easy to avoid the Main Quest and thus avoid getting in the Thalmor's bad books. Then there's Ondolemar, with whom you can become friendly by completing his quest, and you can always use Calm spells to simulate the effects of 'revealing your true Thalmor identity' to other agents. You can even rationalise the Main Quest and Mages Guild by reasoning that you are a 'double agent' or a higher agent of the Thalmor working undercover, or that Ancano is acting rogue and must be stopped in the Thalmor's interests, not only to gain the trust and eventual control of the College. And of course you can acquire and wear the Robes and/or Gilded Elven Armour!

[CreeperX]

Eye candy is fun, and important, up to a point. But great story telling is what carries a game from start to finish, and makes the journey enjoyable, gratifying and worthwhile.

Nothing to add to his. Wholly agree.

But not impossible as you say CreeperX, it's fairly easy to avoid the Main Quest and thus avoid getting in the Thalmor's bad books. Then there's Ondolemar, with whom you can become friendly by completing his quest, and you can always use Calm spells to simulate the effects of 'revealing your true Thalmor identity' to other agents. You can even rationalise the Main Quest and Mages Guild by reasoning that you are a 'double agent' or a higher agent of the Thalmor working undercover, or that Ancano is acting rogue and must be stopped in the Thalmor's interests, not only to gain the trust and eventual control of the College. And of course you can acquire and wear the Robes and/or Gilded Elven Armour!

Those are nice ideas and it's indeed possible by roleplaying. I'm actually doing something resembling that with my current altmer character since he's trying not to pick any sides and couldn't give a rat's... behind... of the Blades and such XD.
And I actually like Ondolemar so both of my characters have ended up being pals with him .
I was mostly referring to the main quest which pretty much forcefeeds you that we're supposed to act against the Thalmor and makes it difficult to view them as anything else but "evil". The mechanics aren't there in the sense that you could actually really be their supporter (unless you use a console command and add yourself to their faction =P), nor does the game really give you any reason to be, not offering enough food for thoughts. But indeed it's possible to roleplay and create different scenarious so it wouldn't be so black & white.

[bushwhacker2k]

But not impossible as you say CreeperX, it's fairly easy to avoid the Main Quest and thus avoid getting in the Thalmor's bad books. Then there's Ondolemar, with whom you can become friendly by completing his quest, and you can always use Calm spells to simulate the effects of 'revealing your true Thalmor identity' to other agents. You can even rationalise the Main Quest and Mages Guild by reasoning that you are a 'double agent' or a higher agent of the Thalmor working undercover, or that Ancano is acting rogue and must be stopped in the Thalmor's interests, not only to gain the trust and eventual control of the College. And of course you can acquire and wear the Robes and/or Gilded Elven Armour!

Oh-ho, good role-playing tactics! It's a shame that all Thalmor Robes give a measly 12% destruction discount though, it pretty much guarantees they won't be that useful outside of role-playing and aesthetic purposes.

Looks like my Altmer Mage is going to get more specialization in illusion

[enyamerT]

But not impossible as you say CreeperX, it's fairly easy to avoid the Main Quest and thus avoid getting in the Thalmor's bad books.

This isn't guaranteed. I have one character (a "paladin" type) who avoided the main quest line (never went Bleak Falls Barrow), and was trying to do everything "moral and legal" and still wound up with the Thalmor Hit Squad coming after her. I could find no direct reason why the Thalmor would hate me, other than possibly that I did the first quest to join the Legion (and of course that I'm one of those degenerate humans...)

[unokitsune]

Was the "ball dropped"? No. It was power-driven into the Earth's core.

This is a trend I've been noticing during the last few years, especially from game studios who should know better. For instance, Rockstar really laid an egg with their release of GTA IV. The sandbox GTAs have always had immersive and interesting story-telling, but somehow that didn't carry over into the latest installment. Much the same can be said of Skyrim, compared to Oblivion and Morrowind.

Eye candy is fun, and important, up to a point. But great story telling is what carries a game from start to finish, and makes the journey enjoyable, gratifying and worthwhile.

I agree. They went from San Andreas ((arguably the best Grand Theft Auto game)) to IV and they needed a game addition "The ballad of Gay Tony" to make it halfway decent.

Then there is Dragon Age, Origins is arguably the best out of the current 2.

In the case of TES Oblivion is better than Skyrim. Fanboys ruined morrowind for me with "MORROWIND RULES, EVERY OTHER GAME SUCKS, HOW DARE YOU NOT PLAY MORROWIND YOU ARE A LOOSER!!!!"

Recently there is Saints Row. Saints Row 2 is quite possibly the best of the 3 games. 2 allows you to play as a female. 3 does to but you start off the game as a male and they never refer to you in 3 as a female even if you have a female body and voice set. 2 doesn't make that mistake and there is so much more to do. More outfit choices more activities and more vehicles in 2.

Lately more and more games focus on "pretty graphics" and not "good story" or even a good balance. Skyrim is pretty disappointing in that regard. I was beyond hoping they would continue the success they had when they did the Shivering Isles.

Guilds in skyrim? HI YOU ARE A PRODIGY! YOU ARE NOW OUR LEADER AFTER YOU DO A SERIES OF FETCH AND KILL QUESTS FOR US! WELCOME!

At least in the legion and stormycloaks you had ranks. They weren't much compared to say Oblivion though.

[OblivionDuruza]

A positive is that an Altmer wearing the Thalmor robes can walk around the embassy for the Main Quest unquestioned, so you can pretend that you're only pursuing and eventually 'freeing' Esbern to get inside the Blades and destroy them when the time comes, after averting the Alduin crisis and continuing the Civil War.

This isn't guaranteed. I have one character (a "paladin" type) who avoided the main quest line (never went Bleak Falls Barrow), and was trying to do everything "moral and legal" and still wound up with the Thalmor Hit Squad coming after her. I could find no direct reason why the Thalmor would hate me, other than possibly that I did the first quest to join the Legion (and of course that I'm one of those degenerate humans...)

That's true, you can antagonise them through dialogue, fairly easily some would say. I tend to just avoid them as much as possible, and if the situation breaks down, use a Pacify effect spell, from the Illusion school.

[Lymond]

I started coming to UESP for help and information. I was probably playing coming here for help with Oblivion for about a year before I even noticed there was a forum section. Since Skyrim I find myself drawn to the forum as a way of essentially sharing experiences and points of view. I spend an inordinate amount of time playing the game and yet it is not something my friends or co-workers want to really hear about.

I mention all of this because I think this has been a more than usually interesting post to follow. Talking about the quality of the guilds gets to some essential aspects of what people get out of playing video games. The forums have shown me how ithe same game can be different for each person. I know as well how my initial views have changed as I have played the game. Looking forward to the post on Second Impressions of Skyrim.

Before I ramble on even further... I have an actual point that relates to this thread. Compared to Morrowind and Oblivion the guilds in Skyrim are lacking. Not terrible, just too short and unengaging character-wise. Still, the beauty of Skyrim is that it is a world unto it's own and it has enough plusses that even with the lesser guild quality this is, for me, my favorite video game of all-time.

[bushwhacker2k]

In the case of TES Oblivion is better than Skyrim. Fanboys ruined morrowind for me with "MORROWIND RULES, EVERY OTHER GAME SUCKS, HOW DARE YOU NOT PLAY MORROWIND YOU ARE A LOOSER!!!!"

Yeah, the basic gameplay is becoming much more polished from Daggerfall -> Morrowind -> Oblivion -> Skyrim, but I do actually think Morrowind did many things better than Oblivion/Skyrim.

Recently there is Saints Row. Saints Row 2 is quite possibly the best of the 3 games. 2 allows you to play as a female. 3 does to but you start off the game as a male and they never refer to you in 3 as a female even if you have a female body and voice set. 2 doesn't make that mistake and there is so much more to do. More outfit choices more activities and more vehicles in 2.

I haven't actually played three but I loved 2 and 1 was actually pretty crappy despite having good voice actors.

Lately more and more games focus on "pretty graphics" and not "good story" or even a good balance. Skyrim is pretty disappointing in that regard. I was beyond hoping they would continue the success they had when they did the Shivering Isles.

Really, it seems like the AAA industry is becoming more and more built on shoveling crap into people's mouths and people thanking them for it while getting angry at anyone that points it out. Faith in humanity is ever diminishing >_>

Guilds in skyrim? HI YOU ARE A PRODIGY! YOU ARE NOW OUR LEADER AFTER YOU DO A SERIES OF FETCH AND KILL QUESTS FOR US! WELCOME!

Indeed :*( As things are I would have preferred guilds to be DLC (as much as I hate DLC) because then there might have been some guarantee of quality rather than something that ends up feeling tacked on.

At least in the legion and stormycloaks you had ranks. They weren't much compared to say Oblivion though.

Actually didn't know this, haven't done Legion/Stormcloaks yet.

A positive is that an Altmer wearing the Thalmor robes can walk around the embassy for the Main Quest unquestioned, so you can pretend that you're only pursuing and eventually 'freeing' Esbern to get inside the Blades and destroy them when the time comes, after averting the Alduin crisis and continuing the Civil War.

O_O Really? That's actually AWESOME that you can do that, I'd love for there to be more disguises and such!

This isn't guaranteed. I have one character (a "paladin" type) who avoided the main quest line (never went Bleak Falls Barrow), and was trying to do everything "moral and legal" and still wound up with the Thalmor Hit Squad coming after her. I could find no direct reason why the Thalmor would hate me, other than possibly that I did the first quest to join the Legion (and of course that I'm one of those degenerate humans...)

That's true, you can antagonise them through dialogue, fairly easily some would say. I tend to just avoid them as much as possible, and if the situation breaks down, use a Pacify effect spell, from the Illusion school.

Yeah, I think I'm going to legitimately try to role-play a Thalmor Mage

I started coming to UESP for help and information. I was probably playing coming here for help with Oblivion for about a year before I even noticed there was a forum section. Since Skyrim I find myself drawn to the forum as a way of essentially sharing experiences and points of view. I spend an inordinate amount of time playing the game and yet it is not something my friends or co-workers want to really hear about.

I mention all of this because I think this has been a more than usually interesting post to follow. Talking about the quality of the guilds gets to some essential aspects of what people get out of playing video games. The forums have shown me how ithe same game can be different for each person. I know as well how my initial views have changed as I have played the game. Looking forward to the post on Second Impressions of Skyrim.

Before I ramble on even further... I have an actual point that relates to this thread. Compared to Morrowind and Oblivion the guilds in Skyrim are lacking. Not terrible, just too short and unengaging character-wise. Still, the beauty of Skyrim is that it is a world unto it's own and it has enough plusses that even with the lesser guild quality this is, for me, my favorite video game of all-time.

I feel for you, I often end up making gigantic posts in forums that get totally ignored for whatever reason (TL;DR?) and no one I know RL wants to talk about stuff like this, which is a real downer for me since I give it so much thought.

I agree, the guilds really did have potential but in virtually every way possible they weren't deep and long enough.

[OblivionDuruza]

I know! It sure is nifty of Bethesda, the only problem though is that there was a minor bug:

The Thalmor Robes are supposed to function as a disguise, but this does not work, even as an Altmer. This is because only the Hooded Thalmor Robes have this effect. You can obtain one from the wizard upstairs. It is also possible to smuggle these robes into the Embassy and use them as disguise.

I'm not sure whether this has been addressed yet, or whether it will be, but basically, you'll need Hooded Robes, and it might do to bring them in advance, rather than to kill one of the Thalmor Wizards at the party for his set.

[bushwhacker2k]

I know! It sure is nifty of Bethesda, the only problem though is that there was a minor bug:

The Thalmor Robes are supposed to function as a disguise, but this does not work, even as an Altmer. This is because only the Hooded Thalmor Robes have this effect. You can obtain one from the wizard upstairs. It is also possible to smuggle these robes into the Embassy and use them as disguise.

I'm not sure whether this has been addressed yet, or whether it will be, but basically, you'll need Hooded Robes, and it might do to bring them in advance, rather than to kill one of the Thalmor Wizards at the party for his set.

I'll be sure to do that, I like seeing fun, out-of-the-box stuff like this, it should happen more often.

[General Grumble]

For me the dark brotherhood was the only set of missions which retained the humour which ran throughout Oblivion. I mean in Oblivion a lot of the missions were kind of funny or silly, tounge in cheek you could say. Skyrim seems to take itself too seriously sometimes. But yeah storylines were too short and they could have been much better but I gotta say I prefer the companions to the fighters guild but that's probably just me :p.

[bushwhacker2k]

I gotta say I prefer the companions to the fighters guild but that's probably just me :p.

I think the Fighters' Guild always came off as being somewhat mercenary, though if one had played Oblivion you'd know they're not as bad in that aspect as they could potentially be. I do agree though, the overall feel of the Companions is more characterized.

Though once again it's dragged down by lack of depth, lack of length and lack of personal characterization(do you ever see these characters do anything, other than the few who accompany you once?).

[Norroen Dyrd]

Inappropriate though it might seem, if I had to think up some complaint about Skyrims guilds, I'd have to scratch my head really hard. Must be a perversion of my character, always being thankful for what I have. But none of us is perfect.
Anyway, the only things I have to say about Skyrim's guilds are positive, so I won't say them because it won't fit in with the spirit of this thread.

[Mattbott]

Anyway, the only things I have to say about Skyrim's guilds are positive, so I won't say them because it won't fit in with the spirit of this thread.

i think you should definitely say good things about the guilds, the title is "was the ball dropped..", so you are well on topic if you say "no, and i will tell you why.."

[Norroen Dyrd]

Anyway, the only things I have to say about Skyrim's guilds are positive, so I won't say them because it won't fit in with the spirit of this thread.

i think you should definitely say good things about the guilds, the title is "was the ball dropped..", so you are well on topic if you say "no, and i will tell you why.."

Well, for one thing, I personally found the storylines enjoyable. Especially the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood.
I was rather startled by

Spoiler:

the outcome of the first assassination attempt on the Emperor

, though I had seen spoilers about it. The NPCs in this faction were also fine, especially Babette and Cicero, who in my opinion uphold the dark humour atmosphere which the Dark Brotherhood was steeped in in Oblivion.
As for the Thieves Guild, for me it was something new compared to Oblivion. It has lost its Robin Hood-esque feel, becoming more sinister and probably more like the criminal 'families' our own history has seen.
The College of Winterhold and the Companions also had their good moments regarding the plotline. For some odd reason, I liked the scene of

Spoiler:

Kodlak's funeral

, something rather new as compared to Oblivion. The NPCs in both these factions are quite interesting as far as personality goes. The kindly yet distracted Tolfdir, the cranky Colette Marence, the pro-werewolf and counter-werewolf discussions among the Companions...
On a completely irrelevant note, I also loved the distinct differences between the guild hall buildings.

[bushwhacker2k]

Inappropriate though it might seem, if I had to think up some complaint about Skyrims guilds, I'd have to scratch my head really hard. Must be a perversion of my character, always being thankful for what I have. But none of us is perfect.
Anyway, the only things I have to say about Skyrim's guilds are positive, so I won't say them because it won't fit in with the spirit of this thread.

Well, if you aren't going to be unnecessarily argumental and won't start a flame-war then I don't see why not. To improve things we have to acknowledge the good as well as the bad.

Anyway, the only things I have to say about Skyrim's guilds are positive, so I won't say them because it won't fit in with the spirit of this thread.

i think you should definitely say good things about the guilds, the title is "was the ball dropped..", so you are well on topic if you say "no, and i will tell you why.."

Well, for one thing, I personally found the storylines enjoyable. Especially the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood.
I was rather startled by

Spoiler:

the outcome of the first assassination attempt on the Emperor

, though I had seen spoilers about it. The NPCs in this faction were also fine, especially Babette and Cicero, who in my opinion uphold the dark humour atmosphere which the Dark Brotherhood was steeped in in Oblivion.
As for the Thieves Guild, for me it was something new compared to Oblivion. It has lost its Robin Hood-esque feel, becoming more sinister and probably more like the criminal 'families' our own history has seen.

Admittedly the 'getting caught' portion that happened right after the first assassination attempt was pretty interesting and I really do like the idea of picking up the pieces and rising from the ashes (did I just unintentionally reference two tropes?) in which you

Spoiler:

literally recover the guild from a fire in which most most of them die.

... Unfortunately it was still too rushed (I'm hoping that if I emphasize this enough they'll catch on), I was still at the acquaintance/total stranger feeling with half my guildmembers(this applies to EVERY guild) and then at the 'getting to know them' part for everyone else. Also I like what they tried to do with Babette, but a few things really distracted me about her: 1) the childrens' voices are pretty bad (they're not awful but it never really feels like it fits the scene and THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME VOICES...). 2) the children all look the same, the fact that there's so much slight variety to the facial features for adults allows no two characters to be just alike, but children evidently lack this feature. 3) NPCs have this staggering tendency to say the same lines again and again and again and again and it's 2012(okay it came out late 2011) and we should be past this. There are NPCs I do business with EVERY DAY that say the same things to me every day like I'm a prospective customer they've never laid eyes upon before. This makes it nearly impossible to connect with NPCs you walk past a lot.

The College of Winterhold and the Companions also had their good moments regarding the plotline. For some odd reason, I liked the scene of

Spoiler:

Kodlak's funeral

, something rather new as compared to Oblivion.

I thought that *spoilered* scene was pretty good too, actually. Something about the way they set the people up and used the space well made it work.

The NPCs in both these factions are quite interesting as far as personality goes. The kindly yet distracted Tolfdir, the cranky Colette Marence, the pro-werewolf and counter-werewolf discussions among the Companions...

To be fair, they were potentially interesting. The one huge problem dragging everything down affects this as much as anything else. You barely scratch the surface of who the NPCs are and while they come off as being interest they can't be said to be fully fleshed out, most guildmates never serve any real purpose.

On a completely irrelevant note, I also loved the distinct differences between the guild hall buildings.

As did I, BUT you'll notice in Morrowind/Oblivion each guild had several guildhalls (okay, DB didn't but it made up for it by being so damn good) and with the exception of the Thieves' Guild (no actual guildhall, which added to the feeling of the guild IMO) and the Fighters' Guild(actually had a lot of unused guildhalls and many characters you don't ever really talk to) each guildhall played a role and just about every named character had something to do. In the Mage's Guild in Oblivion each guildhall (outside of the Imperial City) specialized in a specific school of magic, which made each of them unique and useful for something else. In Skyrim there's just one master-caster for each spell school, which feels a little ridiculous that it'd be so uniform. I personally think the College should have been several times as big as it was, and fun to explore, as it is it's just a slightly larger stone-based house.

[Norroen Dyrd]

Well, if you aren't going to be unnecessarily argumental and won't start a flame-war then I don't see why not. To improve things we have to acknowledge the good as well as the bad.

I am not going to start any flame wars. There is hardly any ground for that. I quite like the game as it is, and I will stick to that opinion.
Looking for things to pick at in a game we so long expected is not a very good thing to do.
I am not irritated by minor things such as similar voices for a number of NPCs. I am pleased with the world laid out for me to explore, and one can always make up for the aforementioned details with imagination. After all, it is just a game, and there are certain conventions that should be accepted. Like in the theatre, where we only see one or two walls of a room on the scene or when the characters are speaking out loud to the audience when they are supposed to be thinking to themselves.

[bushwhacker2k]

Well, if you aren't going to be unnecessarily argumental and won't start a flame-war then I don't see why not. To improve things we have to acknowledge the good as well as the bad.

I am not going to start any flame wars. There is hardly any ground for that. I quite like the game as it is, and I will stick to that opinion.

I believe you, your post doesn't seem argumentative in any way

Looking for things to pick at in a game we so long expected is not a very good thing to do.

I don't disagree that nit-picking isn't that helpful, but at the same time the overall experience can be ruined by a few large problems or a multitude of smaller problems.

The guilds weren't bad, but Bethesda can do better than this.

I am not irritated by minor things such as similar voices for a number of NPCs.

If it stopped at that, 'similarity', then I probably wouldn't have problems either, but it's literally the same 2 voice actors (one for boys, one for girls) and they don't make any effort to sound unique at all, so it's like all the children sound and look exactly alike so I can't treat them as valid NPCs.

I am pleased with the world laid out for me to explore, and one can always make up for the aforementioned details with imagination.

Skyrim's world is much more interesting to explore than Oblivion's, which came off as samey about 5 minutes after you stepped out of the sewer grate. I'm not really disagreeing that we can make up for the details with imagination, but the line doesn't really hold up as far as increasing quality in games go. If that line was pure truth that no one could dispute then we'd still be playing games on DOS. (admittedly I still do from time-to-time )

After all, it is just a game, and there are certain conventions that should be accepted. Like in the theatre, where we only see one or two walls of a room on the scene or when the characters are speaking out loud to the audience when they are supposed to be thinking to themselves.

I'm not sure I agree but I can't really dispute this either. Can you list a few examples of what you mean we should accept?

[Sidgreen]

I disagree in that I think the thieves guild was a viable questline, I think the "Odd jobs" such as fishing and burglary should have become harder (break into a cabin similar to anises? The residents are hostile if they find you or atleast report you immediately not tell you to leave) The fact that you help regenerate the guild helps to make you feel like the guild leader but only if you do those quests before the main thieves guild (or else you are just like, let's get these done so I can get cool armor) I think the guilds should let you choose specialities (IE the thieves guild armor should have three skins (black that Delvin and co wears, Grey that you can loot from Linwe, and Brown standard. You should also be able to choose thier enchantments (To some degree) such as you choose archer and gain archery, sneak and something else, Pickpocket: pickpocket sneak and lockpick, Bandit: One handed, sneak something else, etc)

I find Delvin and Karliah to be characters you can relate to, aswell as the CoW fence (Enthir?) I have never finished the CoW questline as I find magic as a skill to be broken and either overpowered or underpowered depending on your level, The Dark brotherhood questline feels short (I wanted to assassinate several high ranking people, not stab a guy in the bannered mare before killing some orc in a basement) and when its over I feel ripped off by the lack of regeneration quests. The companions questline I did in under two hours and felt severely cheated and the questline it self did not play out like a warrior in any way. I have yet to attempt the civil war due to the amount of bug and glitches associated with taking cities and will NEVER do the bards questline as the bugs to do with the Flute, Drum and Lute would irritate the hell out of me. I cannot get patches as I have a wireless connectorless Xbox so any questline with a bug irritates me. The blades felt like a means to an end and I never took any interest in their story or ways, The greybeards also seemed fairly open and shut. The lack of personality in many characters in this game angers me. The only characters I like seem to be the three mentioned before, The Jarl of whiterun The Jarl of riften and The court wizard of riften (although I have not met every character) Also because of my stealth based playstyle and the fact no companions (even "stealthy" ones) understand that me firing a single arrow is not a charge order.

Sorry about the rant but I wanted to give my two cents, please give feedback on my presentation and such as I am new to this forum.

EDIT: when I said no companions I was refering to followers rather then the guild companions

[Abel]

I find it very annoying that you HAVE to become a guild leader/listener/arch-mage/... after you completed the questline. I just want to be a nobody.

In fact, this is what annoys me about Skyrim in general; the whole Dragonborn thingy. It was cooler when you were just a random prisoner (like in Oblivion).

[Sidgreen]

Agreed, being anonymous was the funnhest part. The fact that you are practically famous for doing nothing but being born special means that you can't roleplay at all unless you ignore the main quest, which means no shouts (not too big a problem but an aura whisper for thieves or throw voice would be very helpful, and fighting dragons with daggers is never a good call)

[Kerr]

I liked them.....
I would rather if you didn't become the leader of all of them.

[Abel]

I'm not saying I don't want to be a leader. I just find it annoying that you have no choice.