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CBR JGWRR wrote:Or maybe Mankar son of Camoran Usurper is a completely different bloke to Mankar of the Oblivion Crisis.

Uh, quite doubtful I think considering that Tar-Meena mentions the Commentaries and that they were written by Mankar Camoran at the time of Tiber Septim...

And if Mankar Camoran of the Oblivion Crisis is Camoran Usurper's son, then he missed Tiber's death by over 200 years. If anything that supports the view he's a different bloke. (unless you were actually agreeing with me)

CBR JGWRR wrote:Source for Usurper being Dragonborn? I know Mankar was, Oblivion made that clear, but I've not heard of Usurper being dragonborn.

It's a conclusion I made from his battle tactics. By the way, you shouldn't hear about someone telling you something, as your wording sounds like. It's okay to make your own interpretations of the lore.

AngryNord wrote:

CBR JGWRR wrote:Or maybe Mankar son of Camoran Usurper is a completely different bloke to Mankar of the Oblivion Crisis.

Uh, quite doubtful I think considering that Tar-Meena mentions the Commentaries and that they were written by Mankar Camoran at the time of Tiber Septim...

It doesn't really mean anything.

CBR JGWRR wrote:And if Mankar Camoran of the Oblivion Crisis is Camoran Usurper's son, then he missed Tiber's death by over 200 years. If anything that supports the view he's a different bloke. (unless you were actually agreeing with me)

Again, lore is never one hundred percent accurate, especially when it comes from those lacking in the understanding of the unmundane.

You know how you say you say something when really you wrote something on a forum like this? It's like that.

Tiber's death in 3E 38 is a known fact, as is Camoran Usurper's doings in 3E 267 when his son Mankar Camoran was born. We know a Mankar Camoran caused the Oblivion Crisis. The question is whether they're the same Mankar Camoran, which if Tar-Meena is correct, they can't be. The issue in that case is whether Tar-Meena is believable.

Being born in 3E 267 would make him about 170 years old during the Oblivion Crisis, which I think we've established is no age for an elf?

CBR JGWRR wrote:You know how you say you say something when really you wrote something on a forum like this? It's like that.

Guess you caught the bluff.

Tiber's death in 3E 38 is a known fact, as is Camoran Usurper's doings in 3E 267 when his son Mankar Camoran was born. We know a Mankar Camoran caused the Oblivion Crisis. The question is whether they're the same Mankar Camoran, which if Tar-Meena is correct, they can't be. The issue in that case is whether Tar-Meena is believable.

Off hand comment by random women? Debatable, debateable. Though if she is anything, she is scholarly.

AngryNord wrote:Being born in 3E 267 would make him about 170 years old during the Oblivion Crisis, which I think we've established is no age for an elf?

Yes, but Tiber Septim was not alive. The commentaries were written when he was.

400 years still isn't too abnormal for an elf, especially not a wizardy one like Mankar Camoran...

AngryNord wrote:400 years still isn't too abnormal for an elf, especially not a wizardy one like Mankar Camoran...

And not to mention the deep ties with a Daedric Prince..

AngryNord wrote:Being born in 3E 267 would make him about 170 years old during the Oblivion Crisis, which I think we've established is no age for an elf?

Elves can easily live to be over a hundred years old, even to thousands. Whether they live that long is another story, but they have the potential to. Heck, if you totally want to stay away from lore books that do have some conflicts in them - such as the Barenziah books - Sondas Drenim, a dunmer miner in Darkwater Crossing, mentions he had been digging up ore for "over a hundred years."
Not to mention, apparently a lot of dunmer are refugees in Skyrim; the Oblivion Crisis happened 300 years or so before Skyrim, if I remember correctly, and the Red Mountain erupted 40 years after Morrowind? Apparently the time between Morrowind and Oblivion is 7 years, I think, so... any dunmer refugees from Morrowind probably have a good bit of a years spent already. Aranea Ieneth mentions how she lead people out of harm's day when the mountain erupted, thanks to Azura's visions. Carahil in the mages guild "defeated" the lich a hundred years beforehand, and she doesn't look much over... what, 25, maybe? Granted they're not bosmer, I can't think of a bosmer right off their age started (over than Mankar), but I wouldn't think bosmer would really be any different. Plenty of proof that elves can live a long time.

I don't think you guys are getting the actual problem here. We are arguing that Mankar is too young, not too old.

Aranel wrote:

AngryNord wrote:Being born in 3E 267 would make him about 170 years old during the Oblivion Crisis, which I think we've established is no age for an elf?

Not to mention, apparently a lot of dunmer are refugees in Skyrim; the Oblivion Crisis happened 300 years or so before Skyrim, if I remember correctly, and the Red Mountain erupted 40 years after Morrowind? Apparently the time between Morrowind and Oblivion is 7 years, I think, so... any dunmer refugees from Morrowind probably have a good bit of a years spent already. Aranea Ieneth mentions how she lead people out of harm's day when the mountain erupted, thanks to Azura's visions. Carahil in the mages guild "defeated" the lich a hundred years beforehand, and she doesn't look much over... what, 25, maybe? Granted they're not bosmer, I can't think of a bosmer right off their age started (over than Mankar), but I wouldn't think bosmer would really be any different. Plenty of proof that elves can live a long time.

200 years from Oblivion to Skyrim.

Br3admax wrote:I don't think you guys are getting the actual problem here. We are arguing that Mankar is too young, not too old.

This.

Tiber's death in 3E 38 is a known fact, as is Camoran Usurper's doings in 3E 267 when his son Mankar Camoran was born. We know a Mankar Camoran caused the Oblivion Crisis. The question is whether they're the same Mankar Camoran, which if Tar-Meena is correct, they can't be. The issue in that case is whether Tar-Meena is believable.

Off hand comment by random women? Debatable, debateable. Though if she is anything, she is scholarly.
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Agreed. However, she is definitely wrong about something she says, although what that something is changes with how many Mankar Camoran's there were.

AngryNord wrote:400 years still isn't too abnormal for an elf, especially not a wizardy one like Mankar Camoran...

I have this crazy fanon thing going on in my head that maybe Mankar and Haymon are the same person. I mean, didn't Haymon's fleet sink or something? No corpse was ever found. Maybe he escaped into Oblivion and chilled for a century or two.

Br3admax wrote:Off hand comment by random women?

I wouldn't exactly say that what one of the foremost scholars at the Arcane University says is an "off hand comment", and nor that such a scholar is "random women"!!

Yeah. I don't get it. You seem kinda down on Tar-Meena. She's a useful source of knowledge in several quests in TES IV. I wouldn't dismiss her insights.

As far as him being too young, perhaps it was just an oversight? From what I understand, the writers tend to be pretty good with the timeline, but apparently uesp itself is organized far better, and is often a reference. Maybe someone made a typo that was overlooked, or some other small mistake?

I would guess that Tar-Meena was a pretty good source - she might have said it in her own "offhand" way, but someone could explain to you the basics of cloning, the economy, or evolution offhandedly. Seeing as she is one of the best scholars and is useful in multiple quests, and is far from being some random NPC.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:Yeah. I don't get it. You seem kinda down on Tar-Meena. She's a useful source of knowledge in several quests in TES IV. I wouldn't dismiss her insights.

She's a useful source of information by being the only person to support the subject in this regard? When more evidence is to the contrary, I'll dismiss this one selected piece of evidence. It's that simple. Also, I wouldn't say she gives helpful information in "several quests," the rest of which are not even related to this at all. More like a few.

Br3admax wrote:

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:Yeah. I don't get it. You seem kinda down on Tar-Meena. She's a useful source of knowledge in several quests in TES IV. I wouldn't dismiss her insights.

She's a useful source of information by being the only person to support the subject in this regard? When more evidence is to the contrary, I'll dismiss this one selected piece of evidence. It's that simple. Also, I wouldn't say she gives helpful information in "several quests," the rest of which are not even related to this at all. More like a few.

What you're implying isn't very logical. What you're essentially saying is that the keeper of the Mystic Archives in the literal capital of the world is completely incompetent.

I suppose it's possible the Arcane University would hire a witless seat warmer for that position, but considering the sheer importance of her station I'm personally tempted to put a lot of stock in what she has to say. And yes, perhaps my memory failed me. She really only factors into two or three quests in the game but she plays critical information gathering roles there. If she doesn't know the answer she'll point you to someone who does.

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:

Br3admax wrote:

Pilaf The Defiler wrote:Yeah. I don't get it. You seem kinda down on Tar-Meena. She's a useful source of knowledge in several quests in TES IV. I wouldn't dismiss her insights.

She's a useful source of information by being the only person to support the subject in this regard? When more evidence is to the contrary, I'll dismiss this one selected piece of evidence. It's that simple. Also, I wouldn't say she gives helpful information in "several quests," the rest of which are not even related to this at all. More like a few.

What you're implying isn't very logical. What you're essentially saying is that the keeper of the Mystic Archives in the literal capital of the world is completely incompetent.

I suppose it's possible the Arcane University would hire a witless seat warmer for that position, but considering the sheer importance of her station I'm personally tempted to put a lot of stock in what she has to say. And yes, perhaps my memory failed me. She really only factors into two or three quests in the game but she plays critical information gathering roles there. If she doesn't know the answer she'll point you to someone who does.

I don't see how this makes her qualified to be an absolute source on anything, especially when she is the only one who supports this claim. It doesn't matter what job she has, she is still the only one who supports this with more to the contrary. To me, it seems, supporting someone only based on their station is much more illogical, especially when others disagree with her. Especially when others are the ones that it concerns.

Based on my observations on the way people in the elder scrolls universe, the average age for a non-mage dunmer is approximately 200 years. Imperials Usually live to be around 100, Khajiit and Argonians age elude me. Nords and Bretons i assume 75-100 years, Dwemer with Mechanical augmentation 300 (which is conjecture because there is no known source for dwemer life span), Altmer and non tainted falmer 500 or so. Telvani masters usually can live forever, unless they are assassinated or poisoned, or they mess up a spell. Bosmer live about 150 years, Hist trees can live as long as they are maintained properly <hail Sithis>

I find it really interesting that this thread is commonly estimating Bosmer lifespans considerably shorter than Altmer and Dunmer - is there something in-game that suggests that?

I think it has to do with them taking "mannish wives"

And that they don't use magic to anywhere near the altmer or dunmer, and just using it is enough to extend ones life, even before you look at life extension magic, so its safe to knock a bit off for that.

Truth is, we have nothing to go on with them apart from educated guesses.

Unless they do the wild hunt thing, then i guess time doesn't really apply to them. But at that point I don't know if you can even refer to them as bosmer

Okay, I understand about the elves and all, but... how could the redguard gaiden shinji lived in the first era and more??? since owyn, from the bloodworks, says he'd known him?!
I'm sorry to resuscitate this post, lol...
peace.